Working through Jealous as a "Flea"

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Hi,

I have only realized recently at 43 years old regarding something that I never even knew I had - until all of this came to the fore a couple of months ago.  ie. jealousy.  It is scary, as I have never really been that jealous in romantic relationships, at least I didn't think so (am pretty sure I wasn't).   But I have figured out now that I have this jealousy with friends - which is really weird - and not healthy.  I know where I got it from - my uBPD mother - but it is something that I really want to work on.  I also seem to be jealous over people's achievements, their happiness and all that sort of stuff.  Only just started to realize all this stuff and want to move beyond it. 

I know that self esteem is something I need to address - which should take care of a lot of it.  Does anyone else have any experiences with this?  And any suggestions about how to work on this?

I only just realized also that my uBPD mother is really quite a jealous person, which is really sad but true.  However, I am very grateful that I am finally realizing all of these things once and for all, crazy how all of these things were below the surface for so many years, but I never ever saw them.

Thanks for listening in advance

Cheers,

Anon72

[anon72]

Hi,

I have only realized recently at 43 years old regarding something that I never even knew I had - until all of this came to the fore a couple of months ago.  ie. jealousy.  It is scary, as I have never really been that jealous in romantic relationships, at least I didn't think so (am pretty sure I wasn't).   But I have figured out now that I have this jealousy with friends - which is really weird - and not healthy.  I know where I got it from - my uBPD mother - but it is something that I really want to work on.  I also seem to be jealous over people's achievements, their happiness and all that sort of stuff.  Only just started to realize all this stuff and want to move beyond it. 

I know that self esteem is something I need to address - which should take care of a lot of it.  Does anyone else have any experiences with this?  And any suggestions about how to work on this?

I only just realized also that my uBPD mother is really quite a jealous person, which is really sad but true.  However, I am very grateful that I am finally realizing all of these things once and for all, crazy how all of these things were below the surface for so many years, but I never ever saw them.

Thanks for listening in advance

Cheers,

Anon72

[eeks]

Hi anon72,

Welcome to the Personal Inventory board  

I like Karla McLaren's take on envy and jealousy (and her approach to emotions in general) - www.karlamclaren.com/the-social-genius-of-jealousy-and-envy/

I do not know if you have come across references to the difference between self-esteem and self-worth (or self-acceptance).  Self-esteem is said to be based on external things like appearance, achievements, money, power, and I have read that people who have high self-esteem don't necessarily have high self-worth.  Self-worth is inherent in the person, "you are worthy just because you exist" type thing, and doesn't depend on any characteristics or accomplishments.  Maybe when you said self-esteem you were actually referring to something closer to this idea of self-worth?

Your question got me thinking about this.  I struggle with self-worth (my thoughts tend to go "... .but how can I be valuable if people treat me badly?  people treat valuable things with respect, don't they?).  And then I thought to myself, why am I afraid to just declare my worth?  And the answer that came up was that it almost feels defiant, disloyal to my family! (relinquishing the role my family set for me, especially my father who gave me the message I was not good enough for him).  So, you may also find that you end up working through some feelings of anger and grieving towards your family of origin (FOO) as you go through your process.

So, suggestions about self-esteem... .first of all, do you accept yourself?  If not, what aspects of yourself do you not feel accepting towards and why?

eeks

[Grey Kitty]

anon72, your situation sounds more like envy than jealousy... .but they are related... .and I have better perspective on jealousy today, so that's what I'm going to write about anyway. I really liked the article eeks posted, I gotta say, and I want to share a story of my new(ish) and very healthy relationship with jealousy.

I was never the jealous sort in relationships. For probably the first decade and a half into my marriage. Until one day there was this coworker my wife befriended, and started to see a bit socially. I was sometimes included, and so was this guy's gf upon occasion.

I got into some weird fights with my wife, over her wanting to spend time with him when I wasn't there, giving me a variety of excuses/reasons.

I was jealous, but mostly stuffed the feeling... .and did end up letting the two of them have some private time, as well as spending time as a threesome upon occasion.

Later, I got the whole story from my wife--there was some real chemistry between the two of them. (yes, obvious to all observers unless they were trying not to see it.) No, it wasn't a sexual thing, or at least it didn't become a physical sexual thing. My wife did acknowledge some fantasies around him, and even turning it into an obsession in her own mind. I'm not sure she used the word, and she might or might not acknowledge it today, but it clearly was an emotional affair.

So what was my jealousy (which I ignored that time) doing? It was my intuition/emotional side telling me something I very much needed to know. This guy is significant to my wife, and this relationship has an impact on my marriage.

In the end, I didn't need to do anything about this, and had I been more aware with myself, I might have had a productive conversation with my wife about it... .or most likely wouldn't have--she wasn't very self-aware about this at the time she was doing it, and was a master of pretending she wasn't doing such things. I could have tried to box her into a corner and force her to accept what she was doing, but I'm pretty sure it would have just been a bigger fight, not a productive resolution.

But were I to take my decade-wiser self and go back into this situation, I would hope I'd notice, care, and start by talking to a few very trustworthy friends (besides my wife) about this... .and perhaps had a few less fights over it with my wife, were she in the place she was at the time still... .If something similar happens to me again, I sincerely hope to be in a relationship with somebody I could have an honest and open conversation about it with.

I pretty much found out after that and a couple other situations that my jealousy regarding my wife was VERY ACCURATE*. Whenever I felt it, she was either obsessed with another guy or falling in love with him. And once I realized that this was going on, I could decide what to do about it, not reacting blindly to the jealousy. (I did better at noticing the feelings when they happened in later incidents.)

*Accurate in that I never had a false positive--when I was jealous, something was going on. I suspect that my jealousy did have some false negatives, not getting tripped enough for me to notice when something was happening.

This accuracy was significant; While my wife wasn't terribly prone to affairs (emotional or physical), she is an unstoppable, almost compulsive flirt. 95% of the time she flirted, it was just for fun, and generally the guys were also just in it for the fun of the flirting too. I've said that once the flirting happened, she regained executive control, and decided where she wanted to go with things next. She could do this in front of me and not trigger jealousy in many/most cases. At a deeper emotional and intuitive level, I knew this was just playing and wasn't any kind of threat to my romantic relationship with her.


Jealousy gets a bad name not because it itself is so bad, but because people get lost in it, and do really stupid destructive things like put on adult diapers, and drive across a dozen states non-stop intending to kill somebody!

[anon72]

Hi anon72,

Welcome to the Personal Inventory board  

I like Karla McLaren's take on envy and jealousy (and her approach to emotions in general) - www.karlamclaren.com/the-social-genius-of-jealousy-and-envy/

I do not know if you have come across references to the difference between self-esteem and self-worth (or self-acceptance).  Self-esteem is said to be based on external things like appearance, achievements, money, power, and I have read that people who have high self-esteem don't necessarily have high self-worth.  Self-worth is inherent in the person, "you are worthy just because you exist" type thing, and doesn't depend on any characteristics or accomplishments.  Maybe when you said self-esteem you were actually referring to something closer to this idea of self-worth?

Your question got me thinking about this.  I struggle with self-worth (my thoughts tend to go "... .but how can I be valuable if people treat me badly?  people treat valuable things with respect, don't they?).  And then I thought to myself, why am I afraid to just declare my worth?  And the answer that came up was that it almost feels defiant, disloyal to my family! (relinquishing the role my family set for me, especially my father who gave me the message I was not good enough for him).  So, you may also find that you end up working through some feelings of anger and grieving towards your family of origin (FOO) as you go through your process.

So, suggestions about self-esteem... .first of all, do you accept yourself?  If not, what aspects of yourself do you not feel accepting towards and why?

eeks

Thanks Eeks, greatly appreciated, I never realized the difference between self-worth and self-esteem   What I care about is self-worth/acceptance - I guess it is about the fact that I was treated as "bad" usually in the family for quite a long time (the "angry" one) and previously was the "good" one until I was 13.  And for so long I was trying to prove otherwise, even trying to write emails to my sisters last year about how that I was no longer angry etc.  (realize now how pointless that was - as I serve a purpose for my uBPD mother by being the "angry" one in the family).  What I am working on realizing (by going low contact) is that those roles assigned by my "family" really can be cast aside - and it is what I think about myself that really matters.  So am working on just accepting myself, whilst it is getting better - seems to be something that is a process - which I am aware of.

In terms of what I have done with my life (self-esteem), I guess you could say it was valuable, studying, travelling etc. etc.  But that is never enough really, it is all about accepting myself - I have finally realized.  I always tried to do more to "win" the acceptance of my mother, but no matter what - it was never enough (of course) - I will never get that "unconditional" love of course. 

Regarding what aspects - I think that I was always looking for someone else to "unconditionally love" me - and thought that would give me self-esteem - if I had better friends - or a more reliable "girlfriend" etc. etc.  And then it finally hit me at 43 years old when I came across this board - that it is simply a question of accepting myself.  Little slow, but better late than never     Aspects that I struggle with:  my sensitive side (including my over-thinking).  But otherwise, I think that I always thought I had to reach a particular point before I could become "lovable" after my uBPD mother always raised the bar - but finally realized that was a load of "rubbish".  Basically - I looked for acceptance outside of myself - which is never going to be a "winner", as you are relying on others thoughts & opinions - which are constantly changing.  So am working on just accepting myself, warts and all

[anon72]

Thanks Grey Kitty for telling your story, I would definitely have been jealous in those scenarios - think that would be perfectly normal.  However, the most important thing is that you still retained quite a sense of calm (relatively speaking).  But yes, being able to talk to a partner about that sort of jealousy (as well as close friends) in an open and close manner is very important.  And yes, sounds like you do have a healthy relationship with jealousy now, you should be commended on this

You are correct, my problem is more with envy rather than jealousy, only just realized - thank you