Do they love in every relationship they are in?

[HurtinNW]

So I'm guessing no one is special in the BPD world except family

I think I disagree. Of course some lovers/ex-lovers mean more than others--even over the long haul. That's just human nature. You need to separate that from the volatile emotions of a given moment. 

Yeah, I agree with steelwork here. My ex said that I was family - even after the breakup - and I do credit her attempt to follow through on that for ten months after we were no longer together. She just couldn't hang in there - I was too much of a trigger for her at that point, through very little fault of my own. I'd almost state the opposite: the more "special" you were the worse they'll treat you after the honeymoon phase. It's the corresponding low to the initial high of idealization.

This was my experience exactly. I was the only woman my ex ever proposed to, he was absolutely high on me, and blasted his joy to the universe. It was a mighty long, hard tumble off that pedestal for me, and his rage at my betrayal of his ideal was profound. And I honestly think he felt betrayed. How and why he assigned reasons to, from how I did the dishes to my opinions. He lacks the ability to identify where that deep rage and fear comes from inside him. He had to make it justified.

One of the really sad things is I think his profound devaluation of me caused reverberations throughout his life. He became almost poisoned with anger, and that has impacted all aspects of his life. He presents as depressed, but it is a sophistic depression, and all about his narcissistic rage and collapse.

For my side, the fall from idealization to devaluation really impacted me, too, causing not only emotional distress but affecting many aspects of my life, including my health. At this point I don't think he is capable of even thinking about me without rage, anger and blame. I have been painted blacker than black.

[MapleBob]

For my side, the fall from idealization to devaluation really impacted me, too, causing not only emotional distress but affecting many aspects of my life, including my health. At this point I don't think he is capable of even thinking about me without rage, anger and blame. I have been painted blacker than black.

I reached out to mine recently, just to test the waters... .She responded kindly, but she literally said "I find it much easier this way" ie. I can't keep my head on straight with you in my life. So, yeah, that rings true.

[vortex of confusion]

For my side, the fall from idealization to devaluation really impacted me, too, causing not only emotional distress but affecting many aspects of my life, including my health. At this point I don't think he is capable of even thinking about me without rage, anger and blame. I have been painted blacker than black.

I reached out to mine recently, just to test the waters... .She responded kindly, but she literally said "I find it much easier this way" ie. I can't keep my head on straight with you in my life. So, yeah, that rings true.

This brings up a question for me. My stbx acts like nothing is wrong and nothing happened. He did some pretty horrific things to me. I can't be in the same room with him without being anxious. When I think of him, I get angry. I find myself feeling so many of the things that I had repressed just to survive in the relationship without making things any worse. Him acting like everything is normal is very painful. I made the mistake of giving him a hug. He took that as an opportunity to try to kiss me. It was disgusting given our history.

My question is why is it helpful to try to figure them out? How is it helpful to know whether or not they love in every relationship they are in? There are a lot of different types of love (romantic, platonic, etc.) I think, for me, it helps to stop worrying so much about whether or not he loved me. He probable did and still does. The kind of love he had and was willing to give me is NOT what I wanted or needed. It did not fit MY definition of what I thought love should be.

[WoundedBibi]

I think it is a question NONs have at the start, when the breakup is fresh "was the love real?". When we progress in our healing we realise it doesn't matter because the way a pwBPD loves is not mature enough to last or to deepen.

[MapleBob]

My question is why is it helpful to try to figure them out? How is it helpful to know whether or not they love in every relationship they are in?

I think it helps to calm the winds in the "vortex of confusion"!  

The endings of these relationships are so disturbing and confusing and shocking and difficult that it's hard to make heads or tails out of our part of the responsibility in being discarded (or forced to walk away). We're all here trying to move forward, but moving forward requires sifting through the confusing mixed signals to find some kind of relatable truths for ourselves. I guess?

It's like we were writing this great romance novel with our partners and BAM out of nowhere it's suddenly turned into a murder mystery. Or was it a murder mystery all along?  

[Confused108]

My question is why is it helpful to try to figure them out? How is it helpful to know whether or not they love in every relationship they are in?

I think it helps to calm the winds in the "vortex of confusion"!  

The endings of these relationships are so disturbing and confusing and shocking and difficult that it's hard to make heads or tails out of our part of the responsibility in being discarded (or forced to walk away). We're all here trying to move forward, but moving forward requires sifting through the confusing mixed signals to find some kind of relatable truths for ourselves. I guess?

It's like we were writing this great romance novel with our partners and BAM out of nowhere it's suddenly turned into a murder mystery. Or was it a murder mystery all along?  

oh Bob I love this analogy! Did they love us? Can they love anyone? In my opinion with my ex no I don't think she can. She herself told me she did. Not k ow how to love. She also told me she was not strong enough for love. Jesus ya think the red flag was waving in my face then? Yea!

[MapleBob]

My question is why is it helpful to try to figure them out? How is it helpful to know whether or not they love in every relationship they are in?

I think it helps to calm the winds in the "vortex of confusion"!  

The endings of these relationships are so disturbing and confusing and shocking and difficult that it's hard to make heads or tails out of our part of the responsibility in being discarded (or forced to walk away). We're all here trying to move forward, but moving forward requires sifting through the confusing mixed signals to find some kind of relatable truths for ourselves. I guess?

It's like we were writing this great romance novel with our partners and BAM out of nowhere it's suddenly turned into a murder mystery. Or was it a murder mystery all along?  

oh Bob I love this analogy! Did they love us? Can they love anyone? In my opinion with my ex no I don't think she can. She herself told me she did. Not k ow how to love. She also told me she was not strong enough for love. Jesus ya think the red flag was waving in my face then? Yea!

Ha, exactly! Mine, very early on, said that she just wanted "someone strong enough to do the work if things got hard," but she also told me that she had a tendency to "bail when things get hard" (but that she didn't want to do that with me   ).

And how did things wind up? With her not being strong enough to do the work when things got hard. Guess I listened real good to the first part and mostly ignored the second part!  

[Confused108]

My question is why is it helpful to try to figure them out? How is it helpful to know whether or not they love in every relationship they are in?

I think it helps to calm the winds in the "vortex of confusion"! 

The endings of these relationships are so disturbing and confusing and shocking and difficult that it's hard to make heads or tails out of our part of the responsibility in being discarded (or forced to walk away). We're all here trying to move forward, but moving forward requires sifting through the confusing mixed signals to find some kind of relatable truths for ourselves. I guess?

It's like we were writing this great romance novel with our partners and BAM out of nowhere it's suddenly turned into a murder mystery. Or was it a murder mystery all along? 

oh Bob I love this analogy! Did they love us? Can they love anyone? In my opinion with my ex no I don't think she can. She herself told me she did. Not k ow how to love. She also told me she was not strong enough for love. Jesus ya think the red flag was waving in my face then? Yea!

Ha, exactly! Mine, very early on, said that she just wanted "someone strong enough to do the work if things got hard," but she also told me that she had a tendency to "bail when things get hard" (but that she didn't want to do that with me   ).

And how did things wind up? With her not being strong enough to do the work when things got hard. Guess I listened real good to the first part and mostly ignored the second part! 

My question is why is it helpful to try to figure them out? How is it helpful to know whether or not they love in every relationship they are in?

I think it helps to calm the winds in the "vortex of confusion"!  

The endings of these relationships are so disturbing and confusing and shocking and difficult that it's hard to make heads or tails out of our part of the responsibility in being discarded (or forced to walk away). We're all here trying to move forward, but moving forward requires sifting through the confusing mixed signals to find some kind of relatable truths for ourselves. I guess?

It's like we were writing this great romance novel with our partners and BAM out of nowhere it's suddenly turned into a murder mystery. Or was it a murder mystery all along?  

oh Bob I love this analogy! Did they love us? Can they love anyone? In my opinion with my ex no I don't think she can. She herself told me she did. Not k ow how to love. She also told me she was not strong enough for love. Jesus ya think the red flag was waving in my face then? Yea!

Ha, exactly! Mine, very early on, said that she just wanted "someone strong enough to do the work if things got hard," but she also told me that she had a tendency to "bail when things get hard" (but that she didn't want to do that with me   ).

And how did things wind up? With her not being strong enough to do the work when things got hard. Guess I listened real good to the first part and mostly ignored the second part!  

! Yea I can remember saying to my Ex that I thought she just really hated me after our speeration in 1987 and that she didn't want me. Now I know that is wasn't true. Her response to me was no it was never that... .I JUST RUN AWAY! Now this was told to me last June and yet another BIG RED FLAG I stupidly chose to ignore!

[vortex of confusion]

I think it helps to calm the winds in the "vortex of confusion"!  

Awesome! And so very true.

The endings of these relationships are so disturbing and confusing and shocking and difficult that it's hard to make heads or tails out of our part of the responsibility in being discarded (or forced to walk away). We're all here trying to move forward, but moving forward requires sifting through the confusing mixed signals to find some kind of relatable truths for ourselves. I guess?

I still struggle with finding some kind of relatable truth for myself. I can't live with the idea that he never loved me. I cannot wrap my mind around that since we have 4 kids together and I spent 18 years of my life trying to sort through the mixed signals of being painted white verbally while being devalued by his actions.

I think part of what has helped me to sort through the vortex of confusion is to stop giving a rat's patooty about him and how he felt and what his experience was. I am questioning whether or not any of the good times even existed.

It's like we were writing this great romance novel with our partners and BAM out of nowhere it's suddenly turned into a murder mystery. Or was it a murder mystery all along?  

HA! Yep, it is like something you would see on one of those crime shows where the perpetrator lulls you into their trap. I think it was a murder mystery all along. I was just too naive (almost wrote stupid).

[rfriesen]

vortex, I went through a phase immediately after my final breakup with my ex where I felt incredibly naive and stupid. In the prior few months, while we were on/off, I had been pouring my heart out to her (long long emails every day, as we were in different cities) about all the things I found difficult in our relationship and all the ways I was thinking about my personal flaws and things about me that she said hurt her and made her angry. Then I found out she had been looking for my replacement that whole time and it crushed me. I had never poured my heart out like that and made such a sustained effort to understand all that was "wrong" with me. And she never opened up in that way with me.

But the truth is, for me at least, the phase of beating myself up as "naive and stupid" was a defence mechanism. I can see that now. I felt so vulnerable for having put myself out there like that and having been repaid with what felt like callousness and cruelty. But slowly I'm learning to feel happy that I was so "naive" -- it means I was open and sincere and I never descended into hating my ex and attacking her in revenge. I still feel blindsided and stupid sometimes, but I like that better than trying to "play" her too and "win" some kind of power struggle.

And now as I get a bit more of a balanced view on our relationship, I know she did love and try to connect in her own ways. She carries a lot of sadness and pain, which she hides very well in public and hid from me for the first several months of our relationship. Lately she's been trying to reach out to me, but with so many walls up - she reaches out in anger, or sends songs, or writes sexually explicit emails ... .all because she finds it too hard to say something like, "You know, I'm hurting. Our relationship was unhealthy and I was cruel. I don't know what to make of it, but I wish we could have an open honest conversation." I really believe she would like to do that, but it's just too psychologically demanding for her.

So at the end of the day, I'm glad I was naive and stupid and not trying to play a million head games. It hurt like hell when I realised what was going on. But now I feel like I left my ex knowing that I genuinely cared. And even if she's not well enough to reach out in a healthy way, I take some comfort in her knowing that I did care for her -- at one point as we were in the immediate aftermath of a breakup phase and I was looking for a way to comfort her, she said to me, "You're the only person who's ever stayed, and actually wanted to still know me." Sadly, that didn't stop her rage and suspicions and betrayals ... .but I'm happy knowing that on some level she recognises it.

That said, our relationship lasted only a year and a half. I can't imagine 18 years of sorting through all that emotional pain and hardship and trying to deal with the aftermath of so much time invested. I guess I only wanted to say that, for me, I've actually come around to finding comfort in the fact that I was stupid and naive. It means I didn't automatically assume the worst of the person I was in love with.

[WoundedBibi]

vortex, I went through a phase immediately after my final breakup with my ex where I felt incredibly naive and stupid. In the prior few months, while we were on/off, I had been pouring my heart out to her (long long emails every day, as we were in different cities) about all the things I found difficult in our relationship and all the ways I was thinking about my personal flaws and things about me that she said hurt her and made her angry. Then I found out she had been looking for my replacement that whole time and it crushed me. I had never poured my heart out like that and made such a sustained effort to understand all that was "wrong" with me. And she never opened up in that way with me.

But the truth is, for me at least, the phase of beating myself up as "naive and stupid" was a defence mechanism. I can see that now. I felt so vulnerable for having put myself out there like that and having been repaid with what felt like callousness and cruelty. But slowly I'm learning to feel happy that I was so "naive" -- it means I was open and sincere and I never descended into hating my ex and attacking her in revenge. I still feel blindsided and stupid sometimes, but I like that better than trying to "play" her too and "win" some kind of power struggle.

And now as I get a bit more of a balanced view on our relationship, I know she did love and try to connect in her own ways. She carries a lot of sadness and pain, which she hides very well in public and hid from me for the first several months of our relationship. Lately she's been trying to reach out to me, but with so many walls up - she reaches out in anger, or sends songs, or writes sexually explicit emails ... .all because she finds it too hard to say something like, "You know, I'm hurting. Our relationship was unhealthy and I was cruel. I don't know what to make of it, but I wish we could have an open honest conversation." I really believe she would like to do that, but it's just too psychologically demanding for her.

So at the end of the day, I'm glad I was naive and stupid and not trying to play a million head games. It hurt like hell when I realised what was going on. But now I feel like I left my ex knowing that I genuinely cared. And even if she's not well enough to reach out in a healthy way, I take some comfort in her knowing that I did care for her -- at one point as we were in the immediate aftermath of a breakup phase and I was looking for a way to comfort her, she said to me, "You're the only person who's ever stayed, and actually wanted to still know me." Sadly, that didn't stop her rage and suspicions and betrayals ... .but I'm happy knowing that on some level she recognises it.

That said, our relationship lasted only a year and a half. I can't imagine 18 years of sorting through all that emotional pain and hardship and trying to deal with the aftermath of so much time invested. I guess I only wanted to say that, for me, I've actually come around to finding comfort in the fact that I was stupid and naive. It means I didn't automatically assume the worst of the person I was in love with.

You were the 'understanding' child and your ex the lost child.

[rfriesen]

You were the 'understanding' child and your ex the lost child.

Yes, that could be. I hope to be able to keep a "child-like" quality in new relationships -- to the extent that means starting innocent and not assuming the worst. But hopefully I can also now recognise the unhealthy manic side that I sometimes fall for. It's a hard balance -- to remain open and trusting while not being blind to warning signs. For now I just want to work on understanding myself better and why I craved such an intense connection. I think self-awareness is probably the key to striking that proper balance between openness and healthy boundaries. But it is hard to let go of the idea of connecting to another person with all boundaries and caution thrown to the wind. It's that desire that I'm struggling to understand and control.

[WoundedBibi]

You were the 'understanding' child and your ex the lost child.

Yes, that could be. I hope to be able to keep a "child-like" quality in new relationships -- to the extent that means starting innocent and not assuming the worst. But hopefully I can also now recognise the unhealthy manic side that I sometimes fall for. It's a hard balance -- to remain open and trusting while not being blind to warning signs. For now I just want to work on understanding myself better and why I craved such an intense connection. I think self-awareness is probably the key to striking that proper balance between openness and healthy boundaries. But it is hard to let go of the idea of connecting to another person with all boundaries and caution thrown to the wind. It's that desire that I'm struggling to understand and control.

e

It's from that 2010 post that was reposted today. Maybe it holds some truth for you too. It certainly does for me.

[rfriesen]

Just read it, WoundedBibi. Thanks for pointing me to it. That post captures my relationship with my ex so perfectly I can hardly believe it. Very helpful read for me, especially as it adds an even greater sense of certainty to my decision to let go. A decision that still hurts a tremendous amount at times, but that I absolutely needed to make.

[WoundedBibi]

Just read it, WoundedBibi. Thanks for pointing me to it. That post captures my relationship with my ex so perfectly I can hardly believe it. Very helpful read for me, especially as it adds an even greater sense of certainty to my decision to let go. A decision that still hurts a tremendous amount at times, but that I absolutely needed to make.

Same for me. Apart from the clinging bit it was if someone had been there to describe it...