Have to meet ex on Sunday to move her stuff.

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

So this Sunday my ex-wife is coming over to finally take the rest of her son's and her stuff. She asked me to go out to breakfast beforehand, which I said to text me and we'll see.

She is dating a man that wanted our marriage to break up, then they started dating, he "cheated" on her and treated her poorly, she was depressed and suicidal about her entire life and she asked me to be there for her. So I was, best I could be at least. She tried to hang out with me multiple times but ended up, basically, telling me everything wrong about us and me, treated me like crap, etc... .

Anyway, she is now dating this guy AGAIN. She is unaware of what he has said about her (I know through my best friend who was there) and that he doesn't want to take care of her kid in the long-run. I am pissed because she borrowed money from me when she should have went to him and she used me as emotional support. Now she barely talks to me about her life, just a few weeks ago she was very open. I am so confused.

The issue I have is I do not know what I am going to do if we go out to brunch. How do I even talk to her? I am not typically an angry person but this guy she is with is scum (he told his best friend he was not happy that he found someone to love before he did).

How do you talk to someone with BPD? Do I be brutally honest with how she is treating me? Is it even worth a potential fight?

What is unfair is that when I tried to confront her about her behaviors both right after she left and when we were together, she would become upset at me. After she left she said she needed someone to push her and confront her and argue; but we couldn't because she would crumple under the stress. It's illogical. I hardly even recognize her now.

[Polis_Ohio]

So this Sunday my ex-wife is coming over to finally take the rest of her son's and her stuff. She asked me to go out to breakfast beforehand, which I said to text me and we'll see.

She is dating a man that wanted our marriage to break up, then they started dating, he "cheated" on her and treated her poorly, she was depressed and suicidal about her entire life and she asked me to be there for her. So I was, best I could be at least. She tried to hang out with me multiple times but ended up, basically, telling me everything wrong about us and me, treated me like crap, etc... .

Anyway, she is now dating this guy AGAIN. She is unaware of what he has said about her (I know through my best friend who was there) and that he doesn't want to take care of her kid in the long-run. I am pissed because she borrowed money from me when she should have went to him and she used me as emotional support. Now she barely talks to me about her life, just a few weeks ago she was very open. I am so confused.

The issue I have is I do not know what I am going to do if we go out to brunch. How do I even talk to her? I am not typically an angry person but this guy she is with is scum (he told his best friend he was not happy that he found someone to love before he did).

How do you talk to someone with BPD? Do I be brutally honest with how she is treating me? Is it even worth a potential fight?

What is unfair is that when I tried to confront her about her behaviors both right after she left and when we were together, she would become upset at me. After she left she said she needed someone to push her and confront her and argue; but we couldn't because she would crumple under the stress. It's illogical. I hardly even recognize her now.

[cloudten]

You sound pretty confused.

First of all- what's your goal with her? To be friends?

If you were to be brutally honest, would she listen? Would she paint you black?

Can I ask you a hard question- why on earth did you lend her money?  You might as well kiss it goodbye because I doubt you will ever see it again. Sounds to me like you got used. She hooked you emotionally, you gave her money and now she's pushing you away again... .because she got what she needed.

Sorry- that's how I see this.

[Mr Hollande]

PO, in my ideal post BPD break up world I would do the following:

1. Don't go for breakfast with her.

2. Leave her stuff to be collected outside and don't let her in the house.

3. Write off the money you lent her and don't lend her money again.

4. What goes on with the new guy is her problem, not yours, so don't stick you oar in.

5. Don't try to talk sense with her. Ideally don't talk to her at all or the best of a dire situation keep communication minimal prior to her picking up her stuff. At this stage any communication is potential for drama. Try and spare yourself from that.

6. Go NC and stay NC!

Do that and you'll be the one who controls the situation. I know I'm not you so it's easy for me to say but this is how I would want to handle it.

[cloudten]

Nice list Mr. Hollande

I would add something about taking care of yourself.

What are you doing to take care of yourself?

[Polis_Ohio]

I lent her money because I told her many months ago I would and did not want to go back on my word. She actually has half of it for me she will bring on Sunday. I only lent her money because of her son, who I still care very, very deeply for. She needed a car to get a job and take her son places, although he stays at his fathers now.

I wouldn't toss her stuff outside, most of it is her sons and he has nothing to do with what happened. He is a major victim here, I was his father and he treated me as such. I love him like my own son (I think I don't have a kid of my own) so you can imagine how unbearable the pain is sometimes.

I tried to be friends but she keeps asking to hangout or I ask her and she either cancels or asks me last minute or, in one case, called me crying over someone being mean to her or something and went home (I couldn't hear, was out with friends). She is just all over the place; we are good friends with the same person and he tells me her feelings change daily, some days she is upset and thinks I am terrible or he is terrible then the next praising everyone.

I'm not sure if she would listen if I was brutally honest, she swears she wants people to be honest with her then when I am she gets mad or sad.

I can't go NC since we have a similar circle of friends. As for this new guy, I am not going to say anything about it unless she brings it up. Really I am mad she comes to me for support and not this guy.

I am not sure what will happen, part of me wants to go, part of me wants to not deal trying to talk to her, even as a friend. I feel like she still respects me deep down but cannot control or does not try to control how she treats people.

I don't know how to talk to someone like her; when we were married she was not like this.

As for myself I am in therapy, have worked hard on my flaws and emotional issues (still working, overcoming a decade of depression and being disowned messed me up) and I started Aikido a few weeks ago. The structure is helping me focus. I do have some women I am speaking with but I am not really dateable at the moment.

[Mr Hollande]

I lent her money because I told her many months ago I would and did not want to go back on my word. She actually has half of it for me she will bring on Sunday. I only lent her money because of her son, who I still care very, very deeply for. She needed a car to get a job and take her son places, although he stays at his fathers now.

You don't need to explain yourself to me. What's done is done. What I said was write it off and don't do it again. As harsh as it is, the son is not your problem. She knows you love the kid and she uses him to reel you in for favours. Cut the chord or she'll keep pulling it!

I wouldn't toss her stuff outside, most of it is her sons and he has nothing to do with what happened. He is a major victim here, I was his father and he treated me as such. I love him like my own son (I think I don't have a kid of my own) so you can imagine how unbearable the pain is sometimes.

I didn't say toss the stuff outside. Find out when she plans on being there and tell her the stuff will be outside for her when she arrives. You are not doing this to be vindictive. You are setting up a boundary starting with your home and you don't want her in it. Like I said above, the son will be used as a way to get to you time and again. It's a horrible thing but for your own sake you may at the very least want consider that and decide on a suitable measure. Like Cloudten said, it's about taking care of yourself.

I tried to be friends but she keeps asking to hangout or I ask her and she either cancels or asks me last minute or, in one case, called me crying over someone being mean to her or something and went home (I couldn't hear, was out with friends). She is just all over the place; we are good friends with the same person and he tells me her feelings change daily, some days she is upset and thinks I am terrible or he is terrible then the next praising everyone.

I'm not sure if she would listen if I was brutally honest, she swears she wants people to be honest with her then when I am she gets mad or sad.

I can't go NC since we have a similar circle of friends. As for this new guy, I am not going to say anything about it unless she brings it up. Really I am mad she comes to me for support and not this guy.

That's the standard practice. Do you feel better when being around that or would you like a break? If I were you I would start with telling the mutual friend that you don't want any updates on her. Not everyone gets it first time around so make sure hen does. If not you should consider his value as a friend. Give yourself some space. You've earned it!

I am not sure what will happen, part of me wants to go, part of me wants to not deal trying to talk to her, even as a friend. I feel like she still respects me deep down but cannot control or does not try to control how she treats people.

You know you don't have to go if you don't want to? Your part in the soap is over. She wrote you out of the script and you owe her nothing. You are free!

I don't know how to talk to someone like her; when we were married she was not like this.

I'll be rude and say that she was always like this when you were married. It's just that she didn't show it.

[Polis_Ohio]

She was a little like she is now when we were together. Her friends and my friends saw her change once she went to therapy and started her medication. She has PTSD and was working through a lot but our communication was difficult (both our faults) and we never talked about how she was changing.

I don't care if she is comes inside to get her stuff and I really don't see the point of not letting her in, she isn't violent and won't steal anything. She's still a person and has feelings and I am going to treat her as such. I don't ask her friend about her anymore and he would stop telling me if I asked; recently he was trying to help me by convincing her to let me see her son.

I am asking how to talk to her. Honestly, it's fairly unlikely that we will become good friends. There are still lingering feelings on both sides, she becomes irrationally mad at me for no reason. 

[Mr Hollande]

I gave you a list of what I would do so it's not a six commandments or anything. My tone can be commanding but I'm not telling you what to do. I get carried away and apologise if I seem pushy.

As for how to talk to her I can only draw on my own experience. I talked and talked and talked with my ex through devaluation, infidelity, recycles and discards. I was as clear as I could be and sometimes it sunk in but only to be horribly distorted the next day. From my perspective it was a waste of time and had I had the knowledge then that I have now I wouldn't have bothered. Hindsight and all that jazz. That's why I don't bother with her anymore. There is no point so I'm done.

The main thing is that you feel OK under the circumstances and that there's minimum drama on the day.

[hashtag_loyal]

I'll be rude and say that she was always like this when you were married. It's just that she didn't show it.

She was a little like she is now when we were together. Her friends and my friends saw her change once she went to therapy and started her medication. She has PTSD and was working through a lot but our communication was difficult (both our faults) and we never talked about how she was changing.

Polis, I understand that you are in the midst of a very stressful situation and that right now your most pressing concern is advice on how to react to the current situation. However, not long after your ex gets her stuff, you will need to begin the healing process and it is important to realize that if she is a pwBPD, her issues started long before she ever met you. Believing that she "wasn't like this in the beginning" is flawed logic that could inhibit your healing because you will be left wracking your brain wondering "what went wrong" and wondering if her problems were somehow caused or worsened by any of your own actions.

I don't think Mr. Hollande is trying to be rude; I think he is thinking about your long-term emotional health.

[cloudten]

I think it's easy to get caught up in a lot of emotion. We all want the best for you!

I can only speak for myself here---- if I knew how to talk to and deal with my pwBPD, I guarantee you I would be in that relationship, happy, and not here on this board.

Obviously, I didn't know how to speak to him in ways that were rational to him. It always seemed to me that writing it out was better even though he claimed he couldn't read well.

That being said, there was obviously still a major failure in the way we communicated. So, I really cannot offer you much advice in the way of how to communicate with her since I crashed and burned in my own r/s. I'm sorry.

[Polis_Ohio]

We met for brunch Sunday, it was actually pretty nice. We got along fairly well and joked a lot. Moving was tough, we both grew kind of quiet and reminisced a bit about the past here and there. It was sad though, I miss her son a tremendous amount. Plus it would have been our wedding anniversary, neither of us brought that up though.

I am very sad today, I do miss her and especially her son. Haven't spoken with her today, but we texted a bit yesterday.

I don't think we'll be hanging out anytime soon; maybe if she reaches out to me but it's clear we are not really "friends".

[cloudten]

I can see that you would be sad about the brunch. Nobody acknowledging the anniversary would make me sad as well.

It sounds like you did get a little bit of closure. That's more than a lot of people get.

What are you going to do to take care of yourself now?

[Polis_Ohio]

I go to therapy every other week, take martial arts, spend time with my dog and hangout with friends frequently. Unfortunately I am struggling with my own issues I have had for a long time, well before I even met my ex. They are at their worse when I am lonely and heartbroken.

I am sad because of all the memories we had to move out of my house together; all the toys I bought her son, all the nights spent reading to him, all the times her and I would laugh and paint and have fun.

[cloudten]

I know it is sad... .I would be concerned if you weren't sad. It's okay to mourn your loss.  Sometimes leaning into the pain, allowing yourself to cry or be angry, makes all the difference. I think what you are going through is normal, although that doesn't make it any more fun. You're on the right path... .just stay the course. Be patient with yourself. You will have good days and bad days... .good weeks and bad weeks. There is peace on the other side of all of this. Be kind to yourself.