Advice from Psychologist about how to deal with vague put downs

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Background.  I took a "shot" at validating when the target wasn't clear.  The word track that I tried to use was "That must have been hard for you... ."

Likely she was too amped up to deal with any kind of empathy.

She didn't raise her voice... .but she got up... .patted my leg and said "you can pander to me all you want, but I'm not going to change my mind"

I kept my mouth shut... .she left the room.

My goal was to not take the bait. 

Psychologist had other interpretation of what she was after.

She believes that my wife makes herself emotionally safe... .or better... .by putting me down... or putting me in my place.  That she really didn't want a fight... .just wanted to let me know where I stand... .and made herself feel better because of it.

Since she didn't yell and wasn't abusive... .my goal is to let is "wash off" me and not give it another thought.

That if she is allowed to do this... without it blowing up... .that this may die off as she feels emotionally safer.

Bottom line... .don't argue about who is superior... or inferior.  My wife can think what she thinks... .no response needed to her words.

FF

[formflier]

Background.  I took a "shot" at validating when the target wasn't clear.  The word track that I tried to use was "That must have been hard for you... ."

Likely she was too amped up to deal with any kind of empathy.

She didn't raise her voice... .but she got up... .patted my leg and said "you can pander to me all you want, but I'm not going to change my mind"

I kept my mouth shut... .she left the room.

My goal was to not take the bait. 

Psychologist had other interpretation of what she was after.

She believes that my wife makes herself emotionally safe... .or better... .by putting me down... or putting me in my place.  That she really didn't want a fight... .just wanted to let me know where I stand... .and made herself feel better because of it.

Since she didn't yell and wasn't abusive... .my goal is to let is "wash off" me and not give it another thought.

That if she is allowed to do this... without it blowing up... .that this may die off as she feels emotionally safer.

Bottom line... .don't argue about who is superior... or inferior.  My wife can think what she thinks... .no response needed to her words.

FF

[KateCat]

Thank you for reporting on this.

What the psychologist is saying has the ring of truth to me. It will likely prove very helpful to adopt this technique.

I would also love to hear anything the psychologist (eventually) has to say about handling these things during social situations. Have you mentioned how your wife manages during dinner parties with other couples, for instance? Is there a need to find some response to some of the stranger things your wife may say when others are present?

Or maybe the psychologist will suggest that socializing outside the family unit is just too stressful for your wife. Anyway, I'm eager to hear more from your psychologist as things unfold over time. Probably a lot of time.

[SamwizeGamgee]

Interesting take, and yes, the P might have good insight.
I came from a background of being a people-pleaser, and caretaker of sorts, but that was tempered by my career choices and life including some hard knocks, including military.  Left to my own, I would want to figure out what someone meant, what they wanted, what is best for me to do.  In my present state, realized in full only recently, I have turned-down that need to figure out what and why of someone's behavior, and turned up the DGAF*.

It has helped me to let things "wash off" as you describe.  I realize there's power in leaving my wife alone, although it feels bad sometimes letting her struggle in her own misunderstandings and dark confusion.  I doubt P's teach DGAF, at least in those terms , but learning to let go is good.

*DGAF = Don't Give A F**k

[formflier]

So... for those that have never heard me describe this Psychologist.

PhD type... .30ish years in business.  I need to ask her exactly sometime.  In true southern gentleman fashion... .I've never inquired about her age.  She asked once when I was born (1969) and described some very adult things she was doing then.  My guess is that she is in her 60s... .perhaps upper 50s... .but my money is on 60s.

There is a matter of fact way that my grandma (dad's mom) and other grandmas talk to kids and people.  They care... they also don't beat around the bush... .this is the way life is.  They are also confident.  I hope this is making sense.

Anyway... .she shows me a video of her favorite comedian.  Part of the guys act was to smash fruit and it would splatter onto the audience.  The first few rows of people were given plastic they could pull up to keep the splatter off them... .if they wanted.

Anyone predicting the point yet?  I didn't get it at first.

My life with my wife is a lot like going to that comedy show.  I've got a front row seat.  If I make a choice to stay at the show there is going to be splatter.  That's just what that show is like.  

It would be wrong for me to complain about the show.  That's what this guy does... .

I can let it splatter on me... and wash it off later.

I can get some plastic... .and cover with that when I want.

Or I can leave the show.

And... .if I get in the right frame of mind... .some of the stuff is kinda funny.

My choice right now is to work on that plastic... .and knowing when to "pull it up" so the splatter washes off.

FF

[KateCat]

DGAF works wonderfully well for me almost all of the time now, as I don't have children. But I surely did care when my elderly father-in-law was still alive and his mentally ill son was verbally contemptuous of this gentlemanly 95-year-old man. Never figured out what to do about that.

I'm all ears for what your psychologist suggests next for the family unit.

[chump]

Anyway... .she shows me a video of her favorite comedian.  Part of the guys act was to smash fruit and it would splatter onto the audience.  The first few rows of people were given plastic they could pull up to keep the splatter off them... .if they wanted.

Anyone predicting the point yet?  I didn't get it at first.

My life with my wife is a lot like going to that comedy show.  I've got a front row seat.  If I make a choice to stay at the show there is going to be splatter.  That's just what that show is like.  

It would be wrong for me to complain about the show.  That's what this guy does... .

I can let it splatter on me... and wash it off later.

I can get some plastic... .and cover with that when I want.

Or I can leave the show.

And... .if I get in the right frame of mind... .some of the stuff is kinda funny.

My choice right now is to work on that plastic... .and knowing when to "pull it up" so the splatter washes off.

FF

Love the Gallagher analogy.  A fresh way of thinking about boundaries.  Love it.

Chump

[formflier]

We have been talking more about family.

My wife has been surprisingly open (P thinks its due to her feeling "safer" about dysfunctional things in her family and how she reacted to them growing up.

My focus has been on listening... .light validation.  

Her general thoughts are that my focus should not be on fixing.  Focus on relationships.  Being present with each kid and trying to carve out time "to be in their world".

Keep focusing on empathy first... .leave fixing and "guidance" to when I'm really... really sure that it is needed.

There is a lot of stuff from my FOO here.  I was not raised in a home that validated emotions.  We praised performance.  We didn't invalidate... .I never remember being told... ."don't feel that way", but I was sort of left to sort out my emotions on my own, rather than having a parent that was there with me when I was sad... or glad.

I'm seeing fruit of this effort.  Particularly in D5.

From a boundaries point of view:  The plan is to provide a safe structure for my wife to grow and heal... .or do whatever she wants.  I provide structure and some safety... .I provide some relationship to her (hopefully in healthy way)... .and then see what happens.

But... .my hands on are my steering wheel... .my wife's hands are on hers... .

FF

[HopefulDad]

Even if Gallagher is your P's favorite comedian, I'm sure she would agree that his act gets old fast.  I doubt she's buying a ticket to see him every day.

I applaud anyone and everyone who has conditioned themselves to truly let the never ending barrage of BPD-driven snide comments slide right off their backs.  I tried and pretended it didn't phase me, but ended up building resentment instead.  But at the same time I don't consider my leaving a failure, either.  Being sick inside wasn't good for me or my kids.  I'm in a much better place now.

I hope that as you attempt to deal with the vague put downs, you stay mindful of whether you are truly learning to let these go or are just stockpiling resentment in silence.

[formflier]

 But at the same time I don't consider my leaving a failure, either.  

Nope... .it certainly isn't.  If you don't want to be at she show anymore... .you make a choice to leave.  No failure in that.

When it comes down to it, it's about understanding and making choices.

There is also a part of it to realize where you would like to make a choice, but one isn't available.  Such as... .boy... .I wish this guy would get new jokes. 

That's not your choice.

FF

[KateCat]

HopefulDad, I'm confident you made a healthy choice.

Formflier, one aspect of your situation strikes me as virtually unique among people who have participated in this forum. Ten people in your "nuclear family." Something novel maybe for a veteran psychologist to contemplate and work with, and then contemplate and work with some more. For you it makes a lot of sense to stay and take the long view, I would think.

[formflier]

Yep

The P has made a big point to me that while we are the same parents, each of the kids did NOT grow up in the same family

She keeps stressing to me that D5s experience is so radically different from D19, that it would be incorrect of me to assume I need to parent her the same.

She stressed that this would even be the case if my wife was "normal" and I never had ptsd or even if I wasn't in the military.

The first family therapist we had in the last state we lived in was male PhD type.  He beat the drum pretty hard as well about having a unique relationship with each kid.  :)o NOT treat them all the same.

This P is beating the same drum.  

Yes... it makes sense for me to take long view.  I am responsible for my family... .HOWEVER... .(enter grandma P talking)... . You have to think your actions and words through to make sure they are healthy.

A lot of what we practice is "thinking things through".  So, think about message first.   Then think about how it likely will be perceived, does it validate... .is it possible to invalidate with it... .does it communicate a value... .does it blame... .etc etc

FF

[SamwizeGamgee]

Re.: Thinking through.  I have internalized my new rules of communication with my wife: they include vetting carefully what I say and then dressing it up with all the supportive, sugar coating I can fit onto it.  I picture myself talking to a toddler who is holding the pin down on a hand grenade.

Until I understood BPD, my communications strategy was to finally shut down.  It never seemed to fail that she could twist, recall, mince, and use against me anything I said.  So, I stopped.  Wasn't healthy at all. 

[formflier]

Yep... that's healthy... .to examine what you want to say.

Especially if you do this to all your relationships. 

If you treat your wife a "special" way... .it's easy to build resentment.

Now... no lie... .I try to validate my wife more than anyone else.  But I am conscious and looking for ways to validate others.  More of a new way of thinking, vice a special way of thinking... .just for my wife.

FF

Dude... .I love the analogy.    Toddler and hand grenade.