Don't want to end it but the alternative is? More of this the rest of my life

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

I kind of skim read bits of this thread but can share a couple of things I've learnt after 10+ years being married to a pwBPD. Every situation is slightly different so your mileage may vary however;

1. pwBPD care about feelings very much. Except they only really care about their own feelings, so if you are attempting to have a discussion about your feelings 99% of the time you are wasting your breath (or "being selfish". Don't expect for anything to change just because you told them how you feel.

2. A life lived in fear is a life half lived. Sometimes you've just got to try something and have a go - re-kindling your sex life sounds like a good starting point for this. Stop expecting that the planets will align, magic will happen and everything will be better - it never works out like this. You've just got to walk into it head-on and see what happens. You might be the worst person on earth when it does (and get painted black for a few days) but it might just turn out OK as well.

[Zen80]

I kind of skim read bits of this thread but can share a couple of things I've learnt after 10+ years being married to a pwBPD. Every situation is slightly different so your mileage may vary however;

1. pwBPD care about feelings very much. Except they only really care about their own feelings, so if you are attempting to have a discussion about your feelings 99% of the time you are wasting your breath (or "being selfish". Don't expect for anything to change just because you told them how you feel.

2. A life lived in fear is a life half lived. Sometimes you've just got to try something and have a go - re-kindling your sex life sounds like a good starting point for this. Stop expecting that the planets will align, magic will happen and everything will be better - it never works out like this. You've just got to walk into it head-on and see what happens. You might be the worst person on earth when it does (and get painted black for a few days) but it might just turn out OK as well.

[formflier]

  2. A life lived in fear is a life half lived. Sometimes you've just got to try something and have a go - re-kindling your sex life sounds like a good starting point for this. Stop expecting that the planets will align, magic will happen and everything will be better - it never works out like this. You've just got to walk into it head-on and see what happens. You might be the worst person on earth when it does (and get painted black for a few days) but it might just turn out OK as well.  

  Byfaith, What would this look like?  Will she let you give her massages?  Do you think you can get yourself in a state of mind so you can try something a time or two, but not react?  The idea here is a great one, need to talk about how to actually go about this.  

FF

[byfaith]

Byfaith,

What would this look like?  Will she let you give her massages?  Do you think you can get yourself in a state of mind so you can try something a time or two, but not react?

The idea here is a great one, need to talk about how to actually go about this.

FF

A life lived in fear is a life half lived... .You are right.

me knowing our situation sex is definitely off the table. Yes she lets me give her massages. She loves massages she has no interest in sexual contact. It's like that feeling in her is dead. She thinks she has ptsd from her last marriage and other situations throughout her life.

Last saturday was pretty good as far as just spending time together. We "talked" about our previous sex life at different times that day. I tried to passionately kiss her and it's just not "there" for her. She was leaning against the wall in our bedroom which were painting and went up and leaned her against the wall gently and she said "don't back me against the wall, I have NEVER liked that" but ten she said something like your ok, you are safe. We french kissed for about 10 second tops and then she quit and she said thank you for wanting to french kiss me  

If I as much move my hand to her bare breast under her shirt its a bad situation. She will say you are creating a situation here. I have not seen my wifes bare breasts in 3 years let alone touch here lower parts or even stroke them (don't mean to get graphic).

She lives in the past of what her body looked like.

I was telling her the things she she used to say to me when we made love to each other and she didn't get offended. She has not touched me in this whole time either not even tried not even insinuated she was remotely interested.

She has skipped her last 2 therapy sessions? I see no trying on her part except her telling me she wants things to change but nothing changes. When we used to get in bed she would say to me don't bother putting anything on... .she just wanted to touch me and please me. When I look back now I do remember that she would grab my goober and "enjoy" it anytime she wanted to, which I didn't have a problem with. If I on my own would slip my hand without permission between her legs I would get a slight reprimand.

Another major problem here is how her son affects her. He is 31 years old has the affects of a stroke and also suffers with paranoid SZ. She has MAJOR depression over that and on top of her life long struggle with it. She will not come out and bluntly say it but she feels guilty for having a companion that she can have sex with and her son does not.

Well since saturday I have decided to back off not initiate hugs, kissing, touching. I have not discussed anything about sex. She has pecked me twice on the mouth when I came home from work since then. We don't go to bed together we don't wake up together and have coffee like we used to.

I could go on... .maybe I will later. pondering a lot of things right now.

I have to be willing to be hurt severely to initiate change.

I feel like I have been doing the rope-a-dope for the last 4 1/2 years I need to be willing to get out there and give it my best shot.

[formflier]

  Byfaith, OK man, listen, if any of this is too much or you don't want to answer, it's ok to punt.    Will she massage you?  Will she touch your genitals?    Most massages are done unclothed or with undies on.  What does she wear?  Have you proposed something less than sex but still "sexual"?  Sex toys?    Any idea if she masturbates?  Did she have orgasms when you guys were sexual before?  Did anything happen in the last couple times you had sex that you could see that from her perspective was "bad" or did she say anything?  At what point did you realize she had really "close up shop"?  How long had you guys been without sex before this long stretch?  Big picture:  Many times I find it helpful to back up and look at the value or the "theory" of the thing.    Anyone can decide to be celibate.  From a boundaries point of view, it's perfectly OK for anyone to decide that, for whatever reason they want to use.  From a boundaries point of view, it's not ok to decide that someone else be celibate.  Especially if they don't want to be celibate.    Anyway, I know that you have been dealing with this for a while and it has to be tough to have others (such as me) suggest "a little while longer" (few months or so).    Look to the future:  My goal is to get you to a point where sexual contact resumes or you are clear in your mind that you gave it your best shot and you want a sexual partner and you take action to get one.  Hang in there man!  

FF

[byfaith]

Will she massage you?  Will she touch your genitals?

No and no. she will not be unclothed. she tells me she won't even look at herself in the mirror.

Have you proposed something less than sex but still "sexual"?  Sex toys? 

what I have proposed that is less than sex is just me massaging her breasts. no way. Just stroking my hand over her genital area is forbidden.

Any idea if she masturbates?  Did she have orgasms when you guys were sexual before?

she told me emphatically that she does not masterbate. yes she had orgasms but not everytime (due to anti depressants) I believe that.

I will continue later today... .I am at work. I need to address something you said further down in your post... I will be back later.

thanks for your input

[formflier]

  Was she open to sex toys in the past?  Vibrators.  Did that help her have orgasms if she allowed it?  One more time, update me on if you guys are in MC, or have been in MC.  You said she was in T, but had missed a few last appointments, any idea what is going on in T with her.  Thanks for you openness, I know this is hard stuff.  

FF

[byfaith]

Was she open to sex toys in the past?  Vibrators.  Did that help her have orgasms if she allowed it?

not in our past, not sure if she has ever used them, probably, has I don't ask. I know too much about her sexual past for my comfort already. I used my fingers to get her to orgasm with a lot of lubrication. I think the anti depressents kill the ability to achieve orgasm. She made a statement a couple of times about being a sexual camel... .she would go long periods without achieving an orgasm. She would enjoy the sex though. The longest we would go without sex when we were having it was 3 to 4 days and that would be if she was mad at me for something

Not in marriage counseling... .she has already stated she will not go to MC. I have tried reading books with her. there is one out there "HIs needs, her needs" Willard Harley Marriage builders. Awesome book. I am so tired of trying to lead her to help she takes none of it.

She is "in" therapy. she has gone to 3 sessions and she is doing what she has done in the past, she is blowing off her appointments. I did not say a thing to her about missing yesterday. Its always some reason... .yesterday it was too sleepy. She does not give me too many details. The first 3 sessions have been about working on her depression (supposedly). She was at a point of wanting to commit suicide a few months ago and taking her son with her because he doesn't want a life and she can't get him to want to live a productive life.

more in a bit... .

[byfaith]

Formflier

www.pureintimacy.org/c/coping-with-sexual-anorexia-and-aversion/

pretty good description. Problem is that she does not want to hear this stuff, read about it or talk to the T about it