What if it's true?

[DearBFF]

It is only guesswork on my part, but I think he got caught in the conflict of being terrified by the one thing he wanted: love.

It is also hard for me to sort out because there were many, many times he used the little boy act in what seemed like a fake way. He does it a lot in public. So it is also part of his mask.

This is exactly how it is with BFF.  Of everyone in her life excluding her family I believe I am the one who most shows her unconditional love.  She goes on about all of these friends she has, but they don't know her she keeps them at arm's length.  I doubt she has said she hates any of them or told them to get out of her life and they remained.  So the one person standing by, not leaving, and giving her unconditional love is the one she continually throws out of her life because she cannot accept the love.  I hate this for her... .  I especially hate that now there is this guy, this amazing guy who may actually also love her unconditionally, but she may chase him away and if he doesn't learn about the BPD he will have no understanding of what is going on.  I hate that for him... .he's a great guy!   :'(

I always wonder to myself what would I be like if I had grown up with siblings.  I think I would have been much healthier and felt stronger attachments more easily with "normal" people.  Instead, I have always felt alone and I have trouble connecting to healthy people, and always feel like I will just never find any sort of equal relationship.  I give out of love, but it is always unequal love and giving.  After a while, it takes its toll.

What kind of art do you do?  I also find art relaxing and fulfilling, but I have a hard time focusing on it with my munchkin.  I love throwing myself into a project, but that makes it hard for me to pull myself away so that I can take care of my other responsibilities.  It's like I lose myself it in.  I enjoy writing, computer art, photography, and even a bit of painting/mixed media which I don't get to do much.

If you find art a release there is a site you might like to try out.  It's called hitRECord.org and it was started by Joseph Gordon Levitt.  It's basically an online production company that makes art of all kinds and tries to sell it.  You may have noticed Season 1 of HITRECORD on TV recently on netflix.  If you are interested watch some of Joe's videos so you understand how it works and then simply hitRECord.  :-)  One of my favorite collabs is actually about Borderline Personality Disorder and I'm thinking I will work on some writing to contribute for May, Borderline Personality Disorder Awareness Month.

https://hitrecord.org/projects/2368289/contributions

Take care 

[HurtinNW]

I so appreciate all these replies. There is so much to think about.

Gotbushels, that is very helpful. I do think that being the whistleblower in my family was the healthiest thing for me to do, though at great cost. I claimed my reality and truth. My siblings who remained as the killers of the messenger have not done so well.

What you wrote about not getting caught in a prolonged counterproductive cycle is really key. I spent WAY too long trying to talk, manage, hope, compromise and work my way to a healthier relationship with family members and it never worked. I finally stepped out of the cycle by refusing to engage with them. Unfortunately there is no contact. Otherwise I was stuck in the same cycle you talk about: that my naming the dysfunctional behavior was the sin, not the behavior itself. My family will engage endlessly in making the molestation about me, and not what happened. In fact for my entire life I have never once gotten to even talk about what happened. Every conversation goes in vast circles around how I am wrong or mean or something avoidant.

This helps me understand a bit more why I keep engaging with my boyfriend long after the cycle should be telling me that the situation won't change. And I didn't realize this before: the cycle with my boyfriend is similar. It is always focusing on my behavior, not his. We never get around to talking about an actual problem. We talk about how my reactions to the problem or wrong, or something else that avoids.

DoubleAries, I do think there were warning flags. Probably a healthier person would have noted the difference between his behavior towards me those first months and how he had road rage against drivers, got angry at silly things like the music played in a cafe, and his inability to see anything wrong with his temper... .yes there were red flags. He was completely infatuated and idolizing me and that level of adoration was something I had never experienced. Probably that alone should have been a red flag.

I am starting to have to white knuckle this too. I really do not want my existing children to deal with someone who behaves like this. THAT right now is keeping me in line. I am trying to remind my child self she doesn't deserve this either. I don't want to abandon her.

I spend way too much time doing the self-examination you do. Thinking that because I made mistake A or said thing B I somehow have to go back and fix it. There is a part of that thinks I have be perfect before I can let this go. I am not sure where that comes from... .perhaps an uncomfortable fit into the victim part of the triangle.

DearBFF: thank you! I was lucky to have siblings though we don't have contact. That love was special and real. As far as my art, I am a writer and do some painting. I find going down the rabbit hole into my art a wonderful form of self-care, meditation and healing. I think any time we make art we are in touch with something far greater than ourselves. It is a pure and beautiful place for me.

[doubleAries]

yeah--I hear ya!

I have better days and worse days with it all too.

that perfectionism thing is all part of that trying to be gooder and better in order to be loved. It's a gripping and difficult pattern to break! But also, looking at it like that, makes it obvious that it's not about "him"--it's in ourselves. Pete Walkers book has an entire chapter dedicated to this alone.

I also don't have contact with family. My older brother and I are still somewhat close, but I haven't had contact with my mother for 23 years. Not going to start now either.

[patientandclear]

I spend way too much time doing the self-examination you do. Thinking that because I made mistake A or said thing B I somehow have to go back and fix it. There is a part of that thinks I have be perfect before I can let this go. I am not sure where that comes from... .perhaps an uncomfortable fit into the victim part of the triangle.

Hurt, I think it's likely either what DoubleAries said, about trying to be better/gooder and therefore earn/get the love you want so much; and/or about trying to gain control and therefore avoid great loss, a sort of PTSD-infused response to understand where the tragedy could have been avoided, in order to avoid finally accepting and grieving the loss.

[GrowThroughIt]

yeah--I hear ya!

I have better days and worse days with it all too.

that perfectionism thing is all part of that trying to be gooder and better in order to be loved. It's a gripping and difficult pattern to break! But also, looking at it like that, makes it obvious that it's not about "him"--it's in ourselves. Pete Walkers book has an entire chapter dedicated to this alone.

I also don't have contact with family. My older brother and I are still somewhat close, but I haven't had contact with my mother for 23 years. Not going to start now either.

There are many amazing posts within this thread.

Your posts are truly great!  I'm smiling from ear to ear because they are beginning to stir up insight within myself!  Thank you is what I think I'm trying to say!

Do you have any books to recommend?

[doubleAries]

the book I am recommending in this thread is by Pete Walker, called "Complex PTSD: from surviving to thriving". Pete Walker is a counselor in the San Francisco Bay area, and also has C-PTSD himself. He also has a wonderful website with lots of free info that is very useful  www.pete-walker.com/

I would point out as well that CPTSD is not recognized in the DSM5 as a diagnosis, so the more common diagnosis is PTSD, though in many ways PTSD and Complex PTSD are quite different. PTSD, in many opinions, is more appropriate for single or clustered trauma events (like rape or war trauma, for instance) whereas the "complex" in CPTSD pertains more to lengthy, ongoing trauma (like child abuse and molestation). PTSD generally entails some "shutting down" methods, whereas CPTSD (because the trauma continues for years) entails more complex coping methods.

[HurtinNW]

the book I am recommending in this thread is by Pete Walker, called "Complex PTSD: from surviving to thriving". Pete Walker is a counselor in the San Francisco Bay area, and also has C-PTSD himself. He also has a wonderful website with lots of free info that is very useful  www.pete-walker.com/

I would point out as well that CPTSD is not recognized in the DSM5 as a diagnosis, so the more common diagnosis is PTSD, though in many ways PTSD and Complex PTSD are quite different. PTSD, in many opinions, is more appropriate for single or clustered trauma events (like rape or war trauma, for instance) whereas the "complex" in CPTSD pertains more to lengthy, ongoing trauma (like child abuse and molestation). PTSD generally entails some "shutting down" methods, whereas CPTSD (because the trauma continues for years) entails more complex coping methods.

This is fascinating to me. I've been diagnosed with PTSD for years. I wonder if I am more C-PTSD given the lengthy, ongoing and multifaceted trauma I experienced. I was pretty much in a state of terror until age nine, horribly abused and in many different ways for many years, and then on the streets by age 15 and suffered trauma then too. I'm going to order his book, I've been reading the website. Thanks!

[Narkiss]

As I read all the insights in these posts, I keep thinking that we are so drawn to pwBPD but we probably the last people on earth who should be in a relationship with them (talking about myself also). Their push/pull awaken our abandonment fears. I don't hear from my pwBPD and immediately I feel overwhelmingly bad and that I have done something wrong or that I am not loveable/compelling enough. We twist our selves in knots to soothe them, be mind-readers and anticipate their feelings to avoid triggering -- in hopes that someone will do this for us -- and they are utterly incapable of it. We try to make them feel better about themselves, and we feel worse about ourselves.

[HurtinNW]

As I read all the insights in these posts, I keep thinking that we are so drawn to pwBPD but we probably the last people on earth who should be in a relationship with them (talking about myself also). Their push/pull awaken our abandonment fears. I don't hear from my pwBPD and immediately I feel overwhelmingly bad and that I have done something wrong or that I am not loveable/compelling enough. We twist our selves in knots to soothe them, be mind-readers and anticipate their feelings to avoid triggering -- in hopes that someone will do this for us -- and they are utterly incapable of it. We try to make them feel better about themselves, and we feel worse about ourselves.

This. I think this is very true for me. And every day I still blame myself. I see his side. He doesn't see mine, and I don't think he is capable of doing so.

[doubleAries]

but the good news is, all the things that get triggered in us (through these relationships) gives us the opportunity to examine those triggers, acknowledge the true origins, and begin the process of healing our own wounds, through grieving the original wounds.

"Avoiding being triggered" only keeps that box o' hurt slammed shut, waiting to be attached to the next person, and the next, and the next... .(so we can leak a little out, without actually examining it).

Not that I'm recommending staying in dangerous relationships to get triggered (a counseling office is a better place for that). But we do have the opportunity to own our own feelings, where they came from, to start grieving for what happened to us (rather then ONLY being angry about it), and heal ourselves instead of hoping our "trigger man" will do it for us.

[HurtinNW]

DoubleAries, I am realizing how very true that is. I like how Pete Walker talks about how if we heal from our wounds we can attain levels of insight and emotional intelligence others cannot. I know this has happened for me in my art. My higher self shows then, and I have done things with my art that I don't think would have happened if not for my history. My PTSD does allow for a certain kind of radical empathy with others, where I can "channel" them as a writer. If I could heal more completely I think that emotional intelligence would inform all my life.

I've been thinking about my relationship history. I left home very young, at age 15. For most my life I have had a sexual partner.

Looking back, I have a history of trying to work through my issues in relationships. In my teen years I was with abusive men. I thought I had changed for the better when I met my ex of 15 years. In many ways he is a nice guy. He is also super flaky, irresponsible, and a heavy drinker. Our relationship was relatively stable, and we were good friends for quite some time. But looking back I can see a lot of times where I "poked" him. I tried to get emotional responses from him. I was trying to get triggered! Other times I got triggered by accident. Luckily he never responded with too much anger, and I think some healing took place, by virtue of him not getting too upset and being a stable, devoted presence. I knew in my heart he would never leave me. But I wasn't healing in a mindful way, and neither of us were learning ways to communicate and grow together. I was very much the "boss" of the relationship. I fell apart late in the relationship due a series of horrible family traumas, including suicides. He was unable to help due to his own issues, and instead of finally grieving and healing I acted out in other ways. I was the one who ended it. I never fully examined my own behavior in that relationship.

After dating for some time, and picking the wrong guys, I met my current ex. He seemed to fit much the same profile of my longterm ex: a guy who seemed devoted to me and would let me be the boss, in addition to be everything I had ever wanted. I thought I had found my soul mate. But this time something much different happened when I got triggered: he raged. The gloves came off. If I was looking to be triggered in order to work through my issues, he did it for me and then some. I wanted him to help me heal, and instead it felt like he was hurting me more.

I need to own my role in that, including the times I have felt "stirred up," which probably means I was experiencing an emotional flashback, and instead of naming it I would become anxious and upset. I wanted him to act out the drama but in a different way: I wanted him to be love me through it. That was never going to happen.

Instead the push-pull happened, which was like waking up in a different nightmare. I can't blame him for not healing my childhood trauma. That is on me.

It is hard for me to separate my hunger to finally be loved from my need to heal myself first. I need to grieve my first loss, which is the loss of mother love. I'm not sure how to do that.

[doubleAries]

well, that's what I'm saying... .when we don't know how to do it (heal the original wounds), what we are saying is we don't know how to access those emotions. Because we locked them away so well as children when we COULDN'T cope with them. So we unconsciously seek out people who can help us re-enact it. No, not the exact same scenarios (but sometimes eerily similar), just the same emotions.

But if we don't know that is what we are doing, then we don't make the connection--of the emotions to the original wounds. We simply blame the person we have sought as our "trigger man". So yeah, we are experiencing the emotions again, but not in a healing way. Just reliving it. Making the connection--re-connecting with our feelings--is a HUGE part of the healing.

My ex has a sadistic streak for sure. It took him a while, but he figured out--probably not even consciously--where my Achilles heel was and he slashed at it often. No, not to hurt me--to make himself feel powerful and superior. Those are more wounds to heal. The shame and embarrassment I feel at being in and STAYING in that situation for so long. But he didn't install that Achilles heel in me. In fact, neither did my parents--I did. It was my coping method. The method of detaching from my own overwhelming feelings, stuffing them away in some dark corner, and being numb instead. Now it is up to me to disassemble and replace that coping method with something more healthy and appropriate. Otherwise, what kind of people am I going to attract, who will mesh well with my coping methods? Uh, people with compatible dysfunctional coping methods.

It is still difficult for me to access those emotions on my own. I sit on my couch and think about a particular chunk of abuse from childhood and I feel-----nothing. NO WAIT! There's a spark of something there... .it's anger. The anger at what happened to me, which is a layer of protection from the fear of dealing with the hurt (that's what set the coping method in motion in the first place, right? the overwhelming fear of the too complicated [for a child] emotions). So a good place to start, is with that anger. It's the saran wrap around the grief. And it doesn't happen all in one "session". It doesn't happen overnight. We deal with it in pieces as big as we can handle, and in layers.

[unicorn2014]

Hi Hurt in NW, from my perspective that relationship doesn't sound healthy at all. I've had problems in my relationship but my pwBPD hasn't cut quite as deep as yours.

Do you recognize that the way he's talking is verbally abusive?

[HurtinNW]

Hi Hurt in NW, from my perspective that relationship doesn't sound healthy at all. I've had problems in my relationship but my pwBPD hasn't cut quite as deep as yours.

Do you recognize that the way he's talking is verbally abusive?

Hi Unicorn! Yes, I realize he has been verbally and emotionally abusive. I've posted elsewhere I have made the decision to detach. It is very painful for me.

[HurtinNW]

well, that's what I'm saying... .when we don't know how to do it (heal the original wounds), what we are saying is we don't know how to access those emotions. Because we locked them away so well as children when we COULDN'T cope with them. So we unconsciously seek out people who can help us re-enact it. No, not the exact same scenarios (but sometimes eerily similar), just the same emotions.

But if we don't know that is what we are doing, then we don't make the connection--of the emotions to the original wounds. We simply blame the person we have sought as our "trigger man". So yeah, we are experiencing the emotions again, but not in a healing way. Just reliving it. Making the connection--re-connecting with our feelings--is a HUGE part of the healing.

My ex has a sadistic streak for sure. It took him a while, but he figured out--probably not even consciously--where my Achilles heel was and he slashed at it often. No, not to hurt me--to make himself feel powerful and superior. Those are more wounds to heal. The shame and embarrassment I feel at being in and STAYING in that situation for so long. But he didn't install that Achilles heel in me. In fact, neither did my parents--I did. It was my coping method. The method of detaching from my own overwhelming feelings, stuffing them away in some dark corner, and being numb instead. Now it is up to me to disassemble and replace that coping method with something more healthy and appropriate. Otherwise, what kind of people am I going to attract, who will mesh well with my coping methods? Uh, people with compatible dysfunctional coping methods.

It is still difficult for me to access those emotions on my own. I sit on my couch and think about a particular chunk of abuse from childhood and I feel-----nothing. NO WAIT! There's a spark of something there... .it's anger. The anger at what happened to me, which is a layer of protection from the fear of dealing with the hurt (that's what set the coping method in motion in the first place, right? the overwhelming fear of the too complicated [for a child] emotions). So a good place to start, is with that anger. It's the saran wrap around the grief. And it doesn't happen all in one "session". It doesn't happen overnight. We deal with it in pieces as big as we can handle, and in layers.

Yes, I understand. I am just processing it out loud. My ex has a sadistic streak as well, but for too long I have focused on that instead of why it hurts so bad, and why I return to the hurt. He found my weak spots, yes. I pretty much handed them to him. But by focusing on him I keep from focusing on me.

My coping methods when triggered have largely been rage turned outwards (success) and self-blame (feeling unloveable). I also need to change those coping methods.

I also have a hard time getting in touch with my childhood fear, terror and hurt. It is there, but part of it feels so ordinary to me. I mean, that was my normal. The small part of me that said this isn't right was always there, but it is a small voice among much larger ones. I know that underneath there is a lot of anger. There is rage against my mother for doing what she did.

[unicorn2014]

Hi Hurt in NW, from my perspective that relationship doesn't sound healthy at all. I've had problems in my relationship but my pwBPD hasn't cut quite as deep as yours.

Do you recognize that the way he's talking is verbally abusive?

Hi Unicorn! Yes, I realize he has been verbally and emotionally abusive. I've posted elsewhere I have made the decision to detach. It is very painful for me.

Yes I remember reading that. I haven't decided to detach yet, however each time my pwBPD abandons me or treats me harshly I do a little more work on detaching.