Ten-month reconciliation attempt failed

[Depression = 72% of members]

i have to agree with everything UVA2002 said.

[zeus123]

i have to agree with everything UVA2002 said.

[MapleBob]

Are you guys saying not to bother with last contact, or not to expect much from it? Because the latter: I really don't.

[once removed]

Are you guys saying not to bother with last contact, or not to expect much from it? Because the latter: I really don't.

i, personally, probably wouldnt bother. id leave her with the last word, and create space for both parties to heal and/or move on.

if you would like to say your piece, nothing wrong with a brief reply similar to her last text, but id keep it fairly BIFF, not expect a response, and say nothing that requires or opens a response on her end.

if its a face to face meeting you seek, i think that is very unlikely to happen, and may keep you in the same dynamic youre in.

[MapleBob]

Are you guys saying not to bother with last contact, or not to expect much from it? Because the latter: I really don't.

i, personally, probably wouldnt bother. id leave her with the last word, and create space for both parties to heal and/or move on.

if you would like to say your piece, nothing wrong with a brief reply similar to her last text, but id keep it fairly BIFF, not expect a response, and say nothing that requires or opens a response on her end.

if its a face to face meeting you seek, i think that is very unlikely to happen, and may keep you in the same dynamic youre in.

Oh F2F is NOT going to happen. She's 300 miles away. I really just want to know what happened in the past two weeks that brought on such a drastic change, and for her to know that she's loved, but that she crossed this line way too many times.

What's BIFF?

[once removed]

I really just want to know what happened in the past two weeks that brought on such a drastic change

possibly less than you think. she has experienced this process differently than you and her reality is probably very different. in other words, there may not be a concrete answer or any one thing.

and for her to know that she's loved,

she should by now.

but that she crossed this line way too many times.

she should by now. you dont need to declare it. silence and/or exiting the circumstances communicates this.

What's BIFF?

Brief, Informative, Friendly, Firm. in other words, if you want to reply, not much more than something like "thank you. i wish you all the same."

[Learning_curve74]

I really just want to know what happened in the past two weeks that brought on such a drastic change

possibly less than you think. she has experienced this process differently than you and her reality is probably very different. in other words, there may not be a concrete answer or any one thing.

I just wanted to echo what once removed wrote above. Because she is mentally ill, her experience of the world, which of course includes your relationship, is filtered through her illness and can be very different from what you experienced. Imagine going on a roller coaster ride together: you may say, "wasn't that thrilling" whereas she may say, "that was frightening" -- you were on the exact same ride but had two wildly different experiences. I think you already experienced some of this when she told you that she felt that you treated her "average" whereas you felt qute otherwise.

Also, your ex may not be capable of giving you any coherent reason or may give you reasons that you may disagree with, all of which may only be frustrating to you.

Sometimes the hardest thing to decide is when to work harder at something and when to let go. And since a relationship takes two people, you sometimes don't get the choice and then it becomes a matter of how to make yourself at peace with it all. Good luck and best wishes.

[MapleBob]

I do understand that I will most likely be frustrated and disappointed, and that asking her questions and expecting answers might just dysregulate her on me. But I know that I'll keep asking myself these questions, and I want to hear what her answers will be. Even if they're "I don't know, screw you". I'm sure I'll at least hear something.

Anyway, at this point, the conversation is going to happen, it's scheduled. So I might as well. I might even have a chance to leave things in a bit more of a positive place, in at least some respects. You never know.

And you can all tell me "I told you so" on Saturday morning. 

[Grey Kitty]

Her answers are likely to be things she believes at that moment. And could be completely different in a few minutes or days.

Don't expect to get clarity on anything but her mental illness at best from talking to her.

But nothing wrong with trying. Some pwBPD do have moments of self awareness and clarity.

[valet]

Hey Bob, I agree with GreyKitty that it'll be best to temper your expectations before meeting with her.

What are you hoping to achieve when you see her?

[MapleBob]

Well we're not meeting, just texting. My expectations are low to the point where I've thought about canceling it all together. I just don't want to walk away with questions unasked, even if I get less-than-satisfactory answers.

[MapleBob]

Our talk (well, text session) went pretty much as expected. It's true, I didn't get much in the way of answers, but I had most of my answers already. We used to do "highlights" after our dates of the best moments and I tried to get her to give me a few highlights of the last ten months. Her response: "If I could focus on highlights I wouldn't be saying goodbye. I mean, of course there are good things, but you know?" She also said that she was feeling sad and defeated and hopeless in her life in general right now, so there's obvious depression and other factors at play. I left it open for her to contact me down the line if she ever feels less conflicted about me, which seems like it might happen some day.

Her overall answer to the question of "Why?": "I have a lot of anger and I can't hurry up the process of letting it go. It's just a slow, slow thing. I'm stuck on the bad things. It's what I obsess about and run over in my head. I know that's not fair, but it affects me."

Meanwhile, I'm dating another girl and focusing on NOT contacting my ex. Which is a fair bit easier than waiting around for someone to not be sad or mad at you about things that they made up or exaggerated. If the love doesn't last, the love doesn't last. But I fully expect to hear from her one day.

[Anez]

New beginnings, maple. Onward and upward!

Enjoy suck it Saturday!

[Grey Kitty]

Translation: I'm not capable of being in a relationship (with you) now.

And that is clearly true!

[MapleBob]

Translation: I'm not capable of being in a relationship (with you) now.

And that is clearly true!

Explain? What do you see there, Grey Kitty?

[Anez]

How you doing, Maple?

[MapleBob]

How you doing, Maple?

I'm alright. Some occasional rumination, but things feel/look pretty clear to me now. It still feels mostly like it did: it feels like a strong possibility that she'll be in touch again some day, but it also feels like a strong possibility that I will never hear from her again. I'm doing what I can to be fine either way, and moving on. It's a relief, but there's also still some grief on my end. I don't miss what the past ten months were like, but I miss the fourteen months before that.

[Grey Kitty]

I was talking about her answer regarding having a lot of anger.

She has to cope better with that anger before she can be in a successful relationship. At least with you. (If she gets into s new one immediately that problem will still be there. But perhaps her new partner will be a better emotional punching bag/doormat and accept all the anger more than you will)

Maybe she will process this and learn better eventually. Maybe not. You aren't likely to be the beneficiary of it either way.

Does that make sense?

[MapleBob]

Maybe she will process this and learn better eventually. Maybe not. You aren't likely to be the beneficiary of it either way.

Does that make sense?

Yes! That's what I figured you were getting at, and my thinking regarding her is pretty similar. I messed up some things with her for sure, but nothing remotely justifying 10+ months of anger/sadness/acting out about - certainly not with how consoling and validating and willing I have been to work through it with her. Key word there: work through.

[Grey Kitty]

Going forward, I'm not sure how well you learned tools like boundary enforcement, stopping yourself from saying needlessly invalidating things (like JADEing), validation, or tools like SET... .but if you did, this is time and effort well spent, and will help you in many ways.

People with BPD of other cluster B disorders are particularly sensitive and badly behaved ... .But nobody likes the things that set them off. And everybody likes validation. So these skills will help you relate better with everybody in your life, not just her.

For example, JADEing at your boss won't leave a good impression even if your boss doesn't blow up like a pwBPD. (Hoping your boss doesn't have a PD!)

[izabellizima]

I've been off this thread for a bit and try to sneak into the staying thread now that I am on round 2 of our cycle.

Let me say this: after 21 days of not seeing her I feel like a person who lived in a house that had a pee-stained carpet and an untrained dog. I couldn't smell the piss. Then, 21 days after I went on vacation, I open the door to this house and the smell is so terrible... .

I am NOT comparing her to a dog, I am not that disrespectful, also... .I can't fix anyone, she must fix herself, BUT I am now WAY more aware of how much this sucks.

I will no doubt be back to this side of things soon. These 12 days with her have been hard and ugly.

Why do we like these BPDs? Why don't we like ourselves more?

[MapleBob]

People with BPD of other cluster B disorders are particularly sensitive and badly behaved ... .But nobody likes the things that set them off. And everybody likes validation. So these skills will help you relate better with everybody in your life, not just her.

Oh for sure. For sure. I think there's a time and a place for JADE-ing, and I think that it builds understanding between people, BUT when you've said it once you've said it a hundred times. If they still aren't understanding or empathizing or doing their part to change the dynamic, well, that's that. And I will 100% percent be practicing the skills going forward.

My mistake was going into this relationship with pretty good boundary skills, and then kind of dropping them when she suddenly had a big problem with them.

Why do we like these BPDs? Why don't we like ourselves more?

I don't think it's a matter of not liking myself (well, not for me anyway), and it's not a matter of disliking her ... .It's about thinking that it's possible to return to the hypervaluation stage of giddy highs after the mask comes off. It's just not possible. In a healthy relationship the highs wear off and you're left with an intact relationship based on comfort or trust or mutual interest or empathy or whatever your relationship is good at. With a cluster B person you're left with a painful hangover.