Torturous ruminations

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

I have been RUMINATING, like obsessively (I guess that's part of ruminating) about my ex. Not as in how to get back together, he keeps trying and I am being strong, but thinking about all this things he's said in the past, recently, things he's done and not done, Things he said he'd do but didn't, things he said or says about me that he doesn't mean (the good things) or he means but aren't true (the bad things), what's going on between him and his separated wife, is he getting support from her, meanwhile trying to get support from me too and make me feel bad for not taking him back even thought he's broken up with me or threatened to UNCOUNTABLE times, how I get mad and want to say a whole bunch of things, and then realize that's pointless, then being mad I can't say anything. We work together so I have ALL sorts of ruminations about that as well.

Anyone experience this and have any suggestions for how to help stop them? I try to say, STOP, picture a big stop sign, I try to engage in something else, I try to watch movies or tv shows that will occupy me. At work I have a hard time focusing and concentrating and I'm learning something new right now so that's bringing me down.

It hurts my head and sucks my energy out, and I feel angry and depressed and my head gets all fuzzy!

[apepper21]

I have been RUMINATING, like obsessively (I guess that's part of ruminating) about my ex. Not as in how to get back together, he keeps trying and I am being strong, but thinking about all this things he's said in the past, recently, things he's done and not done, Things he said he'd do but didn't, things he said or says about me that he doesn't mean (the good things) or he means but aren't true (the bad things), what's going on between him and his separated wife, is he getting support from her, meanwhile trying to get support from me too and make me feel bad for not taking him back even thought he's broken up with me or threatened to UNCOUNTABLE times, how I get mad and want to say a whole bunch of things, and then realize that's pointless, then being mad I can't say anything. We work together so I have ALL sorts of ruminations about that as well.

Anyone experience this and have any suggestions for how to help stop them? I try to say, STOP, picture a big stop sign, I try to engage in something else, I try to watch movies or tv shows that will occupy me. At work I have a hard time focusing and concentrating and I'm learning something new right now so that's bringing me down.

It hurts my head and sucks my energy out, and I feel angry and depressed and my head gets all fuzzy!

[Michelle27]

I have had periods of these ruminations too.  For me, they tend to come late at night when I've woken from sleep and can't get back to sleep.  The thoughts come and if I don't do something to distract myself, I find myself going over events and coming up with different ways to respond to them and/or formulating what I would say if I could have uninterrupted time to state how I feel.  I, too find it exhausting and have taken to distracting myself with something else like watching something on tv or going out on my balcony for some air.  Telling myself to just "stop" has never worked.  My brain acknowledges that I SHOULD stop and continues on it's merry way. LOL

The good news is that they are coming less and less as time goes on, although I do admit to an increase lately as I just got served with divorce papers last week and there are some blatant lies in those papers and I have a case conference next month in which I will have to sit in a room with him and discuss the divorce.

[C.Stein]

I've been there, the non-stop ruminations, and still am somewhat even 7 months later.  It's not as bad now as it was but if I am not actively engaged in something that takes my attention away from my thoughts I am thinking about her and what she did.

When it gets really bad I come read posts on this site.  For general purposes I tell myself to stop thinking about it, try to do some spot meditation ... .anything to stop the really painful ruminations.  It usually helps with the really painful ones but the general ruminations continue on.  Even when I am not actively thinking about her I can feel her "ghost" charming in the background of my conscious mind waiting to reappear.

The only way through it is to experience it.  You can't really stop them but you can try to manage (endure) them better.  Try your best to not attach to the emotions or memories.  Observe them as if they are a leaf floating by you on a small brook in a forest.  You are aware of the memory/emotion (leaf) but you are simply an observer of it.  As the leaf passes by you and out of sight so does the memory/emotion it represents.

If it gets to be too much then try find something, anything that will take your attention away from your inner thoughts.  I know it is not easy ... .I have a very active internal thought process myself and there have been times when the hurricane of ruminations nearly drove me insane.  

[apepper21]

Thank you both soo Much! It's helpful to know I"m not alone in this experience! While I"m ruminating I then turn to "stop it what's wrong with you". So It's nice to know I'm not alone.

And yes C.Stein, I try that approach too. I imagine a cartoon clip I saw on the Head Space app (don't know it you know it, a great meditation app) where they show cars driving on a busy road, each labeled with an emotion and how we try to run into the road and stop them and get run over, or you can sit on the side of the road and watch them pass. It helps at times. Other times not at all... .

Thank you!

[Penelope35]

Appeper your post could easily be one of mine... .I relate to EVERYTHING you say, even the part about the separated wife... .What i do at the moment is i come here and read read read and I have also started re engaging with things I used to before I met him... .It sucks but it will get better. Soon i hope

[C.Stein]

And yes C.Stein, I try that approach too. I imagine a cartoon clip I saw on the Head Space app (don't know it you know it, a great meditation app) where they show cars driving on a busy road, each labeled with an emotion and how we try to run into the road and stop them and get run over, or you can sit on the side of the road and watch them pass. It helps at times. Other times not at all... .

Yes, when the ruminations are deafening there is almost nothing you can do immediately to make them stop.  I ask myself at time why the f**k do I care, she is gone ... .sometimes that helps.   :'(  

Sometimes I scream out in frustration, anger, pain!  That helps occasionally especially when I am feeling angry which I have been for the past two months.  I really want to get to a place of indifference, where these memories/emotions no longer have such a powerful hold on me.  So I try my best to direct my ruminations without attaching to them ... .that sometimes helps.

In the end I think what it all comes down to is acceptance.  

Acceptance that she did the things I thought she would never do, even if a part of me knew she was capable of doing them.

Acceptance that the woman I opened up more of myself too than anyone in my past threw me away like a piece of trash, but not before replacing me.

Acceptance that she did not truly love or care for ME!

Acceptance that I was a fool for believing and trusting in her even after the multitude of red flags.

Acceptance that I was a fool for continuing to believe and trust in her when I should have walked away.

Acceptance that I allowed her to push my buttons and to push me away.

Acceptance that it is ok to feel guilty and remorseful for the things I could/should have done or not done.

Acceptance that it is over and I will almost certainly never hear from her again.



I just need to accept REALITY as a part of me still feels highly conflicted ... .probably due to a trauma bond and the loss of the woman I truly loved.  

Ahhh buggers.  

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi apepper,

It sounds quite helpful that you are observing your thought process and trying to work on directing it to healthier things.

I like having different strategies and playing with them myself.  I like what C.Stein suggested re spot meditations and a leaf floating.  I have tried a similar method, but instead imagined a bubble encircling the thought and carrying it away.  Sometimes as the bubble tries to lift it, it pops, then I encircle it again to try to get it to float.

I noticed with your 'stop!' and your, 'stop it what's wrong with you.'  You are being critical of yourself.  I am currently working on being aware of being gentle to myself, often needing reminders.  My inner critic seems programmed like cruise control in my head.

Lately I've been doing something a bit different with my negative or emotional thoughts that I am finding helpful.  (I wish I could tell you the book or article I borrowed it from as it had more info... .but I'm coming up blank. Anyway... .)  When I find myself in negative thoughts, I allow them to stay with me as 'Little Sunflower Bud.'  I invite Little Bud to express herself and pout and share what feelings she is experiencing.  Then I use Big Sunflower, who is in wisemind to stay with her, soothe and guide her.  They may go back and forth in a dialogue until Little Bud feels very heard and knows Big Sun is there with her.  Sometimes Little Bud is just all pouty and is happy to quietly sit there with Big Sun just knowing she can be pouty, still loved, and Big Sun will not leave her.

Allowing myself a way to sit with some of my negative feelings, feel validated, self soothe and learn a way for another wisemind part of my thinking to lead has been quite helpful.  It helps when my negative emotions are distracting me.  I can tell Little Bud to sit still a moment, I need to run into the bank or such, but I promise to be right back and hug or listen to her.  I am feeling like it is a way to give myself the self love I have missed out on and work through some negative feelings that want to be heard.

~Sunflower

[thisworld]

Hi apepper21,

You sure are not alone in your ruminations, it happens to almost all of us. I'm happy that suggestions here are working for you.

Here are some more from our Tools in the Learning Centre.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=103396.0

Stay strong!

[once removed]

i think sometimes there is something to be said for ruminating. like anything, it can get extreme, and there are tools to manage them; youre using many of those tools which is great.

i think ruminating is a natural response to trauma. our psyches want (need?) to make sense of what otherwise makes no sense. watch a movie with a twist like the sixth sense. after its over, youre shocked, you wonder what you missed and how. you replay it in your head. perhaps you replay the movie, even several times, picking up a little bit more each time. in essence, youre doing that with your relationship. some of it can be productive, even cathartic. its all processing.

but its a balance, too. the ruminations can really bring us down, effect concentration like you describe, it can get fairly debilitating or counter productive. and sometimes the harder we try to stop, the more we ruminate. might there be a better way to harness the ruminations? writing them down went a long way for me.

[anothercasualty]

Lately I've been doing something a bit different with my negative or emotional thoughts that I am finding helpful.  (I wish I could tell you the book or article I borrowed it from as it had more info... .but I'm coming up blank. Anyway... .)  When I find myself in negative thoughts, I allow them to stay with me as 'Little Sunflower Bud.'  I invite Little Bud to express herself and pout and share what feelings she is experiencing.  Then I use Big Sunflower, who is in wisemind to stay with her, soothe and guide her.  They may go back and forth in a dialogue until Little Bud feels very heard and knows Big Sun is there with her.  Sometimes Little Bud is just all pouty and is happy to quietly sit there with Big Sun just knowing she can be pouty, still loved, and Big Sun will not leave her.

This sounds like the Journey From Abandonment to Healing book. It's not BPD centered, but I have to say it has been the most helpful book I have ever read. It took the focus of off my pwBPD and looked inside me to find what parts of me allowed this to happen (over-and-over). Don't get me wrong, I am not taking responsibility for her actions, but I am taking responsibility for mine.

Day by day... .One step forward... .

And, oh, by the way, heck yes I ruminate!

[apepper21]

Hi everyone, that is all SOO helpful. So good to know I'm not alone or crazy. It's still ridiculously hard, but knowing I'm not alone and having all of you to share with and hear from is so so so good!

C. Stein - I LOVE that acceptance piece, I will read that often.

Sunflower- I like what you said too, I've been trying to talk to my ruminating self from my healthy self, in what sounds like a similar way, that is good, b/c it takes me away from "talking" to my ex pwBPD.

I'm definitely going to check the tools!

Onceremoved: It so much interferes with my concentration and functioning. I'm sure it's good for processing on some level, but I need to cut back a lot. I have had a couple (probably more) ah ha moments, but way more downward cycling thoughts.

Thank you all again, I look forward to more chatting:)

[MapleBob]

My rumination can get out of control at times, but it always spirals back to the avalanche of truly awful, spiteful, contradictory, crazy-making things that she said to me in the last year. Not in a self-critical way, but in a "sheesh, what awful things to say for a person I used to think was sweet" way. Then I go find something else to do/focus on.

[steelwork]

Lately I've been doing something a bit different with my negative or emotional thoughts that I am finding helpful.  (I wish I could tell you the book or article I borrowed it from as it had more info... .but I'm coming up blank. Anyway... .)  When I find myself in negative thoughts, I allow them to stay with me as 'Little Sunflower Bud.'  I invite Little Bud to express herself and pout and share what feelings she is experiencing.  Then I use Big Sunflower, who is in wisemind to stay with her, soothe and guide her.  They may go back and forth in a dialogue until Little Bud feels very heard and knows Big Sun is there with her.  Sometimes Little Bud is just all pouty and is happy to quietly sit there with Big Sun just knowing she can be pouty, still loved, and Big Sun will not leave her.

This sounds like Internal Family Systems, which is concerned with relations between our various "parts." I started going to an IFS group a few months ago but had to quit. You can read about it here:

https://www.selfleadership.org/about-internal-family-systems.html

"The IFS Model... .views a person as containing an ecology of relatively discrete minds, each of which has valuable qualities and each of which is designed to -- and wants to -- play a valuable role within. These parts are forced out of their valuable roles, however, by life experiences that can reorganize the system in unhealthy ways. A good analogy is an alcoholic family in which the children are forced into protective and stereotypic roles by the extreme dynamics of their family. While one finds similar sibling roles across alcoholic families (e.g., the scapegoat, mascot, lost child), one does not conclude that those roles represent the essence of those children. Instead, each child is unique and, once released from his or her role by intervention, can find interests and talents separate from the demands of the chaotic family. The same process seems to hold true for internal families -- parts are forced into extreme roles by external circumstances and, once it seems safe, they gladly transform into valuable family members."

[C.Stein]

C. Stein - I LOVE that acceptance piece, I will read that often.

I am glad it helped.  There are many things I need to accept, with regard to myself, her and the relationship.  Finding acceptance has been extremely difficult for me and honestly confuses the hell out of me why it is so elusive.

For what it is worth, my first exploration into the issue of acceptance.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=285967.0;all

[Sunfl0wer]

Thank you so much steelwork!

I have never heard of IFS, interesting!  I borrowed the tool from somewhere else... .not sure where.

I watched the video.  I was hoping to see IFS in practice, but it seems more like a teaser video that does not want to reveal the actual technique.  I read a bit on the roles of firefighter and such... .tried to grasp and assign roles to some of my parts, but honestly... .my thought process and focus is in a poor place today so I will go back to it or do another search on the topic to help me process better.

[troisette]

Five years ago, when I was getting divorced I was very stressy and noticed that my brain wasn't as responsive as it had been.

I found a brain training site on the internet and enrolled. It develops the separate cognitive areas of the brain - it's run by Stanford University at low annual subscription to fund their research.

I also found that it has extra benefits - not only did my percentile ranking rise after a dismal start but I found that when I was doing the games my brain was so occupied that I couldn't ruminate. I used it for several years and then found I didn't have time for my daily brain training after I met exBPD.

When I picked myself up from the floor, after the break-up, I rejoined and if I find myself ruminating, thinking in circles, I start training my brain. Each subscriber has a daily short training program and also unlimited access to all the games.

My percentile ranking for my age is now 99% - this makes me feel good, I have a cure for rumination - this makes me feel even better. Yes, I do think about ex but occupying my brain elsewhere definitely helps and I hope this helps others suffering the misery of thinking, remembering, wondering, in ever decreasing circles.

[kc sunshine]

I love the head space app!

And yes C.Stein, I try that approach too. I imagine a cartoon clip I saw on the Head Space app (don't know it you know it, a great meditation app) where they show cars driving on a busy road, each labeled with an emotion and how we try to run into the road and stop them and get run over, or you can sit on the side of the road and watch them pass. It helps at times. Other times not at all... .

Thank you!

[kc sunshine]

This is a great idea too-- I'm going to try it!

Five years ago, when I was getting divorced I was very stressy and noticed that my brain wasn't as responsive as it had been.

I found a brain training site on the internet and enrolled. It develops the separate cognitive areas of the brain - it's run by Stanford University at low annual subscription to fund their research.

I also found that it has extra benefits - not only did my percentile ranking rise after a dismal start but I found that when I was doing the games my brain was so occupied that I couldn't ruminate. I used it for several years and then found I didn't have time for my daily brain training after I met exBPD.

When I picked myself up from the floor, after the break-up, I rejoined and if I find myself ruminating, thinking in circles, I start training my brain. Each subscriber has a daily short training program and also unlimited access to all the games.

My percentile ranking for my age is now 99% - this makes me feel good, I have a cure for rumination - this makes me feel even better. Yes, I do think about ex but occupying my brain elsewhere definitely helps and I hope this helps others suffering the misery of thinking, remembering, wondering, in ever decreasing circles.

[apepper21]

I agree, I'm going to check it out!

This is a great idea too-- I'm going to try it!

Five years ago, when I was getting divorced I was very stressy and noticed that my brain wasn't as responsive as it had been.

I found a brain training site on the internet and enrolled. It develops the separate cognitive areas of the brain - it's run by Stanford University at low annual subscription to fund their research.

I also found that it has extra benefits - not only did my percentile ranking rise after a dismal start but I found that when I was doing the games my brain was so occupied that I couldn't ruminate. I used it for several years and then found I didn't have time for my daily brain training after I met exBPD.

When I picked myself up from the floor, after the break-up, I rejoined and if I find myself ruminating, thinking in circles, I start training my brain. Each subscriber has a daily short training program and also unlimited access to all the games.

My percentile ranking for my age is now 99% - this makes me feel good, I have a cure for rumination - this makes me feel even better. Yes, I do think about ex but occupying my brain elsewhere definitely helps and I hope this helps others suffering the misery of thinking, remembering, wondering, in ever decreasing circles.