Been a while ... wanting to share (long)

[Depression = 72% of members]

Been a while since my days of visiting/contributing multiple times a day to these boards as one of the few places where I felt safe/accepted talking about, hashing out, and getting support for what I was going through following the demise of my 12+ year relationship with a pwBPD almost six (wow) years ago.

There was almost nothing here that didn't end up helping me in some way. If not right away, then eventually, when, I feel, I was ready to accept the truth/facts about BPD and what it meant in terms of the behavior I'd witnessed, experienced, and to which I'd been subjected both during my relationship, and after it ended.

I found myself wanting to come back and contribute again today because I recently found the ability to get past the one thing that's kept me stuck. Hah. Didn't even really know I was stuck, or why until I figured it out. All I knew is that, despite all the progress I've made - the insights into myself and my own core issues I've gained - the changes that have occurred in terms of my own sense of self-worth and fundamental loveability (versus usefulness to others) - I kept finding myself constantly thinking of my ex: how we broke up, what he said (and didn't say!), how he treated me after, the kind of person he'd found to replace me in his life, the way they treated each other, how often I found myself being stalked/harassed/threatened/abused anytime they had some kind of problem, what I could do to help/make it all stop, etc., etc...

I've had very limited contact with him for over three years ... .and yet he was always in my thoughts if they weren't otherwise occupied with something more immediate/urgent. It made me feel like I was crazy, and the fact that I couldn't seem to stop thinking about him no matter what I did, made me feel even crazier.

Nine months ago, I made the very difficult decision to go full NC after being subjected to a ten day campaign of very public stalking, harassment, demands, humiliation, and abuse on Facebook by my replacement when she discovered he'd been making payments against the more than $15K he left owing me when he walked out, lost her temper, and ended up scaring him so badly he left their house/didn't tell her where he was going ... .and I was blamed by both of them for trying to cause problems/break them up by ACCEPTING the payments he'd offered and refusing to give the money BACK when she demanded it as a condition of not harassing me anymore and letting him come home without being physically assaulted again.

Too much crazy from both of them for me. Hired an attorney to enforce the settlement agreement we'd signed obligating him to repay the debt, and, on his advice, notified my ex that I no longer wanted to have any kind of contact with him at all.

Made sure both he and the replacement were still blocked on FB. Changed my phone number. Filtered all known email addresses both of them use so any messages I received would be forwarded automatically to my attorney. Got one nasty note from him, apparently, and two from her within a week of being notified of what I was doing. Have heard nothing from either one since.

The near-constant sense of anxiety and dread I initially felt about some kind of reprisal slowly started to fade away. I was able to step back, be more mindful, and look at the situation I'd created with a lot more objectivity/clarity. My fear of having one, the other, or both of them use FB to post nasty/demeaning comments about me - and wanting to find a way to lurk to see if this was happening - disappeared when I realized that they'd be making those posts KNOWING I couldn't see/be hurt by them and, therefore, would only be making them as a means of either pleasing, or hurting - NOT me - but each other. Same with trying to text, email, or otherwise contact me. Realized it was making sure the other one KNEW they wanted to do it - or actually had - that mattered most. NOT the effect it might have on me.

And that was pretty huge. Wow. Really. That's when I FINALLY understood what that damn Karpmann Triangle was really about, the role I'd inadvertently allowed myself to be playing in making it work the way it did, and the role I would probably continue to play in making it work for them - if ONLY in the abstract - because me actually being there/actively engaging in that dynamic wasn't really necessary. I didn't matter. I was just an idea - a belief - a object for which my ex could claim to have feelings that either pleased, threatened, or hurt his partner. Something both of them could use to get whatever they needed/wanted most from one another in the moment.

It was pretty clear that I - as a person, as his ex - didn't really matter to either one of them. What was hard for me to understand/accept was how that could actually be POSSIBLE for my ex given how long we'd actually been together, and the kind of relationship/life/feelings we'd once shared.

And that's when I FINALLY understood what the boards were saying about pwBPD lacking any real sense of object constancy - which, at a fundamental level, expresses itself in an inherent INABILITY to develop any real sense of self or identity INDEPENDENT of what appears offered/provided by someone else. That sense of self/identity is achieved by  mirroring, reflecting, projecting, and becoming what that someone else needs/wants to see the pwBPD as being.

I needed/wanted a partner with very specific qualities that matched, complemented, or, at the very least, didn't conflict with my sense of self - my interests, my experiences, my understanding of how the world worked, my principles, and even (sadly) my false belief that I could only be loved if I were in some way useful to someone else. That's who my ex-pwBPD became for me. Were the things he said he believed, felt, and thought at the time genuine/real/authentic? I believe he did, in fact, experience them that way while they were happening. But, and this is the most important thing, he experienced them that way no matter who he was with, or what identity he was assuming for them. Which has, of course, always created a lot of problems for him in every single relationship he's ever had - from the most casual of encounters to the most intimate/intense/involved of interactions with his partners, children, family, and friends.

My ex-pwBPD - maybe every pwBPD - becomes a different person for everyone with whom he interacts. Looking back on everything I've experienced, I get the strong feeling that any consistency between adopted identities is either coincidental, a product of general behavioral/psychological character norms, or, more often than not, I think, the result of being admitted into a group that coalesced around similar interests/attitudes.

The hardest thing for me to understand was how my ex-pwBPD could even SEEM to be SO different in SO many vital/important ways from the person/partner with whom I shared so much of myself/my life for 12+ years. It took me the longest time to believe it was possible for someone to be so different, so fast, and with so little obvious reason for it. It took even longer for me to accept that it not only COULD happen, but HAD happened in exactly the way and for exactly the reasons that I'd read about here.

Sitting with the understanding this board has given me about the way BPD works, I've had to accept and really come to terms with the fact that the person I'd loved/cared about SO much had unconsciously been created for me by the disorder - to please me - to meet my needs, desires, fantasies, and dreams - to be the person/partner with whom I could share myself/my life in the way I did ... .and that once he decided to do that full-time for someone else, the person he'd become/been for me no longer actually existed. He WAS someone else. Just like it seemed he was. Just like it felt. Weird, bizarre, irrational, and difficult to understand as that might be.

Accepting this was, in fact, the case, wasn't a monumental event. It just happened late one night, sitting in the dark, in front of the fire, ruminating on the whole situation like I've done pretty much every night since he announced he was moving out/ending our relationship in order to be with someone he'd met/been seeing for less than a month.

What was monumental/earth-shattering for me was the slow emotional aftermath of having come to this realization. It meant my ex - this person I loved/cared about so much - was gone. Didn't exist anymore. Wasn't hiding in there under all that contempt, disdain, indifference, hate, spite, scorn, maliciousness, and cruelty. That this was the lie I kept telling myself - the lie he kept telling, insisting I believe, and probably desperately needs to believe himself knowing most people simply don't change as rapidly/completely in that way as he does. That the person I'd shared so much of myself and my life with - the person I missed (and still miss) so much, not only ISN'T ever going to come back, but CAN'T ... .because that person was a product of a time, situation, feelings, and needs/desires that no longer exist ... .because that person wasn't ever really the separate, independent, real thing he appeared to be ... .because that person was the dream I had - the identity I offered/provided - when we met that, as a direct result of everything that's happened since then - also no longer exists.

I cried for days. I still cry when I think about it. Sobbing. Because I finally found the belief that had kept me so stuck: that the person I knew was still there ... .that someday, when circumstances permitted, we'd find one another, sit/talk together, share the kind of feelings/thoughts we once shared, be - if not partners - then at least the kind of friends we once were.

Knowing that isn't going to happen - can't happen - has been devastating. I've been completely overcome with grief. Opened my arms and heart to it. Sat with it. Leaned hard into it. Let it wash through, and become a part of me.

For the past four years, I've read over and over again on these boards how much better/easier it would be if our ex-pwBPD had just died. I've certainly felt that way myself. How much easier it would be to simply grieve the loss that represents, make a place in our hearts for the hole they left in their passing, let go, and move on.

I don't know if I've got it right or not, but, for me, understanding how this disorder works - how it manifests itself in the way pwBPD behave/interact with others - accepting just how unbelievable, irrational, crazy it really is - how relentlessly, desperately, and unconsciously it operates - how it easily it creates, assumes, experiences and expresses as genuine, and ultimately/eventually rejects/discards/abandons/destroys one identity after another - allowed me to say goodbye to the person my ex had created/been for me. To stop looking for him in the person he's become for someone else. To stop waiting for him to be the person he was again.

That was a month ago. I still have moments when I find myself thinking of the person he used to be. Still cry when I remind myself he's gone forever/isn't coming back. But I no longer find myself thinking of him - what he's doing now, who he's with, if he's safe, if he's happy, if he's thinking of me, if he needs me, if I'm going to hear from him, etc. etc. etc.

And that is definitely an improvement.

 

[talithacumi]

Been a while since my days of visiting/contributing multiple times a day to these boards as one of the few places where I felt safe/accepted talking about, hashing out, and getting support for what I was going through following the demise of my 12+ year relationship with a pwBPD almost six (wow) years ago.

There was almost nothing here that didn't end up helping me in some way. If not right away, then eventually, when, I feel, I was ready to accept the truth/facts about BPD and what it meant in terms of the behavior I'd witnessed, experienced, and to which I'd been subjected both during my relationship, and after it ended.

I found myself wanting to come back and contribute again today because I recently found the ability to get past the one thing that's kept me stuck. Hah. Didn't even really know I was stuck, or why until I figured it out. All I knew is that, despite all the progress I've made - the insights into myself and my own core issues I've gained - the changes that have occurred in terms of my own sense of self-worth and fundamental loveability (versus usefulness to others) - I kept finding myself constantly thinking of my ex: how we broke up, what he said (and didn't say!), how he treated me after, the kind of person he'd found to replace me in his life, the way they treated each other, how often I found myself being stalked/harassed/threatened/abused anytime they had some kind of problem, what I could do to help/make it all stop, etc., etc...

I've had very limited contact with him for over three years ... .and yet he was always in my thoughts if they weren't otherwise occupied with something more immediate/urgent. It made me feel like I was crazy, and the fact that I couldn't seem to stop thinking about him no matter what I did, made me feel even crazier.

Nine months ago, I made the very difficult decision to go full NC after being subjected to a ten day campaign of very public stalking, harassment, demands, humiliation, and abuse on Facebook by my replacement when she discovered he'd been making payments against the more than $15K he left owing me when he walked out, lost her temper, and ended up scaring him so badly he left their house/didn't tell her where he was going ... .and I was blamed by both of them for trying to cause problems/break them up by ACCEPTING the payments he'd offered and refusing to give the money BACK when she demanded it as a condition of not harassing me anymore and letting him come home without being physically assaulted again.

Too much crazy from both of them for me. Hired an attorney to enforce the settlement agreement we'd signed obligating him to repay the debt, and, on his advice, notified my ex that I no longer wanted to have any kind of contact with him at all.

Made sure both he and the replacement were still blocked on FB. Changed my phone number. Filtered all known email addresses both of them use so any messages I received would be forwarded automatically to my attorney. Got one nasty note from him, apparently, and two from her within a week of being notified of what I was doing. Have heard nothing from either one since.

The near-constant sense of anxiety and dread I initially felt about some kind of reprisal slowly started to fade away. I was able to step back, be more mindful, and look at the situation I'd created with a lot more objectivity/clarity. My fear of having one, the other, or both of them use FB to post nasty/demeaning comments about me - and wanting to find a way to lurk to see if this was happening - disappeared when I realized that they'd be making those posts KNOWING I couldn't see/be hurt by them and, therefore, would only be making them as a means of either pleasing, or hurting - NOT me - but each other. Same with trying to text, email, or otherwise contact me. Realized it was making sure the other one KNEW they wanted to do it - or actually had - that mattered most. NOT the effect it might have on me.

And that was pretty huge. Wow. Really. That's when I FINALLY understood what that damn Karpmann Triangle was really about, the role I'd inadvertently allowed myself to be playing in making it work the way it did, and the role I would probably continue to play in making it work for them - if ONLY in the abstract - because me actually being there/actively engaging in that dynamic wasn't really necessary. I didn't matter. I was just an idea - a belief - a object for which my ex could claim to have feelings that either pleased, threatened, or hurt his partner. Something both of them could use to get whatever they needed/wanted most from one another in the moment.

It was pretty clear that I - as a person, as his ex - didn't really matter to either one of them. What was hard for me to understand/accept was how that could actually be POSSIBLE for my ex given how long we'd actually been together, and the kind of relationship/life/feelings we'd once shared.

And that's when I FINALLY understood what the boards were saying about pwBPD lacking any real sense of object constancy - which, at a fundamental level, expresses itself in an inherent INABILITY to develop any real sense of self or identity INDEPENDENT of what appears offered/provided by someone else. That sense of self/identity is achieved by  mirroring, reflecting, projecting, and becoming what that someone else needs/wants to see the pwBPD as being.

I needed/wanted a partner with very specific qualities that matched, complemented, or, at the very least, didn't conflict with my sense of self - my interests, my experiences, my understanding of how the world worked, my principles, and even (sadly) my false belief that I could only be loved if I were in some way useful to someone else. That's who my ex-pwBPD became for me. Were the things he said he believed, felt, and thought at the time genuine/real/authentic? I believe he did, in fact, experience them that way while they were happening. But, and this is the most important thing, he experienced them that way no matter who he was with, or what identity he was assuming for them. Which has, of course, always created a lot of problems for him in every single relationship he's ever had - from the most casual of encounters to the most intimate/intense/involved of interactions with his partners, children, family, and friends.

My ex-pwBPD - maybe every pwBPD - becomes a different person for everyone with whom he interacts. Looking back on everything I've experienced, I get the strong feeling that any consistency between adopted identities is either coincidental, a product of general behavioral/psychological character norms, or, more often than not, I think, the result of being admitted into a group that coalesced around similar interests/attitudes.

The hardest thing for me to understand was how my ex-pwBPD could even SEEM to be SO different in SO many vital/important ways from the person/partner with whom I shared so much of myself/my life for 12+ years. It took me the longest time to believe it was possible for someone to be so different, so fast, and with so little obvious reason for it. It took even longer for me to accept that it not only COULD happen, but HAD happened in exactly the way and for exactly the reasons that I'd read about here.

Sitting with the understanding this board has given me about the way BPD works, I've had to accept and really come to terms with the fact that the person I'd loved/cared about SO much had unconsciously been created for me by the disorder - to please me - to meet my needs, desires, fantasies, and dreams - to be the person/partner with whom I could share myself/my life in the way I did ... .and that once he decided to do that full-time for someone else, the person he'd become/been for me no longer actually existed. He WAS someone else. Just like it seemed he was. Just like it felt. Weird, bizarre, irrational, and difficult to understand as that might be.

Accepting this was, in fact, the case, wasn't a monumental event. It just happened late one night, sitting in the dark, in front of the fire, ruminating on the whole situation like I've done pretty much every night since he announced he was moving out/ending our relationship in order to be with someone he'd met/been seeing for less than a month.

What was monumental/earth-shattering for me was the slow emotional aftermath of having come to this realization. It meant my ex - this person I loved/cared about so much - was gone. Didn't exist anymore. Wasn't hiding in there under all that contempt, disdain, indifference, hate, spite, scorn, maliciousness, and cruelty. That this was the lie I kept telling myself - the lie he kept telling, insisting I believe, and probably desperately needs to believe himself knowing most people simply don't change as rapidly/completely in that way as he does. That the person I'd shared so much of myself and my life with - the person I missed (and still miss) so much, not only ISN'T ever going to come back, but CAN'T ... .because that person was a product of a time, situation, feelings, and needs/desires that no longer exist ... .because that person wasn't ever really the separate, independent, real thing he appeared to be ... .because that person was the dream I had - the identity I offered/provided - when we met that, as a direct result of everything that's happened since then - also no longer exists.

I cried for days. I still cry when I think about it. Sobbing. Because I finally found the belief that had kept me so stuck: that the person I knew was still there ... .that someday, when circumstances permitted, we'd find one another, sit/talk together, share the kind of feelings/thoughts we once shared, be - if not partners - then at least the kind of friends we once were.

Knowing that isn't going to happen - can't happen - has been devastating. I've been completely overcome with grief. Opened my arms and heart to it. Sat with it. Leaned hard into it. Let it wash through, and become a part of me.

For the past four years, I've read over and over again on these boards how much better/easier it would be if our ex-pwBPD had just died. I've certainly felt that way myself. How much easier it would be to simply grieve the loss that represents, make a place in our hearts for the hole they left in their passing, let go, and move on.

I don't know if I've got it right or not, but, for me, understanding how this disorder works - how it manifests itself in the way pwBPD behave/interact with others - accepting just how unbelievable, irrational, crazy it really is - how relentlessly, desperately, and unconsciously it operates - how it easily it creates, assumes, experiences and expresses as genuine, and ultimately/eventually rejects/discards/abandons/destroys one identity after another - allowed me to say goodbye to the person my ex had created/been for me. To stop looking for him in the person he's become for someone else. To stop waiting for him to be the person he was again.

That was a month ago. I still have moments when I find myself thinking of the person he used to be. Still cry when I remind myself he's gone forever/isn't coming back. But I no longer find myself thinking of him - what he's doing now, who he's with, if he's safe, if he's happy, if he's thinking of me, if he needs me, if I'm going to hear from him, etc. etc. etc.

And that is definitely an improvement.

 

[lbjnltx]

Long time no see talithacuma 

I'm so glad to see  you here and to learn of the insights and enlightenment that you have now. 

Each of of us have our own journey, as unique as we each are and as unique as our relationships with a BPD can be, no two look the same.  We can walk together on the path towards recovery and enlightenment, hand in hand, in silent acknowledgement of the pain we have endured and the hopes we hold onto for ourselves and each other.



lbj

[gotbushels]

Thank you talithacumi 


"Nine months ago, I made the very difficult decision to go full NC after being subjected to [... .]" Very cool.

"[... .] when I realized that they'd be making those posts KNOWING I couldn't see/be hurt by them and, therefore, would only be making them as a means of either pleasing, or hurting - NOT me - but each other." Looks like that part of the jungle was still wacky without you. 

"My ex-pwBPD - maybe every pwBPD - becomes a different person for everyone with whom he interacts. " With due respect, you know why they pack their suitcase so often? To hide their identity printer.

"I don't know if I've got it right or not, but, for me, understanding how this disorder works [... .]" Spot on.

"I cried for days. [... .]"  Your sadness and hurt seep through. Yet, I can almost touch the state of ease you're reaching. 


This is a very pleasant read.

Being taken along with your thoughts as they resolve is refreshing.

[Grey Kitty]

  Haven't seen you in a while, and good to see you making so much progress.

I think you get it, but I do want to emphasize something in this... .

I don't know if I've got it right or not, but, for me, understanding how this disorder works - how it manifests itself in the way pwBPD behave/interact with others - accepting just how unbelievable, irrational, crazy it really is - how relentlessly, desperately, and unconsciously it operates - how it easily it creates, assumes, experiences and expresses as genuine, and ultimately/eventually rejects/discards/abandons/destroys one identity after another - allowed me to say goodbye to the person my ex had created/been for me. To stop looking for him in the person he's become for someone else. To stop waiting for him to be the person he was again.

You wanted him to be the persona he created to be with you, and since it was created just for you, it was very compelling, and took you a long time to realize that it wasn't really him, and get over it.

The persona he created for your replacement is just as unreal, and that helped you see it.

His "real" self is indeed the lost one who doesn't know who he is, and does redefine himself to please the person he's around (while he is at his best), until he can't do it anymore and paints them black. The chameleon is who he really is.


... .and you've figured out that you are worth more than that, and don't even want it back now. 

[talithacumi]

Thanks to everyone for reading, sharing your thoughts, and giving me so much support. Love this place.