Why do they refuse to give us closure?

[Stu84]

Why do they refuse to give us closure?

Even false closure; why do they have to project their crap onto us and leave us in the gutter?

Who has a view on this aspect of the disorder?

[hergestridge]

My view on this is that they don't give us close because they can't. It would be too painful so the option is to quit and leave.

What I think we have to ask ourselves though, is why we need closure so much. Why don't we trust our versions of what has happened to be the truth? Do we want our ex partners to take more responsibility for what has happened?

We can talk about "closure", but what is that really?

I can see several reasons to end a relation by just leaving and not talking about it. It can be too painful and I am not willing to go through that pain for my partner. It could be that I and the person I leave have differing opinions about what the problem is and that "closure" would be more like an argument.

Also, pwBPD tend to have black/white thinking. Why would they give "closure" to someone they have painted black?

[GreenEyedMonster]

Also, pwBPD tend to have black/white thinking. Why would they give "closure" to someone they have painted black?

This.  Since pwBPD aren't aware of what the real problem is (their defenses don't allow them to see it) and they become so severely triggered by us, they really can't offer us closure.  Mine tried to offer me something approximating closure by saying that our relationship "wasn't healthy" and that I needed psychological help or I'd never have another successful relationship!  Then he offered to be my friend.  When I tried to reply to his message saying that I thought he was at least as much at fault -- I didn't even rant at him -- he blocked me on social media and declared me a "psycho stalker."  Now if I so much as look at him the wrong way, he threatens to go to court and get a restraining order against me.  This is not someone capable to facing up to his role in what went wrong.  I seem like a "psycho stalker" to him because I know his dark side, what lies beneath the mask, and now he has to deal with having someone in his immediate environment who knows all of that.  In order to be able to paint himself white, he has to paint me black, and that doesn't involve a discussion for "closure" where we both end up grey.

[hergestridge]

And if you'd get anything resembling "closure" from a borderline person it wouldn't be worth much. It's like the "I'm sorry" you get from them. The next they're not sorry any more. So you may just as well get a happy ending to your story and then they change their mind and it's all undone.

[anothercasualty]

Why don't we trust our versions of what has happened to be the truth?

This is one of the questions that is deepest seeded in my mind. My logical brain tries to work it out, and it just does not compute. I don't trust my version. Is that a self esteem issue? I am not sure. As time goes by, I am beginning to trust my version more, but upfront I needed to hear everyone else's version before I could draw a conclusion. Friends, family, and especially exBPDgf.

Every day is one step closer to healing and that closure that only comes from within.

[MapleBob]

True closure requires accountability. True closure requires "we both tried our absolute best to fix/reverse/lessen the issues between us before calling it quits". True closure requires the ability to identify the true problems, and the knowing that they cannot be fixed/reversed/lessened with the people involved.

[Confused108]

Also, pwBPD tend to have black/white thinking. Why would they give "closure" to someone they have painted black?

This.  Since pwBPD aren't aware of what the real problem is (their defenses don't allow them to see it) and they become so severely triggered by us, they really can't offer us closure.  Mine tried to offer me something approximating closure by saying that our relationship "wasn't healthy" and that I needed psychological help or I'd never have another successful relationship!  Then he offered to be my friend.  When I tried to reply to his message saying that I thought he was at least as much at fault -- I didn't even rant at him -- he blocked me on social media and declared me a "psycho stalker."  Now if I so much as look at him the wrong way, he threatens to go to court and get a restraining order against me.  This is not someone capable to facing up to his role in what went wrong.  I seem like a "psycho stalker" to him because I know his dark side, what lies beneath the mask, and now he has to deal with having someone in his immediate environment who knows all of that.  In order to be able to paint himself white, he has to paint me black, and that doesn't involve a discussion for "closure" where we both end up grey.

oh I have heard this ! Yup Green been there accused off that! After my ex decided to end things outta of course nowhere she accused me of being Obssessed with her! Said I need professional help. I should seek cognitive therapy etc. projected Everything she did to me back on me! Did not take any responsibility for what she did. Sick.

[GreenEyedMonster]

Why don't we trust our versions of what has happened to be the truth?

This is one of the questions that is deepest seeded in my mind. My logical brain tries to work it out, and it just does not compute. I don't trust my version. Is that a self esteem issue? I am not sure. As time goes by, I am beginning to trust my version more, but upfront I needed to hear everyone else's version before I could draw a conclusion. Friends, family, and especially exBPDgf.

Every day is one step closer to healing and that closure that only comes from within.

I've been reading a lot, as part of my recovery, about how people develop a sense of agency in childhood.  I think a lot of us who end up in relationships with these disordered folks simply did not learn to trust ourselves.  We were invalidated as kids, told that our emotions were wrong or told to hide them.  A disordered person comes along and validates us (as a way to get what they need from us) and since we are so starved for that, we take it and run.  They sneakily start invalidating us, and we barely notice, until all the sudden the relationship has turned into something strange and perverse.  Since we were told not to trust ourselves, and we put so much trust in the pwBPD, we are sitting ducks.  At least, that's what I think happened to me.

[once removed]

Every day is one step closer to healing and that closure that only comes from within.

i agree. closure is a vague concept. breakups are often not neat and tidy. theres an awful lot of songs out there about it. its not that anyone and everyone with borderline traits "refuse" to give partners closure. the ability to have the kind of conversation with give and take does require a certain emotional maturity and courage that not everyone has, though. attachment styles and psychological integrity have a lot to do with how we receive and react to a breakup.

generally, closure is what we make of it.

[FannyB]

In conventional relationships we tend to have clues that things aren't working out which allows us to mentally withdraw before the axe officially falls. BPD relationships differ in the sense they lead us to believe we can do no wrong - and hence we are confused and wrong footed when the acting out begins. 

The sad thing is I don't think they even know why their feelings change - but when they do their defence mechanisms require them to project their issues on to the non partner to secure their emotional survival and escape toxic shame.

If they were capable of providing closure then it's likely that none of us would have even found this board. I've certainly never gone on an internet search after the end of a relationship before!


Fanny

[Frustratedbloke]

You think it might be that they want to come back at some point? They're not sure. We're just not that important to them right now, but they might want to return in the future. So the best thing to do is not closure, not to hug it out and walk away, but just to disappear. That might work, sometimes, just reappearing down the line saying they couldn't deal with the emotion, they were hurt, blah blah blahteby blah... .Of course they might never come, but this leaves them the choice.

Or they might genuinely not care. I don't know, just figuring this stuff out myself. Mine disappeared. I gave her the long email outlining just what a b**** she has been of late and what she needs to change and how her behaviour is rubbish and how I won't just be her friend.

I have had no answer, she's just gone. I honestly expect her to resurface in a week, a month, whenever her latest crush goes bad. She's busy now, but the dead air provides an opportunity that closure just wouldn't.

[Nuitari]

Why don't we trust our versions of what has happened to be the truth?

This is one of the questions that is deepest seeded in my mind. My logical brain tries to work it out, and it just does not compute. I don't trust my version. Is that a self esteem issue? I am not sure. As time goes by, I am beginning to trust my version more, but upfront I needed to hear everyone else's version before I could draw a conclusion. Friends, family, and especially exBPDgf.

Every day is one step closer to healing and that closure that only comes from within.

I've been reading a lot, as part of my recovery, about how people develop a sense of agency in childhood.  I think a lot of us who end up in relationships with these disordered folks simply did not learn to trust ourselves.  We were invalidated as kids, told that our emotions were wrong or told to hide them.  A disordered person comes along and validates us (as a way to get what they need from us) and since we are so starved for that, we take it and run.  They sneakily start invalidating us, and we barely notice, until all the sudden the relationship has turned into something strange and perverse.  Since we were told not to trust ourselves, and we put so much trust in the pwBPD, we are sitting ducks.  At least, that's what I think happened to me.

You just described my experience perfectly.  I've always been a very introverted person.  I never felt a huge need to share my thoughts an opinions with others because I had become accustomed to assuming no one cared that much about them.  My ex, on the other hand, would hang onto every word I said.  In the beginning, I was her whole world.  I could see it in her eyes.  But at some point I mutated into just a "thing" for her to use.  She stopped caring about my feelings and had no problem telling me so.  I had no idea at the time what BPD was, but it was clear to me that she had problems.  Whenever I would try to bring it up with her, or try to gain some clarity into her inconsistent behavior, she had a way of making me feel like I was the crazy one.  I spent so much time punishing myself for things that, in retrospect, were not my fault at all.

[HarleypsychRN]

My therapist said that to her I was just an object in the end and that's why I was so easy is discard... .maybe that says it all. Manipulated and then thrown away when I confronting her about the lies and inconsistencies, it became too threatening. Healthy people try and work their issues out. We KNOW (now) that we were involved with deeply troubled individuals, individuals who may have been handsome or beautiful, beguiling (certainly) and alluring but deeply troubled.

We healers, rescuers (me) and co-dependents were/are easy pickings for these people and their pathology. 

You want closure... .take solace in that (like me) I'm sure each and every one of us did the best we could. We gave love and expected love in return but from individuals who are incapable of giving real love in return. Yes, it makes no sense how they can present so loving and leave so completely and utterly insensitively. Cruelty is the only word that comes to mind but that doesn't even describe the utter lack of emotions they display when they leave unexpectantly.

But, if that weren't enough, many of them try and establish (shamelessly) to re-contact and recycle us. It goes beyond comprehension that someone would put someone through the hurt and anguish again. These individuals are truly effected by deep, deep rooted pathology.

[Fr4nz]

You want closure... .take solace in that (like me) I'm sure each and every one of us did the best we could. We gave love and expected love in return but from individuals who are incapable of giving real love in return. Yes, it makes no sense how they can present so loving and leave so completely and utterly insensitively. Cruelty is the only word that comes to mind but that doesn't even describe the utter lack of emotions they display when they leave unexpectantly.

I'd go even further and call it emotional cruelty.

Just to give my experience, read what happened to me in the aftermath of our breakup, it was devastating (2nd post of the thread):

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=274152.msg12598157#msg12598157

Basically, she went having sex with her new replacement almost in front of my eyes... .while she was still kissing me 1-2 hours before. That was incredibly cruel and crazy.

[L0stboys]

My opinion is a bit more simplistic. In order for anyone to give closure it requires being in touch with their feelings. Not only how they feel but how they perceived the relationship. It requires having the ability to be introspective. The issue here is that, atleast in my case, I feel my exBPDgf was unable to reach that level of introspection without feeling too heavily wounded. This is ofcourse just my situation but I feel that when it comes to having to accept faults in a relationship it is far easier to project the issues onto someone else and grow that resentment rather than point the issues in their direction at all. We need to remember that not only is every BPD different, but also every relationship and ending is different. There are also factors away from the Personality Disorder to consider.

Also, we need to learn and accept that even if the closure was to come it would probably be so far fro mm what you considered the truth it just wouldn't be worth it to hear. We are also wounded in this matter and there is no sense in asking someone who has difficulty perceiving situations for clarity on the matter.

Love yourself my friend. Do yourself the favor and think about the wrongs that YOU made in the relationship. Love yourself and allow yourself the time to heal. Be alone. Be introspective. The greatest gift was given to you if you choose to see it. Now is the time to build yourself up to be happy for yourself. Detach with love. Find your healthy soulmate!

Much love my friend.

[hergestridge]

There are those of us who are/were stuck in a symbiosis with a BPD partner, being both abused and abuser, appearing to have our emotional goals met by the ongoing conflict. There are others who are mostly healthy people with a poor sense of boundaries who are/were "stuck" with someone they would rather leave, or perhaps hanging onto hope that the illness can be "cured".

Both these groups of people benefit from introspection, but the first group are the ones with the real problem. They will tolerate anything and their relationship to their partner is one of entitlement. The second group can end up somewhere really good if they find people who treat them right.

After I broke up with my now BPDxw I realized that I (of course) was part of the problem, but the notion that I had a 50/50 share of the terror I had been subjected to for 20 years, that was a destructive thought which I had a hard time fending of. And it was right to fend it off, because I did all I can to make our relationship work and when it didn't I tried to pull the plug on it. It didn't work because of threats and manipulations whenever the separation seemed inevitable.

There is no good blanket statement regarding "our" part of the problem. I have read this forum for a long time now and there are all kinds of people, all kinds of relationships.