Non Radical Acceptance

[Beware of Junk Psychology...]

Possibly a double-entendre? Though it's been said that there is no such thing as a "non." That's another discussion... .

Went to the kids' uncle's (Ex's side) wedding tonight.  Everything was going pretty well.  The kids were in the wedding.  Later,  just before the cake was going to be cut,  but the dances with the couple were going on,  their mom brings D4 out from the crowd,  angry at our daughter (my ex euphemistically used to call this being  "frustrated" but it's an anger simmering under the surface that as the child of a pwBPD I know well.

My ex just walked away to go back to the dance floor to take pictures. D4 was crying,  "Mommy!  Mommy'" I took her to get water.  She was still crying in my arms.  I went back, and passed by her husband.  He asked what was wrong.  I was so pissed at this point they I said something like,  "what's wrong is that your wife needs to be a mother rather that whatever she is doing." He didn't say anything.  D4 was still crying for mommy.  She stepped out of the crowd next to two young ladies.  The had the "awwwwe!" Looks on their faces until I think they spotted the angry look on my face as her mom reluctantly took our daughter.  They probably thought I was the angry dad who couldn't handle the little girl.  Let them think that. 

I walked out for a few minutes to get some air.  My ex texted asking where I was,  then "?" She wanted me to take our daughter home.  She did the same thing at the bridal shower almost two months ago.  She wanted me to come pick her up when she started acting up from her point of view. I asked the bride the next day if D4 was acting out,  and she said not at all.  She loves to show off her little princess... .until she starts acting like a 4 year old girl,  then she wants to be rescued from motherhood. Attachment issue?  Maybe like getting angry over a romantic partner chewing too loudly or saying the wrong thing in a social setting when not a single other person in the room notices?

Last week,  my ex commented that she liked how our daughter wanted to be held all of the time because she never did as a baby.  Funny,  but I don't remember that at all,  at least with me, but then my ex started "checking out" of the family when D4 was 1, a critical attachment stage. 

I took a still crying D4 around to say quick goodbyes to the family.  My Ex's younger sister asked what was wrong.  I said that her sister was frustrated and wanted me to take the kids home.  I "rescued" her,  but was really rescuing our daughter.  S6 seemed ok.  He's far more attached to me anyway. 

My ex did walk us out to the car.  D4 was still crying a little,  and was still saying "I want Mommy" until we got onto the freeway and S6 distracted her with some videos on the tablet.  She fell asleep about halfway home.  Earlier,  my Ex's excuse was,  " she's tired,  she needs to go home." Maybe I'm a helicopter parent,  but in my mind,  you hold your child.  You certainly don't walk away from her.  I didn't see D as doing anything bad which warranted sending her to a time out,  for instance.  I think my ex was frustrated with me for not validating her. 

It's natural to get frustrated,  especially with your kids,  and that's OK.  I've sent D4 to her room plenty of times,  but if she's come back,  crying to be picked up (which is her way of making up), I've never rejected her,  not once. 

We have another parenting class next week.  We'll see if she brings up this incident,  which will lack context,  to get validation from the group. 

So am I stuck here or attached?  Almost 2 years ago,  my T (who saw her for two individual sessions before she quit,  but picked up on a lot), said,  "I sense that a lot of your anger towards her stems from expecting her to be who she is not." He threw the ball into my court.  I know what he said is right,  but I still struggle with it.

Meanwhile,  I have the kids for 3/4 of her weekend again while she's out of town pursuing her MLM get rich quick scheme.  That's for the kids,  as she once explained to me,  so she can get them a house.  How about providing them a safe and loving home?

[Turkish]

Possibly a double-entendre? Though it's been said that there is no such thing as a "non." That's another discussion... .

Went to the kids' uncle's (Ex's side) wedding tonight.  Everything was going pretty well.  The kids were in the wedding.  Later,  just before the cake was going to be cut,  but the dances with the couple were going on,  their mom brings D4 out from the crowd,  angry at our daughter (my ex euphemistically used to call this being  "frustrated" but it's an anger simmering under the surface that as the child of a pwBPD I know well.

My ex just walked away to go back to the dance floor to take pictures. D4 was crying,  "Mommy!  Mommy'" I took her to get water.  She was still crying in my arms.  I went back, and passed by her husband.  He asked what was wrong.  I was so pissed at this point they I said something like,  "what's wrong is that your wife needs to be a mother rather that whatever she is doing." He didn't say anything.  D4 was still crying for mommy.  She stepped out of the crowd next to two young ladies.  The had the "awwwwe!" Looks on their faces until I think they spotted the angry look on my face as her mom reluctantly took our daughter.  They probably thought I was the angry dad who couldn't handle the little girl.  Let them think that. 

I walked out for a few minutes to get some air.  My ex texted asking where I was,  then "?" She wanted me to take our daughter home.  She did the same thing at the bridal shower almost two months ago.  She wanted me to come pick her up when she started acting up from her point of view. I asked the bride the next day if D4 was acting out,  and she said not at all.  She loves to show off her little princess... .until she starts acting like a 4 year old girl,  then she wants to be rescued from motherhood. Attachment issue?  Maybe like getting angry over a romantic partner chewing too loudly or saying the wrong thing in a social setting when not a single other person in the room notices?

Last week,  my ex commented that she liked how our daughter wanted to be held all of the time because she never did as a baby.  Funny,  but I don't remember that at all,  at least with me, but then my ex started "checking out" of the family when D4 was 1, a critical attachment stage. 

I took a still crying D4 around to say quick goodbyes to the family.  My Ex's younger sister asked what was wrong.  I said that her sister was frustrated and wanted me to take the kids home.  I "rescued" her,  but was really rescuing our daughter.  S6 seemed ok.  He's far more attached to me anyway. 

My ex did walk us out to the car.  D4 was still crying a little,  and was still saying "I want Mommy" until we got onto the freeway and S6 distracted her with some videos on the tablet.  She fell asleep about halfway home.  Earlier,  my Ex's excuse was,  " she's tired,  she needs to go home." Maybe I'm a helicopter parent,  but in my mind,  you hold your child.  You certainly don't walk away from her.  I didn't see D as doing anything bad which warranted sending her to a time out,  for instance.  I think my ex was frustrated with me for not validating her. 

It's natural to get frustrated,  especially with your kids,  and that's OK.  I've sent D4 to her room plenty of times,  but if she's come back,  crying to be picked up (which is her way of making up), I've never rejected her,  not once. 

We have another parenting class next week.  We'll see if she brings up this incident,  which will lack context,  to get validation from the group. 

So am I stuck here or attached?  Almost 2 years ago,  my T (who saw her for two individual sessions before she quit,  but picked up on a lot), said,  "I sense that a lot of your anger towards her stems from expecting her to be who she is not." He threw the ball into my court.  I know what he said is right,  but I still struggle with it.

Meanwhile,  I have the kids for 3/4 of her weekend again while she's out of town pursuing her MLM get rich quick scheme.  That's for the kids,  as she once explained to me,  so she can get them a house.  How about providing them a safe and loving home?

[Lilyroze]

  Turkish,

I am glad you could go and enjoy the festivities for the children's sake, even though tough at times you are classy to be able to do things with ex and family.

I understand your wife maybe wanting to enjoy the dance-floor or pictures, and if getting late or wanting her Mom your daughter might have been fussy. So good you were there and could step in.  If a once and a while thing I could see, wife needing some adult time on the floor. But well you and I know with BPD or NPD people it is usually more to the mix.

Also a trigger for your daughter perhaps is she is around Mom's family ( and with the incident with your daughter and what she went through she might have panicked and wanted Mom for safety or just attention).

Sad Mom can't seem to see or understand that.  The wanting held now and a few other signs are concerning to me ( I worked with abused children I hope you don't mind me mentioning though that was not the why of post).

I hope it is not bad to say about wife, but a small, dependent child has to rely on the "sane" parent to manage a mentally ill spouse, which seems like you have to do a lot. Again you are a good, informed, proactive Dad. Your kids will thrive and have a life full of love and joy from you. I am glad the kids have you.

I know she tries but many Mom's or Dad's now that seem to have BPD or NPD want the trophy child. So the children must be perfect, and show off, then off to the races, someone else take them when the times get tough, kids need love or things, or just I want "me" fun time.

Even with your son she doesn't seem to understand some children are introverts, or take longer to develop especially boys it doesn't make them have a spectrum disorder. Though always good to check. It seems she wants to mold them into what she wants for appearances, or worried how they will be perceived instead of enjoying them with joy for the gifts they have. Nurturing them with love only a Mom can give.

Example: I have an acquaintance in my art group sigh... .seems lovely lady, wonderful quotes, poems, on boards. Never really paid attention except oh that is lovely comment once in awhile.

I couldn't figure out why many of my good friends or other artists or Typology artists got mad at her. Thought oh that is mean, hen fight... .etc I will stay out.

Until... .she unbeknown-est to me was conversing with my other Dear friend. Neither told me, nor would I usually care.  If you are still with me, you will understand... .upon closer look found why everyone was mad, she was a BPD waif, covert narcissist. Who seemed to care about family, friends, her church and children. Seemed being key word until closer examination. The realized no my friends weren't being mean, they were protecting their kids, their marriages or friendships. Many of which got wrecked, hurt or destroyed... .Literally.

But none know she is recording them all putting online, has wrecked 7 marriages so far with " her friendships", got many to leave her church ( which none of our business and fine leave find another) but has started drama in the family, in others families, had affairs ( emotional mainly and many others her husband is OK to a point other husbands not... .LOL).

When you look close all the quotes and poems are about poor her to elicit sympathy. Very rarely are kind comments back except to thank to get more male attention. They seem very deep, the pictures or her videos and interactions with kids nice. Until you really look. Even leaving the church is fine. ( I am not of her religion and could care less), but she is delving into online, involving everyone ( secretly taped a few of my friends, then put up), making chaos, all with the idea she is now finding herself, and turning to zen. Wonderful... .LOL

Now here is the part for you why I put the above... .to lead up to. Now her children are a little older then yours. EVERY SINGLE day there is a video of her in the car driving no less singing, which ( who I am to judge be jolly and maybe she is the best driver in the world) with her children in back. To show what a good mommy I am look at them singing. My GF's are all sick of it. It is crazy to tape and drive.

Once in awhile, yes cute, lovely. I use to enjoy and thought how sweet, I love my kids as well. Now... .just NPD to max to use kids. Close friend use to be friends with her, until she slept with her husband, wrecked her marriage ( while this crazy one is still intact) and said the kids complain all the time in school and friends house about mommies staged pictures, videos etc. She never does anything with them unless she takes a picture, then I colored with you 5 minutes we are done now. Papers put away.


Finally intervention happens and she posts a video with signs ( so you know she took time to make), turned off, then back fluffing hair and saying she is ready to kill herself, if not for her girls. With edited pretty writing I love you. It was to a man she is having an emotional friendship with. She deleted it, others saw and " now she appreciates them all helping" to show her husband how sad she felt. Now according to friends feels bad again is helping, while another man lost his GF, probably. What a mess.

Bringing up as she seems like great Mom till you look close... .drama, fake tears, affairs, threats to kill so husband feels bad, wrecked many friendships but worst of all her children. They have no real mom. She is always at work, or sitting in car making videos, has a social media she posts 50 things a day to. I worked when my kids were real young, but then any minute not spent with them and not taping for the world to see me being a good mommy.

Just like yours is leaving all the time to make money for a house. Instead of like you said making a home, full of love time and Mommy.  Work and money is great we all need but couple that with BPD or NPD then the kids never have attention, rage, insecurity and craziness.

Now don't get me wrong, I have large social medias. Even I can't post too much in my sadness right now. But doing for work. I do have a son that needs me and am there, though he is not that young. When my kids were that age I would be at the pool, art park, classes, there with them. I would not be in my car in a parking lot, or driving, to make videos of how great I am or my newness sadness to talk to mainly men... .Men can comment but her husband doesn't know of account. Whenever anyone confronts to help her or a hurt woman in the circle. She paints her nails and shows her ring in a pic on the account and goes back to using the kids as the only reason she is alive... .crocodile tears etc.

I am not saying your wife is like this. But am glad you are involved, know the signs, are there for the kids, intervene and bring her back to reality at the time. Can you imagine what those two girls are going to grow up like? They are already complaining about Mom to others and learning to sing and blow kisses to the camera for mostly men to say wow what a great mom you are. Really sad.

Keep going for the kids. I know you are in counseling with them and her. Hopefully that helps keep them stable.

Are you going to bring up to her or let it go?

 

Stay strong, as I know you will. The kids have a stable dad, home and love, that is the real key right now. You can't control her and she will play games at least she is higher functioning then the one above. If that is any consolation.

LR 

[myself]

So am I stuck here or attached?  Almost 2 years ago,  my T (who saw her for two individual sessions before she quit,  but picked up on a lot), said,  "I sense that a lot of your anger towards her stems from expecting her to be who she is not." He threw the ball into my court.  I know what he said is right,  but I still struggle with it.

How about providing them a safe and loving home?

It's understandable that you'd feel upset when she doesn't step up in the roles she chose of mother, wife, partner. That she'd pretty consistently try her best, as you've been doing. It sucks that there's 'disorder' involved, which is what you're also angry at, and since you can't really separate the person from the disorder you're angry with the person too. The behavior at least. From what you've posted in the past, about your past, many of your concerns and fears are exactly about 'providing them a safe and loving home'. Working to allow them a better childhood than the one you had. Shielding them from too much unnecessary pain in life. Which, being a part-time parent myself, sharing kids with an ex-wife, some of that's on us when they're with us and some is up to the mothers to provide. When the other person doesn't follow through, and is too self absorbed or whatever, there are levels for us of "I'll just do it" and also "Why is so much of this usually up to me?" It was supposed to be teamwork. Frustrating. Your T is right, you can't change her, only yourself, and it's on you to be the least upset about that as you can. But, "I'm doing it, why isn't she?" still remains. Being around her and interacting in her life as much as you do still keeps you too involved in her 'stuff', doesn't it? I wonder, because I went through some of this too, is all of that really for the kids or partially due to not having let go enough yet? Detachment... .

[william3693]

Turkish,

I have a disconnect between what I know intellectually about BPD
and what I feel in my heart and gut and I do not know why I cannot intergrate them.
Maybe you can help me with this.That their minds work so different is something
I am not able to accept fully at this point.I think maybe to accept this
might cause me a lot of pain.I do not know but I am afraid of this.
 

[Turkish]

I had a short talk with her the day before yesterday during D4's therapy appointment.  She didn't see it the way I did,  naturally.  She said she talked to our daughter and all was fixed. I let it go.  Trying to explain would be JADEing, perhaps. 

I asked her how the RO was going with her BIL, that I didn't need to know the details, but she said I had a right to know,  and proceeded to tell me.  Her BIL (husband's brother) is under investigation for soliciting a 4 year old neighbor girl two years ago. The girl told her mother at some point later and the mom reported it.  So my ex is right about not wanting him around at all,  though her Husband has honored her request that he wasn't around when the kids were with them.  She has a court date soon.  I hope this is an end to the drama. 

During the kids' group tonight,  S6 drew a picture of his family.  He left his step dad out.  I can take this stuff, growing up with a BPD mother made me titanium.  It's the fallout with my kids which hurts.