Is it so wrong to think that the replacement is in for a short, sharp shock?

[Hopeful83]

Hi all,

I have more of a general musing than anything else to share with you... .

I've noticed in this later stage of my healing that I'm starting to really face up to the negative aspects of my relationship, namely my ex's horrific rages that also included suicide threats. I had to endure shouting, screaming, swearing, physical manhandling - he even slapped me across the face once. My ex would also sometimes tie a belt around his neck as I watched on in horror, and then had to try and overcome his strength in order to loosen the noose.

Now, the reason I'm mentioning all this is that I've noticed that by reminding myself of these aspects of the relationship, I'm speeding up my healing. When everything first fell apart a year ago, I didn't want to have a black/white view of my relationship - if it was 100 per cent horrific, I would have never had stayed as long as I did, after all. My ex had many, many wonderful qualities and I loved being with him. But the problem is, when I think of those wonderful qualities, it sets me back a little bit because I find myself longing for him and the relationship.

So when this now happens, I remind myself of the awful rages. They were horrendous - I should not kid myself about that! I'm a peaceful person - I like peace, quiet and calm. If I have a conflict with someone, I believe it should be resolved in an adult, non-aggressive/abusive manner. My ex partner did not respect this at all, and I now resent him for that. Reminding myself that, in fact, the relationship was no dream relationship, I'm able to look forward to the future and the prospect of meeting a more stable man. My ex had many, many issues and unless he faces up to them he'll never be at peace - and he'll continue make life for those around him hell.

The other thing that sometimes sets me back is the fact I think of my ex's replacement and I get angry (she was shameless, showed no remorse, they were engaged within two months of us breaking up). I sometimes wonder if I got to 'break him in' for her, so to speak, and she's now reaping the benefits of my relationship with him. But then I tell myself that the likelihood of this is next to nothing - the guy went from saying I was the love of his life, to getting engaged to her within weeks, and I'm supposed to believe he's changed somehow, or that she's the one who is going to 'cure' him? Her actions during the breakup tell me what kind of person she is.

I know that when people mention on here that our exes will repeat their old patterns, some will remind us that we cannot know this for sure, and while I agree on this to a certain extent, I also firmly believe that people don't change unless they really want to and put in the work. I am 99 per cent sure my ex has not done this - he lay the blame of the relationship failing right on my doorstep, took no responsibility for his actions and proceeded to hurt me in a way that no person has ever hurt me. His behaviour was reckless, immature, childish and downright disrespectful, especially given that I did nothing to warrant what happened at the end.

My point is, so what if I tell myself that the replacement is in for a short, sharp shock when he reveals his true self to her? My sole focus does not lie on their relationship; to the contrary, I rarely think of them now. But when I do, I just tell myself that he won't have changed - if anything my instinct tells me he'll be even worse with her. Yes, I cannot know this for sure, but I was with this man for a long time, and I know how he operates. There's no way he will change unless he's forced to.

I'm not sat around waiting for my ex's relationship to fail. But when I do think of them, I just tell myself she's really welcome to him - rages/suicidal tendencies and all, and it gives me some solace. Maybe that's wrong, but it's helping me detach further. I'm being as objective as I can be, and if it was a friend who was in this situation and telling me about her ex, I would say the same things to her.

Perhaps karma does have a real sense of humour - the replacement thought she got herself a prize, but all is not as it seemed.

Hopeful.

[balletomane]

I don't think what you're doing is wrong. If you kept checking up on your ex to see if he and his new girlfriend are still together and getting upset and angry if you found that they were, it would be a problem, but it seems that you aren't interested in the state of their relationship. You are just reminding yourself that your ex's difficulties are likely to surface in any relationship he's in as a way to keep yourself focused on the realities of the abuse you experienced, instead of glossing over them. Knowing and accepting what you were dealing with is a vital part of your recovery.

My situation is a bit different in that my replacement seems like a genuinely lovely person, and I'm sure she doesn't know half of what really happened between my ex and me. I'm aware that he lied to her about a few things, and based on how he used to talk to me about his exes (I knew him since he was with his first girlfriend, so I saw how all the relationships before me played out) I can take a good guess about how he presents me to her. As devastating as my breakup with him was, it would have been worse if I hadn't been able to put his behaviour in context, and see that he was just repeating a pattern that had played out with other partners too. She won't have that knowledge, so I feel sorry for her more than anything.

[Hopeful83]

Hi balletomane,

Thanks for replying. Yes, you're right - I don't check up on what they're doing, at all. In 12 months the only time that I caved is when I found out that they'd got married, and I just *had* to see it for myself. Ironically enough, the photos that I felt would destroy me if I ever saw them just helped the healing process - they just don't look like a cohesive couple, and there was zero joy emanating from the photos, which is what you'd expect from wedding pics. These were joyless and wooden-like.

But since then, I've gone back to not checking a single thing and I have no desire to. I don't even feel slightly tempted, so I see that you've made a fair distinction. And yes, it does help to remind myself that it wasn't a picture perfect relationship, and he is by no means stable.

How long did it take your ex to get with the replacement?

Although I don't know what lies and BS mine sold his now wife, I still cannot justify her actions. Engaged within mere weeks - anyone, you'd think, would question this guy's sanity. I know there are cultural aspects at play here, too (I suspect it was an arranged marriage), which perhaps should lead me to have some empathy - for all I know she was guilted into it by her family. But she showed no remorse, and was commenting on his Instagram photos within weeks of us splitting. She was fully aware of the fact he was with me, and our relationship played out quite publicly as we shared a blog together - it was evident to see that we were extremely close, so she wouldn't have to dig much to find evidence that whatever he may have been telling her was rubbish. He would regularly write on social media how much I meant to him etc even just before the breakup.

So with that in mind, I don't have sympathy for her. If anything, I felt she was rubbing it in my face with the commenting on social media, the email she sent to me etc. These aren't the actions of an emotionally mature person, so clearly they're well matched in that regard.

Hopeful  

[balletomane]

My ex told my replacement (his flatmate) that we'd broken up ages ago and were just friends, when in reality we were romantically and sexually involved right up until he got together with her. She'd asked him how we managed to share a bed with nothing happening whenever I visited, and he told her it was easy. He laughed to me about it the next day, as though lying to her was a joke. I did wonder uneasily why he felt the need to lie. He gave me no indication that our relationship was going to change, so technically it was more like cheating than just replacing me, although he won't see it this way.

My replacement did do one thing that was unkind - a couple of weeks before they became a couple, she invited me to have lunch with her and then 'fished' for information about my involvement with my ex, pretending she wanted to match-make between us ("I always tell him you should get back together". This put me in a very difficult situation, as I didn't know what I could safely tell her - exposing his lies might have created problems in their apartment, and our relationship had been so turbulent and abusive that I didn't want to go into the painful details with her. She wasn't a close friend of mine and this was something that I hadn't been able to talk about to anyone so far. Now I think that she was just trying to see what her chances were with him, but was too embarrassed to ask outright. This makes me think she was wilfully ignoring warning signs - if she honestly believed my ex when he told her we were over, why would she even need to double-check with me in this backhanded way? I think she believed what he said more because she wanted to believe it than anything. But I can't be angry with her for that, because her naivety is no greater than the naivety I showed in my relationship with him. I believed I would be treated differently from all the partners who preceded me, despite evidence to the contrary. I was prepared to be in a secret relationship with him and I kept telling myself that he meant it when he said he loved me, without challenging him over his desire to be seen as single. I think denial is a prerequisite for anyone who dates him, and she and I are not really that different.

[gotbushels]

I've noticed in this later stage of my healing that I'm starting to really face up to the negative aspects of my relationship, namely my ex's horrific rages that also included suicide threats. I had to endure shouting, screaming, swearing, physical manhandling - he even slapped me across the face once. My ex would also sometimes tie a belt around his neck as I watched on in horror, and then had to try and overcome his strength in order to loosen the noose.

To me this seems horrendous and awful. Especially as you mention you're a peaceful person. The violence my ex was capable of shocked me, I'd never heard let alone seen anything like it from any of my social circles. Well done with your acknowledgement, I don't think it was easy.

The other thing that sometimes sets me back is the fact I think of my ex's replacement and I get angry (she was shameless, showed no remorse, they were engaged within two months of us breaking up).

The anger goes down from time to time. I still remain irritated when I think further and remember how I helped the replacement with something before I discovered what was going on.

I sometimes wonder if I got to 'break him in' for her, so to speak, and she's now reaping the benefits of my relationship with him.

I wondered this same thing too. There are members on here with adamant opinions about how they get much worse over time. The logic under their points seems to make a lot of sense.

But then I tell myself that the likelihood of this is next to nothing - the guy went from saying I was the love of his life, to getting engaged to her within weeks, and I'm supposed to believe he's changed somehow, or that she's the one who is going to 'cure' him? Her actions during the breakup tell me what kind of person she is.

Pause here and read the highlighted bit on it's own. Your 99 per cent thought may hold more weight.

I'll offer another view.

It's a great example of "It takes two hands to clap." One person needs to dance with another, just like how we danced with the pwBPD. He did something to "grow" the relationship to that level.

I would say it may be helpful to you to transpose this opinion on what "kind" of person she is onto him to consider a more realistic view of his behaviour.

People don't just get engaged.

I know that when people mention on here that our exes will repeat their old patterns, some will remind us that we cannot know this for sure, and while I agree on this to a certain extent, I also firmly believe that people don't change unless they really want to and put in the work.

The fact they got engaged after a few weeks of a breakup can look like "some miracle" has happened. Also consider that this action may indicate two incredibly desperate people. Some people use marriage to flee from their inadequacies. I know I hoped my ex's problems would go down if I increased the commitment. I know I'm not alone in that.

Engagement in a few weeks may even be a strong indication the guy got worse.

Even if he "got better", you're looking at potentially years of therapy. I'm completely neutral here. Completely calm... .Is that something you want? Think carefully.

My point is, so what if I tell myself that the replacement is in for a short, sharp shock when he reveals his true self to her?

Another way you can look at this is, is that you hope they stay together longer. That way he harms less people with his violent behaviour. His behaviour was very far from what I consider normal. And I've been described as having above-average aggression. I guess this will become more apparent to you as you move more into what "normal" is "supposed" to look like. It still startles me how distant the behaviour is from normal.

I'm not sat around waiting for my ex's relationship to fail. But when I do think of them, I just tell myself she's really welcome to him - rages/suicidal tendencies and all, and it gives me some solace. Maybe that's wrong, but it's helping me detach further. I'm being as objective as I can be, and if it was a friend who was in this situation and telling me about her ex, I would say the same things to her.

I don't think that's wrong. Part of me still happily thinks they deserve the pain they probably give each other, but I don't dwell on it anymore. I've fantasised that they both get married then he is really... .you can guess. Then just shrug it off, which you seem to do anyway. 

I like your friend-test for validity. 

Perhaps karma does have a real sense of humour - the replacement thought she got herself a prize, but all is not as it seemed.

I felt this too, but I've shied away from judging.

If it helps any, some people reach a point where they imagine their ex 2/5/10 into the future years without BPD, and still keep away from them for various reasons. Want to deal with the noose thing in 5 years? What about if your kids catch you?

I hope you find rest from your irritation Hopeful83 

[bunny4523]

balletomane   I second that.

[Hopeful83]

My replacement did do one thing that was unkind - a couple of weeks before they became a couple, she invited me to have lunch with her and then 'fished' for information about my involvement with my ex, pretending she wanted to match-make between us ("I always tell him you should get back together".

I find this sneaky, deceptive and extremely horrible. I genuinely admire you for not being angry at her... .

[Hopeful83]

 C<|||gotbushels

Thank you for putting together such a well-thought out reply - it certainly helped. I spoke to my therapist this week about the belt incidences and I was surprised to find I hadn't shared it with her before (I really thought I had). She was shocked and lost for words, which again highlighted to me how serious this was. When I think back to it now I shudder.

When the relationship ended, I took a long look at why I stayed in a relationship with someone who was so unstable and abusive, and realised a lot of things about my relationship with my mother. Once I was out of the dynamic with my ex, I was shocked at how I managed to put up with the rages and how I dealt with the belt scenarios without freaking out. Although my mum never did something so drastic, our relationship was extremely difficult and stormy. She raged at me throughout my childhood/teens, and I was always walking on eggshells with her, wondering when the next rage was going to get thrown at me. I was to blame for EVERYTHING that went wrong, and I've gone through my adulthood self-blaming and beating myself over things. My ex's rages were therefore 'normal' to me - it's only now that I realise how warped this normal was.

Hence why I'm now genuinely glad my relationship ended - I never thought I'd get to the point when I'd feel this way! Like you mentioned, if we had kids and they saw this kind of behaviour it would have been horrific for them. And I'd never want any kids that I have to grow up in a home like that, especially when I have zero intention to ever treat my children in this way. Like I mentioned, peace and quiet are extremely valuable and important to me, so any future partner would need to deal with conflict in a similar manner to myself.

I also like what you mentioned about them being two desperate people. You're spot on with that. Their actions were desperate and they don't even know each other properly. Hell, they didn't even live together before they got married, hence why I believe the title of my thread - she's in for a short, sharp shock when he starts raging at her and potentially doing the belt thing. They really are welcome to each other.

You mentioned that sometimes they get worse over time - is there any research/threads I can read regarding this?

Thanks again,

Hopeful

[gotbushels]

I spoke to my therapist this week about the belt incidences and I was surprised to find I hadn't shared it with her before (I really thought I had).

Right there with you. I thought I told someone in my support group one of the violent incidents, turns out I didn't. I guess I replayed it so many times in my head trying to figure it out that it became descriptive of the relationship in my mind.

You mentioned that sometimes they get worse over time - is there any research/threads I can read regarding this?

Sure. 
 
Recent member views:
Topic: Do you think pwBPD ever get better?

For a balanced view, here are some results from 10-year studies of inpatients (i.e., with attendant treatment):
Topic: POLL: Prediction of the 10-Year Course of BPD - Mary C. Zanarini, Ed.D.

Readiness to receive treatment is another matter. Please note there are also success stories on the other boards.

Anyway--without judgment upon pwBPDs as a class of persons--I'd like to encourage you to draw your own conclusions. 

[Herodias]

"Perhaps karma does have a real sense of humour - the replacement thought she got herself a prize, but all is not as it seemed."

Yes, and my exes gf posted all kinds of stuff about karma on fb... .can't wait until she figures it out! I am sure she already has! I have a very similar situation and feelings like you Hopeful. I know that I lasted 9 years with mine, so her having a baby with him could make her stay longer... .plus, she is immature and may put up with him in a different way and let him control her, even though she is always acting like she is some kind of "feisty red head" - she posted stuff about that all the time - I can only imagine the fights! I saw him fight with her in the beginning. I know in my heart of hearts he is behaving in the same way. If not now, it will come. She cheated on her husband with him 3 years ago and even met me where he worked. I have no sorry feelings for her. I believe she has a bigger lesson to learn than I ever did! I have heard that sometimes the replacement will contact the ex at some point. You never know. I know that her only two friends are a cop and a therapist. I find this totally ironic. I think he may be afraid to be himself... .he kept telling me he had "no incidents" with her- like it was my fault. I know this is not true- it was the love-bombing stage... .It's coming. Not that I am wishing it on her exactly, but I know people don't change with out major work on themselves... .particularly abusers. Mine was abusive in all of his relationships. I was just the one that lasted so long and married him. It will happen, you don't need to feel like it was you. I know how you can feel that way... .they may interact a bit different, but I know mine can't possibly be happy mirroring the person he is stuck with, due to her getting pregnant. It would be interesting to hear from anyone who has talked to the replacement when their r/s fails. I think I have read about that here a few times in the past, when people have children together. Usually there is some discussion, but the new person doesn't want to admit too much. They may feel it's their fault too and wonder if it was different with us!

[balletomane]

I find this sneaky, deceptive and extremely horrible. I genuinely admire you for not being angry at her... .

In retrospect, I think that I was just far too upset over how my ex had just behaved to be angry at her. If a sponge is already wringing wet, adding a few more drops of water can't do anything much. I'd got to the point where I was saturated with pain. I remember when I realised what that casual lunch invitation had really been about, and my reaction was just a tired, "Oh, so that was it." Perhaps if I had been less numb and miserable I could have been angry.

Looking back on what I knew of her before, I don't think that behaviour was representative of her. I think she probably made a bad choice because she felt nervous and awkward, without considering the impact it could have on me. She was in her early twenties and I think her age might have had something to do with it too. I could be wrong - look at how spectacularly wrong I was about my ex! - but even if I am, it doesn't matter. If she really is a deceitful person who has no problem with pulling that kind of stunt, then she is welcome to the hot seat that she relieved me from. If their relationship works out, then still no anger over here - they suit each other. And if my basic gut feeling is right, and she was just naive and ready to believe whatever my ex told her, then I can only feel sorry.