He hung up on me, I blocked him, he left 3 voice mails - Part 2

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Ty that is correct.

Right now the relationship is not delivering what it promised to deliver: a replacement for my discarded marriage.

My partner is in much higher socioeconomic category then my ex so that is why the act of him stepping into my life was so inappropriate . I think my partner used my life as an escape from his life until I put a stop to that.

I appreciate the board taking the time to help me through this. Getting hung up on is a big deal for me .

[unicorn2014]

Ty that is correct.

Right now the relationship is not delivering what it promised to deliver: a replacement for my discarded marriage.

My partner is in much higher socioeconomic category then my ex so that is why the act of him stepping into my life was so inappropriate . I think my partner used my life as an escape from his life until I put a stop to that.

I appreciate the board taking the time to help me through this. Getting hung up on is a big deal for me .

[Sunfl0wer]

Years ago a T had me write down a list of coping activities that I could engage in when stressed... .most were enjoyable things such as listening to music, going for a walk outdoors, etc.  I put about 20 things on an index card and kept it in my purse.  I took out the card when stressed and could pick something.

What was helpful was that when I was stressed, it was hard to thing of something enjoyable to do. Having a handy 'cheat sheet' proved to be helpful.  As I pulled out the card and stared at it... .something happened in my cognitive processing... .

Instead of perseveration on the problem and being stuck in my emotional mind... .

I looked at the card and it caused my mind to immediately switch gears to my logical/problem solving mind.

As long as I stared at that card trying to make a choice... .my logic was kicking in and taking me out of a default victim schema mode... .as I had to look at problem solving choices.

Do you think making yourself an index card or some similar strategy could help?

Btw... .Initially I often got stuck, unable to decide... .then got emotional and upset with myself.  T encouraged me to stick with it and problem solved what to do when stuck... .vs abandoning tool.  It did work.

[unicorn2014]

Yes, that's distress tolerance and I have a DBT diary card app on my phone.

I know it's up to me as the emotional leader of the relationship to take a step back when I feel triggered, just like I need to do on the board.

I think we worked through that problem.

The next time something that comes up that makes me feel squirrelly I will post about it. It really helps me to talk about the things that are going on. I've got some coparenting and coping and parenting issues I need to post about too.

I appreciate you listening and sharing your own experience . It really helps.

[Sunfl0wer]

 .

I know it's up to me as the emotional leader of the relationship to take a step back when I feel triggered, just like I need to do on the board.

That's the great thing... .the tools used for our relationship with SO help in many areas of life!

Good luck to you next time in pulling out your DBT diary card!  (I do not have the names for things like you)

Do you anticipate any obstacles to doing this next time you are feeling stressed?

I wonder if you are texting, will you also be able to access the app and such?

Do you need to print it?

Maybe print and post prior to making your next call as a reminder that you ma need a break?

Idk... .just brainstorming so you have all the tools needed to be successful in using the tools.   

It is easy to feel we may plan to use a tool... .however, when feelings get flowing, harder to tap into logical side to put into practice.

Feel free to discuss any tools you think may be helpful in helping you use tools.

Or any obstacles you may anticipate... .so we can problem solve them ahead of time.

Can you do some visualizations?

Do you want to talk through a pretend scenario where you feel triggered... .

... .you hit the start button... .scroll left for app... .tap app... .app loads... .choose go for a walk... .go for a walk... .then imagine how the walk feels... .and imagine feeling emotionally calmer following the walk.  (Obviously this is just an ex)

Idk... .this will take hard work to turn around what seems like an automatic response.  Best to give yourself all and every advantage of success that you can! 

[unicorn2014]

I have another app on my phone that asks me 5 times a day how I'm feeling.

I'm satisfied with how things are going in my relationship today. I think the whole subject of FaceTime is sensitive. It was my idea to start it in the first place back in August of 2012 and it was my idea to stop it in December of 2015. The circumstances of my life has changed a lot since then, my daughter is older, these days I enjoy watching Netflix while I'm cooking instead of FaceTime. I generally find FaceTime distracting as it forces me to give my full undivided attention to my partner and I can't do that anymore.

I asked my husband to leave when my daughter was in preschool so I don't know what it's like to live with another adult with a teen in the home. My daughter pretty much demands all my attention, trying to pay attention to my partner too is too much for me and he gets that so perhaps we won't have that problem again.

[Sunfl0wer]

What I am proposing is a way for us here on these boards to support you.

It seems like you identified a problem: Needing to step back when or before you feel triggered.

I hoped by offering some suggestions that we could work through a plan that you could employ.  (Heck, if I could hang up the phone for you guys I certainly would... .nah, j/k! )

However, I am confused by your response:

I'm satisfied with how things are going in my relationship today.

My daughter pretty much demands all my attention, trying to pay attention to my partner too is too much for me and he gets that so perhaps we won't have that problem again.

Do you not seek support in minimizing conflict?

Or are you content with your relationship and feel that perhaps the level of conflict that has been going on for the past 3+ yrs may not resurface?

Are you content with your ability to identify when you feel stressed and can effectively step away?    

[unicorn2014]

I'm saying that my partner saw how hard it was for me to pay attention to him on FaceTime so perhaps we won't have that particular problem again.

I also told him today that if his lawyer hasn't filed a motion to compel and my lawyer asks me about my statement about my partners observations I'm just going to refer to him as the man I'm seeing. He was ok with that too.

Part of what was making my partner so cranky is he was actually very sick and he talked to his doctor today. I had a long conversation with my partner today about not using pain to distract from pain. I let him know that that wouldn't work if he was living out here so he needed to think about it now. He denied that's what he was doing but he also claimed the pain reset him and he needed a reset.

I think the lesson learned in all this is I need to pay closer attention next time my partner says he feels sick and take a step back then. I know it seems counter intuitive, you're supposed to take a step forward when your partner isn't feeling well but in this case a step back is what is warranted.

Does that make sense?

What I am saying is that whole argument was caused by the fact that he wasn't feeling well.

[Sunfl0wer]

I think the lesson learned in all this is I need to pay closer attention next time my partner says he feels sick and take a step back then.

Yes, but is this news?

It sounds like you have been trying to take a step back... .

It sounds like there are other occurrences where taking a step back would help the relationship.

Are you saying you think this is an isolated incident in the relationship?

The content may change, but the structure remains the same.

Do you think that you will step away before conflict occurs?  On a daily consistent basis for several weeks as an attempt at improving the quality of your relationship?

[unicorn2014]

I'm saying I've clearly identified one behavior where I need to take a step back: when he says he feels sick, which is hard because that's when he needs more support. He's accused me in the past of not caring about him, not showing concern, being self absorbed, etc. That has caused me to distance myself from him when he says he feels sick because I don't know if he's doing that to get my attention or not.

In this case he really was sick and when he said he was going to go the ER I encouraged him to do so. He decided not to because he didn't think it was cost effective but I told him if he was living out here and that happened I would strongly encourage him to go to the er.

The question is : how do I handle it when he says he's sick? I've seen him go through more gastrointestinal problems in the 4 years I've known him then I've experienced in my life time. His father had colon cancer. Sometimes he feel like he's playing for my sympathy when he can't get it any other way, in other words he has waif traits. I've mentioned this before. This in turn causes me to distance myself from him which is the exact opposite of the response he's looking for. However if I don't distance myself we got in an argument. It's really a no win situation.

[Sunfl0wer]

I'm saying I've clearly identified one behavior where I need to take a step back: when he says he feels sick, which is hard because that's when he needs more support.

Perfect, I'm glad you brought this example up so you can prepare!

We are talking about being an emotional leader:

I know it's up to me as the emotional leader of the relationship to take a step back when I feel triggered, ... .

If you feel triggered, yes, get some space, go perform an act of self care until you feel in a good place emotionally again.

Should you take space for self care when he is sick? Yes, absolutely.  As long as your emotions are taking over, take space until your wisemind is in charge again. 

I'm glad you brought up the word: behavior

Remember, this is all about you... .and taking care of you... .

You will be chatting with him and paying attention and scanning your body for a physiological change to determine if your emotions are getting too strong. 

When things feel too strong => excuse yourself => apply solution of self care

You are not scanning his words or his behaviors for triggers.  You maintain the focus on yourself, how you feel.

_{(I believe the exception is that even if you do not feel triggered, yet he has been abusive, take space for self care)}

The question is : how do I handle it when he says he's sick? I've seen him go through more gastrointestinal problems in the 4 years I've known him then I've experienced in my life time. His father had colon cancer. Sometimes he feel like he's playing for my sympathy when he can't get it any other way, in other words he has waif traits. I've mentioned this before. This in turn causes me to distance myself from him which is the exact opposite of the response he's looking for. However if I don't distance myself we got in an argument. It's really a no win situation.

Absolutely!  If you feel triggered and need space when he is sick, yes, go do self care until you can bring your wisemind back to him.

He has a PD, do not expect him to appreciate or thank you for caring for your own emotional needs before reengaging with him.

This is not about getting thanks or winning.  It is about minimizing conflict so you can have more positive and enjoyable interactions between you both.

[unicorn2014]

Thank you sunflower that was very helpful. I think as women with PTSD we need to take extra care when we're dealing with men with PD. I've had a lot of stimulation from various men in my life with PD this weekend so I'm a bit saturated and need to repair. The day after I had a problem with my partner I had problems with my ex and my dad. I need to write about the coparenting stuff next on that board.

[formflier]

 

Unicorn,

Listen, you have talked about a couple of times that you haven't had a healthy r/s, so you are not sure what one looks like and is like.

Therefore I would submit to you that you also might be a bit confused about the road-map of how to get to a healthier r/s.  That is what I and many others are trying to point out to you.

Many of the things that you are declaring "are not the problem", are A problem that should (IMO) be worked on to find a better way of relating that could lead to a healthier relationship.

Perhaps there is too much focus on finding THE problem.

No effort here to "beat you up".  I am hoping that you will realize that you are "heading the wrong way", with potentially disastrous results.  I am concerned about you.



I'll make another attempt at the "wrong way" analogy.  I like to illustrate things with movie scenes or movie lines when I explaining things.  Sometimes it works.  To be clear, my goal is to get you to step back and look at the "structure" of your r/s (thank you sunflower for that) and less focus on minutiae.


https://youtu.be/_akwHYMdbsM


So, I'm not asking if you agree or disagree.  Can you explain back to me the point I am trying to illustrate.  Understanding and agreeing (IMO) are two very different things.

FF

[Sunfl0wer]

I've had a lot of stimulation from various men in my life with PD this weekend so I'm a bit saturated and need to repair.

Great, This sounds like an opportunity to provide yourself some self care!

What are you going to do to repair?

(If you haven't already done something)

[unicorn2014]

Unicorn,

Listen, you have talked about a couple of times that you haven't had a healthy r/s, so you are not sure what one looks like and is like.

Therefore I would submit to you that you also might be a bit confused about the road-map of how to get to a healthier r/s.  That is what I and many others are trying to point out to you.

Many of the things that you are declaring "are not the problem"... .are A problem that should (IMO) be worked on to find a better way of relating that could lead to a healthier relationship.

Perhaps there is too much focus on finding THE problem.

No effort here to "beat you up".  I am hoping that you will realize that you are "heading the wrong way", with potentially disastrous results.  I am concerned about you.



I'll make another attempt at the "wrong way" analogy.  I like to illustrate things with movie scenes or movie lines when I explaining things.  Sometimes it works.  To be clear, my goal is to get you to step back and look at the "structure" of your r/s (thank you sunflower for that) and less focus on minutiae.


https://youtu.be/_akwHYMdbsM


So, I'm not asking if you agree or disagree.  Can you explain back to me the point I am trying to illustrate.  Understanding and agreeing (IMO) are two very different things.

FF

formflier, that is very funny. I think know why you think the way you do. I appreciate your input. If I hope  you don't mind my disagreeing not agreeing  with it, then I encourage you. I do notice I feel an urge to apologize to you for disagreeing with you, especially since you (said) specifically don't need to know if I disagree. I'm going to start a new thread, you might think it more of the same. I read your comments, I will always read your comments and try to reply even if its disjointed like this reply. 

[unicorn2014]

I've had a lot of stimulation from various men in my life with PD this weekend so I'm a bit saturated and need to repair.

Great, This sounds like an opportunity to provide yourself some self care!

What are you going to do to repair?

(If you haven't already done something)

I already talked about the weekend in a meeting yesterday. I got a brand new opportunity to practice taking a step back this morning, so I'm going to start a new thread since we're at 7 pages.

[Lou12]

Unicorn, I really feel you need to listen to FF. It's all very well having enablers on here providing you with what you want to hear but I think you need to focus some attention on what you don't want to hear.

I'm not being rude to you but your posts go in circles without any conflict resolution. Until you are honest enough with your self to address the major issues in your relationship you will never be able to put the minor issues to bed.

You can sugar coat poop as much as you want but it will always remain poop! (Poop analogy nothing to do with you by the way) just pointing out that you can dress anything up in your mind to be anything you want but it will always remain the same object.

Please try and focus on your bigger relationship problems and not the smaller stuff. Do this for yourself. No one deserves this treatment and I for one can't enable you in sugar coating x

[unicorn2014]

Lou12 thank you for your feedback. As I've just learned on another thread we have a diverse culture here on BPD family and not everybody is going to agree. I'm in a LDR. That right there changes everything. In a LDR hang ups are a big deal. I might actually suggest a LDR board for the site as LDR changes all the usual variables such as Facebook and phone calls to something more meaningful then they are in face to face relationships.

[formflier]

Lou12 thank you for your feedback. As I've just learned on another thread we have a diverse culture here on BPD family and not everybody is going to agree. I'm in a LDR. That right there changes everything. In a LDR hang ups are a big deal. I might actually suggest a LDR board for the site as LDR changes all the usual variables such as Facebook and phone calls to something more meaningful then they are in face to face relationships.

Unicorn,

You just "dodged" again.  I'm doubtful that Lou12 is wanting you to take advice from me and others about hangups. 

I put that in the category of minutiae. 

My advice, that for some reason is being brushed aside is that since

1.  You readily admit that you have not had healthy r/s with me and don't know how to get to one or what one is like.

And

2.  You are assuring that a long list of ever changing things are NOT the problem

That perhaps

1.  Some of them are a problem (not THE) that deserves a serious look by you, with guidance from the boards to change the way you conduct your part of the r/s.

and

2.  That your inability to consistently apply solutions to r/s problems that you DO identify as a problem is "digging your hole deeper" into the world of r/s dysfunction.


Unicorn,

I am concerned more about "how" you make your choices, that the choices that you make.  I hope you can take space and consider your side of things for a while.

FF

[Cat Familiar]

I'll add my two cents here. Unicorn, I keep reading almost the identical story from you for months now. You get a lot of good advice here, but you discount it and continue to post about the same issues, over and over.

I've been in a LDL too and I do understand that Facebook and phone calls are the only connection you have to this man.

What I'm noticing is that you are so focused on the minutae of the interaction, that you are ignoring the bigger picture. Despite the never ending excuses he's feeding you about not moving forward on a divorce, you are in the untenable situation of trying to have a relationship with him and letting him "step parent" your daughter, which doesn't at all seem like a healthy role model for her.

So I can understand why you want to endlessly dissect the latest hang up, because you're not looking at the big picture of you, him and your daughter.

[Grey Kitty]

You get very upset when he hangs up on you. Occasionally you hang up on him. Either way it is stressful. When he hangs up on you, you stop accepting his calls for the day, and he freaks out and you get a bunch of voicemails, emails, chat messages, etc. You find those hard to deal with.

This has happened a bunch of times. Since this isn't working well, I'd like to propose a different perspective on it... .

Don't consider the hangup to be just an attack, and don't consider it to be THE PROBLEM. (Yes, it is triggering to you, and it is A problem).

Consider it to be a sign that the two of you kept talking and got too agitated, and when he gets agitated, he goes to his normal set of (not very good) tools to deal with it, and hangs up on you.

After he hangs up on you, think about the conversation you were having... .and re-wind it to the point where you and he started to get upset that led up to the hangup... .where you could have done something different, perhaps simply taking a time out and ending the conversation gracefully before either of you were agitated enough to hang up?

If you have trouble sorting it out in your head, come here and post the full conversation with the question "Where is the point I should have done something different, and what could I have done then?"

[unicorn2014]

Ty grey kitty! I will do that next time. I actually did hang up on him today after a period of silence, but I was had just walked  in to the er patient area with no cell phone signs all around me so I will call him and apologize to him for not hanging up beforehand. So far we haven't had any more problems like the one talked about in part 1 of this post. Today something he texted  did rub me wrong but I didn't react to it and it was really benign.