Share a Lawyer?

[ydrys017]

So, my dBPDw informed me right before Christmas that she is planning to file in January.  Her divorce threats are common around the stressful Christmas time, but this time she waived a divorce cost estimate sheet at me from her initial meeting with this lawyer.  Further, uBPDw states that '... .we should schedule a time to discuss this with the lawyer together, it will be easier and cheaper... .'

What are the pro's (if any) / con's to using the same lawyer?  If she indeed files, one of my primary concerns is the impact on our 3 children (aged 8, 11, & 14). 

FWIW, my immediate response was to this effect; I've been clear and consistent that I do not want a divorce, so why would you assume that I am interested in a joint discussion?  The conversation cycled down through the typical avenues until it ran it's course... .

[ForeverDad]

Divorce and family courts are typically structured in an adversarial format.  Unless you expect you two can really and truly negotiate in good faith the entire time then sharing a lawyer is the very last thing you want to do.  Possibly in some states it might not even be allowed?  (I know that when writing pre-nups you have to use separate lawyers.)

Your spouse may claim the legal fees are less but then again what was saved, and more, would likely go to your spouse.  There are simply too many legal maneuvers possible that your sabotage your legal, financial and parenting future.

Sounds like time for you to get a few initial consultations from some experienced family law attorneys.  You can privately discuss your situation, finances, potential strategies, leverage, exposure, etc.  Remember, they're 100% confidential, you don't have to share or divulge any strategies or options to your spouse.  The late night demands and interrogations need to be Over.

When a marriage is working and can have a future, you do share (appropriately).  If it is failing then you need to be careful what is shared and what is kept confidential.  What is shared is too often used against us Nice Guys and Nice Gals.

While you can state you don't want a divorce, if your spouse is determined to divorce, you really can't stop it, it would eventually happen.  Domestic courts are not there to fix marriages, they're to provide a framework so a marriage can be unwound addressing custody, parenting schedules, who is Residential Parent, support, assets, debts and other financial issues.  Why are you in disagreement about divorce?

(I'm a great believer in marriage.  I never imagined I would ever divorce, not in a thousand years, but when I faced blocked parenting and allegations, I realized I had to protect myself, my parenting and my children's futures.)

I had a two year divorce, the last step before the trial was scheduled was a Settlement Conference in my lawyer's conference room.  I recall beforehand, while in my lawyer's office, her lawyer came in, sat down and started talking, just the 3 of us.  One of the things he said was that he himself was divorced and he had alternate weekends (same as what I had during the temporary order).  He suggested that as something to agree with.  I said, "Sure, sounds good to me but I don't think Ms FD wants alternate weekends."   He was quiet after that.

By the way, that was one of the few times in my life where I had a wonderful answer at the right time.  I savored the moment.

By the way, the settlement conference failed within about 5 minutes or so.  She half-rose, clawing her fingers at me, saying, "I'll scratch your eyes out if you try to get custody!"  So much for court-ordered settlement conference.

[Panda39]

What she is describing sounds like a conflict of interest, you need your own attorney to represent you and protect your interests.  I would not schedule a meeting with her and her attorney without your own, you don't want to agree to anything that you will regret later.

Panda39

[ydrys017]

Thanks both, very helpful.

I don't want a divorce bec/ I believe that we can attain a fairly positive environment that would be less negative compared to separate households where the kids are alone and unbuffered.  I'm realizing and dealing with the fact that our marriage will never be what I wanted and expected, but I'm committed to making the best of it - unless she throws in the towel.  If it goes in that direction, then I indeed need to protect myself and get the best arrangement for me and my children.

[ForeverDad]

We members are different people with different qualities and abilities.  Same for our disordered spouses, they too come in all flavors.  So we have to determine individually what is best in our situations, circumstances, level of conflict or discord, as to what we ought to do.  If it is somewhat manageable and low conflict, the marriage might be rocky but still work.  However, if we're always obstructed, sabotaged, disparaged, struggling, etc, then that would not be a good example to the children.

For example, I recall once trying to help a couple with two young children.  They were both clearly very angry with each other, fuming mad even.  They grew up in families that fought.  I reasoned with them, "You grew up around conflict.  Didn't you as children tell yourselves, When I grow up I'll never do what my parents did?  But look, here you are fighting just as they did, so angry that you can't see straight!  If you grow up around conflict, you're at risk to mirror it in your own lives.  So my question is, Do you want that same future for your children, do you want to keep passing that on to the next generations?"

To a great extent, whether a marriage succeeds or fails depends on whether both spouses will work to improve the family's environment, from conflict and discord to relative peace, calm and trust.  Likely you can do that, you're trying, quite likely that's precisely why you're here.  But you've no doubt heard, it takes two to make a marriage work but only one to sabotage it.  So the question is whether your spouse will make sufficient improvements long term for the marriage to be workable.  So very much hinges on that single aspect - your spouse choosing to improve perceptions, thoughts, attitude and behavior.  Sure, we can make it seem to work just by ourselves but then there's high risk we become acquiescent appeasers and muddy doormats.  That's not healthy for us or the children and over time would be self-sabotaging.

As much as we may wish it, there is no single perfect solution.  However, despite every attempt to hold the family together sometimes you are left with no choice but to take the only option left, accept that the marriage has failed. :'( That said, it's not the end of the world.  As they say, if the eggs are cracked, make an omelet.  While you and others can't avoid triggering the overreactions, you didn't cause it.  But you can find practical ways to deal with it all - one solution is to do so from a safe (or a less unsafe) distance with a solid court order under your belt where the parenting schedule and arrangements are spelled out in detail.

Ponder this option:  Living in a calm and stable home, even if only for part of their lives, can give the children a better example of normalcy for their own future relationships.  Nearly 30 years ago the book Solomon's Children - Exploding the Myths of Divorce had an interesting observation on page 195 by one participant, As the saying goes, "I'd rather come from a broken home than live in one."  Ponder that.  Others have echoes those words in the years since then.  Taking action will enable your lives, or at least a part of your lives, to be spent be in a calm, stable environment — your home, wherever that is — away from the blaming, emotional distortions, pressuring demands and manipulations, conflict, threats, unpredictable ever-looming rages and outright chaos.

[ReclaimingMyLife]

I totally agree with ForeverDad and Panda39.  My ex (who is not BPD) and I shared a lawyer for our divorceOR.  It was cheap and probably for the most part it was to MY benefit.  But even with me benefiting in the ways that I did, I do not think sharing a lawyer was ultimately good for us OR the kids.  I think we both needed the expertise of someone who knew more than we did who could help us foresee the future and hash out things accordingly. It is always true:  you don't know what you don't know.  And we didn't know a lot.   

I got the house.  I got full custody.  I got all the power and all the responsibility.  And I wasn't even trying to get it.  I thought maybe if he didn't have to see the kids that he would want to.  But having him legally obligated to nothing (other than child support) has not been of benefit to anyone. 

Likewise, with child support, I suggested the amount based on his income.  But it was wrong.  And there was nobody looking out for him to say otherwise.  It was too much and he couldn't pay it so instead of paying a much smaller amount he just pays nothing (yes, he could be honorable and pay something and be a whole lot better about it than he is).  He needed someone looking out for him and I needed someone looking out for me.

Lastly, this was not a contentious divorce.  We actually kissed one last time before we went into the appt.  So even in a most amicable situation, a shared lawyer was a bad idea. I cannot imagine sharing a lawyer when divorcing a pwBPD.  Wouldn't even consider it!

Sorry this is upon you, but as Forever Dad said you don't want this used against you. 

When a marriage is working and can have a future, you do share (appropriately).  If it is failing then you need to be careful what is shared and what is kept confidential.  What is shared is too often used against us Nice Guys and Nice Gals.

[ydrys017]

Thanks all.  Based on this feedback, I will refuse to share a lawyer - the probabilities are against me/us, and it doesn't seem wise.

[scraps66]

No. No way. Noo! 

[ReclaimingMyLife]

Thanks all.  Based on this feedback, I will refuse to share a lawyer - the probabilities are against me/us, and it doesn't seem wise.

V E R Y  good move!  Best of luck

[sfbayjed]

" I believe that we can attain a fairly positive environment that would be less negative compared to separate households where the kids are alone and unbuffered."

I thought this as well for a long time and it was not true in my case at all.  The kids are doing much better with the 2 houses. Now when they are with me they have quality time without all the drama and conflict and they have that to compare with how things are with mom. In fact I think there is less drama at moms now as well.

My ex use to always say she wanted a divorce on Christmas and was always sorry and wanted to be together on New Years. The same thing every year. It is so much better now without all that drama in my life.

[livednlearned]

How did things go with your decision to not share lawyers?

Have you retained a lawyer for yourself?

It's a good idea to get a copy of Splitting: Protecting Yourself While Divorcing a BPD/NPD Spouse by Bill Eddy. Just so you have a heads up about what to expect.

Eddy seems to think you can do a collaborative divorce, but I think it depends on how high-conflict your spouse is. He defines a high-conflict person (HCP) as someone who has a target of blame (you), recruits negative advocates, and is a persuasive blamer. A person with BPD is not always HCP, although an HCP always have a PD of some kind.

Typically, what you experience in the marriage is what you get in the divorce.