I might be dating me ex again? What do I do?

[KarmasReal]

Hey guys,

So I'm in a strange place with my ex bod girlfriend and I'm not sure how to handle it. I'm not sure if this the correct forum for me now, if not perhaps it can be moved to a better one.

Backstory is we dated for a year and a half and broke up three months ago. It was a pretty bad break up as she was distraught over her divorce and living in a state she hated and it happened to be my birthday. She wanted to leave me and go see a friend instead of spend it with me and she also said some other terrible things, which she claims not to remember cause she was drinking. So when she did this I believed she cared nothing for me and broke up with her. I texted her once after this trying to get my stuff back and she said no, she wasn't happy with how we ended and not to text her again. So I didn't and went on with life, although I was very distraught and depressed.

Now a week ago I run into her outside of my favorite bar. I know now she went there because she knew I was there. She came over and talked and we ended up having a drinking conversation where she missed and loved me, etc, but also telling me she had done a lot of negative stuff during our breakup. We also had sex that night.

After that a week goes by we don't talk, I finally send her a message asking her to join me for a beer, she agrees, we hangout talk have fun and have sex again. The next day I leave and a little later she texts me that she's having Thai food and wants to know if I want some, I say yes, go to her house and eat, we watch movies kind of cuddle and end up having sex again. The next day she wakes me up saying her kids are coming over, I don't know how to handle this as I don't know what me and her are doing, so I leave. I was around her kids all the time when we were dating and I love them but I didn't want to make something awkward or wrong. Since I left Saturday afternoon, I haven't heard from her, nor have I said anything. I guess I want to give her space but at the same time would like to know if she still really cares about me or wants me in her life again. I guess it's kind of a delicate situation and I would like to know how to handle it or if anyone has been in this same boat?

I miss the things we use to do together and there is a fair this week I want to take her and maybe her kids to. I just don't know if that's okay. I hear it's bad to be all serious and have these talks when you're dating an ex and it should just be fun but at the same time I'd like to know a little of what she wants from what we are doing now. Do I talk with her about it? Or do I just continue trying to have fun and see if she brings things up eventually? Thanks guys!

[C.Stein]

I'm gonna be honest with you here.  What I see is "sex", nothing more.  Each encounter ended with sex.  The other things you did with her are fairly innocuous and superficial, and they all ended with sex.  As great as pressure free hanging out, having fun and having sex can be it is not an accurate reflection of an intimate relationship where issues of trust, honesty, fidelity, commitment, etc... .come into play.

What has changed with her?  What makes you think things will be different this time around?  Be honest when you ask yourself and answer these questions.  Be wary of sugar coating reality.

[KarmasReal]

C.Stein,

That's what I was afraid of. Getting caught up in the "chemistry" of it all. We have had very little in the way of honest open communication. I honestly don't know how to go about it. I don't want to seem like I'm the only one putting eggs in the proverbial basket, but I don't want the same things to repeat either. Honestly I just want to know what she wants from this, or how she sees things. If it's just sex, or friends, or dating, or making our way back to a relationship, but I don't want to put any pressure on us either. It feels like being caught between a rock and a hard place.

[C.Stein]

We have had very little in the way of honest open communication.

Isn't this a necessary requirement of a healthy relationship?

I honestly don't know how to go about it. I don't want to seem like I'm the only one putting eggs in the proverbial basket, but I don't want the same things to repeat either.

I think the reasonable expectation here is to expect the same things will repeat again.  The question you have to ask yourself is why do you think they won't?

Honestly I just want to know what she wants from this, or how she sees things. If it's just sex, or friends, or dating, or making our way back to a relationship, but I don't want to put any pressure on us either. It feels like being caught between a rock and a hard place.

This feels very much like a friends with benefits relationship at this point.  You can't live your life in fear.  If you want to know what she wants from this then ask her.  The honest and open communication needs to start somewhere, why not with you?

[Confused99]

I was in exact same situation as you.  We actually got back together on the premise of sex.  She just told me to forget the past.  Well it didn't last long.  I know how u feel now.  You have hope.  Hope that she will be different.  No one here can stop you from those feelings as I beleive you need to learn for yourself.  Only advice would be do you want to be playing a game rest of your life?  It should feel natural in a relationship not wondering what to do to not piss her off. Does this feel natural?  Once a BPD hits outside world alone they become more of a liability.  Mine cheated, lied, etc.  Point being trust was gone.  And I soon found out I wasn't only one having sex with her.  Just be careful wishing you luck

[gotbushels]

KarmasReal I'll just hold myself out here and say I was in your situation too. Along with many others. It might help you to see that sex to your ex may be very different from what you believe sex to be. That same logic applied to basically every fundamental relationship idea, at least in my mind.

C.Stein's list of "trust, honesty, fidelity, commitment" are all great things to look at how you may differ from your ex. The thing that helped me was taking the history and assessing wisely the chances of our beliefs on fundamental ideas--like these listed--being close enough to keep a healthy relationship in the way of how I envisioned it to be. I found that when I stepped back, her beliefs and mine on these fundamental things had a growing distance. It was hard for me seeing she wasn't who I thought she was as I invested a lot into the relationship.

Unfortunately, I required a sufficiently long set of "bad experiences" in order to be able to prove my own thinking "incorrect". She basically needed to methodically break each of my perceived beliefs along the lines of trust, honesty, fidelity, commitment before I was ready to walk away. I hope you don't have to go through the same process to discover the same thing.

Yes, it's hard, yes a companion and sex is nice. Please question and work with your beliefs, I think that's key here. In fact, looking back, it was one of the hardest things I did. Here's a chance for you to emerge strong. I encourage you to go after it.

[zonnebloem]

 

Hello ! I remember the time we chatted, you feeling lonely, me too.

Listen to all the great advise you find here... .

I wish I could be happy again (as I used to be) with just me/myself/I and the nature to explore.

Are you wanting childeren with a woman that likes to go out drinking?
Isn't that asking for troubel?

Take care!

[KarmasReal]

Thanks for these replies,

I guess I need to have some sort of discussion on where we see our lives individually and together going. As much as I don't want to rock the boat healthy communication is a must and as I much as I try to ignore it, I am going to have to be the one who initiates it. I want us to be able to have fun and enjoy things, but we can only look do that if we are on the same page.

I'm not sure if anything is based on the premise of sex or friends with benefits though. Yes the sex is nice but that's just what happens at the end of the evening. We talk, go out, have fun, watch movies, cuddle, hold hands, joke, etc. it's not strictly a sex thing, the funny thing is I don't think either one of us knows what this is, and we are both not pushing or saying anything for probably some of the same and down different individual fears of our own. Well I don't want to fear things anymore so I have to man up and find out what's going on! Thanks for helping me see this!

[zonnebloem]

 

Succes!  Sounds "too good to be true"... .sounds realy good!

succes!

[Rayban]

Karma

I could relate to your situation.  As I was beginning  to get on with my life, I got a text from her one night,  and we began dating again.  I accepted, because I missed her and missed sex with her. I told myself that I would remain unattached, and have a good time.  I wasn't thinking long-term.  I just wanted to see where things would lead. I also conveniently forgot about the cheating,  lying, and all the the pain I went through while I was with her.

Basically my ideal lasted 1 week. She would bring up the past continuously.  She began FOGGING me. It was to the point where I began to doubt myself, and my role in the relationship.  I snapped out of it, and took responsability for my faults, and challanged her to do the same.  She said she was willing to work on somethings.  I ended becoming attached.

She sensed this, and I was treated to another round of mind f'ing.  Having already been devalued and painted black in the past, I was prime for being a prop, available when no-one else was, triangulating me with random people.

She made little effort to concele seeing other people.  That was the final straw and ended it. What did I get for 2 weeks of a simili RS? I felt twice as worse despite knowing what I was getting into.

What did my ex want? She wanted a RS where I was to be a doormat and she did whatever she wanted. It's nothing surprising really.  If she doesn't want to change and in her mind is beyond reproach, then by default the RS with her is just more pain.


You ask what she wants or how she sees things between the two of you.  What about what you want in continuing to see her? If you know, take the lead and speak to her.

[gotbushels]

Well I don't want to fear things anymore so I have to man up and find out what's going on!

Well setting out your future can be as exciting as it is scary I'm not sure about your history with the pwBPD but perhaps at some point in an intimate relationship, someone needs to decide which way to go. Perhaps it happens faster with pwBPD? It might be helpful if you're aware of the issues and make a healthy decision 

[HopefulDad]

Man lets potential of regular sex cloud relationship judgment!  News at 11.

[KarmasReal]

Hey all,

First I just want to reiterate that the sex is not clouding my judgement. Sex is sex and I can find that other places, my connection to this girl is what I value. I just included the amount of sex in the post to say she isn't just trying to keep me around as a friend or whatever, there is still a lot of physical closeness. The reason I am hesitant about bringing anything up is because we have been very much a roller coaster for almost two years, I feel like I need her to say it so I know that she really wants something from us, instead of just going along with what I say. We had three pretty awesome days that we hung out these past two weeks, however I left her house Saturday afternoon and nether of us has reached out to the other. I don't know what that means? If she seriously missed me wouldn't she had reached out by now? Is she waiting me out? Was it all just the sex? Does she want more?

I really hate the idea of putting my heart on the line again after I've done so several times. She has before too, it almost feels like to me our relationship is so complicated neither of us knows what to do. I hate that, I just want to put it all out there, I want us to have fun, spend time together and see where it goes.

It's just so confusing, I texted her and she dropped everything to meet me that night, then the next day she text me and wanted me to come eat some food with her, then after that it's been 4 days of no contact? What do I make of that?

Thanks for the replies!

[gotbushels]

I think it might help to add that physical intimacy somewhat clouded my judgment. Perhaps for the first 10-20%(?) of the relationship? She was way more interested in it than I was most of the time. I guess the fact she tried to use it as a control tool and kept using it as justification for herself to stay in the relationship really "killed" my interest in physical intimacy.

Initially the idea of being some kind of physical intimacy "tool" was fun but after that when she kept using at as an excuse for herself, I kept thinking of the dozens of other things I did to caretake her. Maybe it was the fact that it ended up being a manipulation tool alongside her silly tantrum. In my mind the two are basically one mishmash of the same things.

She's probably the only person I know that can suck the intimacy out of physical intimacy to the point where it's used to attack people, be excessive, and degrades itself to the point of cleaning out the sewage. I know another person that's really self-conscious about physical intimacy, but the upwBPD in my life really took it to the peak of ridicule. If I focus only on the physical intimacy, it would basically be something like:

1) I get to enjoy 20 minutes of physical intimacy, 2 hours of a nice date.
2) I also get 1 week of basically being in a prison of giving therapy to a dysregulation engine. That means I basically can't do anythings else in my life besides be caretaker. My ex was the BP variant that could dysregulate ANY stimulus. She was also a head-banger. I count my stars she wasn't a cutter.

We really need to be careful with how we allow these things like equating physical intimacy to sewage happen to our relationship lives.

[C.Stein]

If she seriously missed me wouldn't she had reached out by now? Is she waiting me out? Was it all just the sex? Does she want more?

Sex and "making love" are two different things IMO.  What are you doing when you are physically intimate with her?  What is she doing?

With my ex I believe she needed sex to feel good about herself.  She also used it to judge the health of the relationship ... .more sex = healthy relationship ... .more sex = more love.  She was completely blind to how her own behavior and actions outside the bedroom impacted our physical and emotional intimacy and that sex does not build love, equal love or create a healthy relationship.  

She would tell me at times she wasn't interested in just having sex anymore, she wanted to "make love".  That statement has several meanings I believe but the biggest problem here was the "making love" became nothing more than sex and she simply couldn't see this.  I don't believe she really needed to "make love" she just needed to feel good about herself and to satisfy her physical cravings ... .sex was a way to achieve that.  Perhaps there was some subconscious control aspect to it as well however she never directly used sex (eg. by withholding it) as a means to control me.  She used other methods to do that.

After a lot of reflection I have come to believe sex for her was equivalent to love ... .which is completely backwards.  This made the sex meaningless for me as I wanted the deep emotional intimacy that can come with and be expressed during physical intimacy in a healthy relationship.  Towards the end I felt more like a tool to satisfy her needs, whatever they were, and as a result I lost pretty much all interest in being physically intimate with her.

[HopefulDad]

I really hate the idea of putting my heart on the line again after I've done so several times.

Follow your gut.  This line seems to capture the core of your whole reason to post.

[Rayban]

A few months back during one of the multiple recycles, I ended up spending the night at her place.  In the morning she was cold, and in a hurry to get ready for work. I had the day off, so I decided to leave. I respected the fact that she needed some time to prepare for work.

I thought at that moment it would be best not to text her as she was busy at work. In the evening, I was waiting for her to text me, and she never did.  I see her at work the day after, and she was upset I didn't contact her.  She accused me of using her for sex. I  tried to explain to her that I was trying to give her some space, seeing she had worked that day. She said I should have texted her regardless,  and she was right.

Karma, I would say you should text her.  It's the only way to know what she's expecting after the weekend you spent together.  Maybe she wants to be chased, or any variety of reasons. Just text her and say what you feel.

[ForeverDad]

Unless she has changed (for the better) and you have changed (improved boundaries and insight), then getting back together will just be getting back on the same old roller coaster again where you're spun around a few times and spit out.  Do you want that?

BPD is a disorder most evident in close relationships.  Right now, after some time apart, her behaviors and responses to you might not be that extreme.  But the closer she gets back to you in a close relationship, the more her distorted thinking will become the overwhelming issue again.

Yes, you can have improved communication skills as emphasized here and that can surely help but unless she gets into serious long term therapy the old issues and cycles will resume.  Not might, will.

Man lets potential of regular sex cloud relationship judgment!  News at 11.

Back when I was in the middle of my very, very high conflict divorce (custody war) my lawyer told me that at some point she might want me back and he bluntly warned me not to get back on the roller coaster again, not even if she danced naked on my front lawn.  He said to listen to my big head, not my little head.

[zonnebloem]

 

Hello Rayban,

Will you advise me?
You might know my story... .Also a rs where the BPD controls me all the time, but... .does what he likes to do.
Finished the rs to travel with his daughters.

Me telling him I have had ENOUGH.
Just decided not to tekst him for 27 days.

What happens? He is in France (5hours drive from where I am) and fell off a horse. His ribs are damaged. He can barely sit.
This is what he texted me.

He doesn't ASK my help.
I texted him if is Insurance will bring him home and his car and the daugher.
Should I offer to go and get him?
Please advise me.

[ForeverDad]

zonnebloem ,
Do you believe him?  Has he seen a doctor?  Could he be exaggerating to get your attention?  He's a grown man, should you let him be an adult?

I ask those questions wondering if he's trying to make his (claimed) problems into your problems... .

(If this is a new issue, it would probably be best to start a new topic so you get better responses.)

[KarmasReal]

Foreverdad,

I agree with everything you have said, I would even advise the same exact thing you have. I know much about this disorder. I feel like I am much improved as to how I can handle this disorder, I know her and this disorder pretty much better than anyone so I feel good about that. I am taking things extremely slow, one date per week, with no texting or calling, or very little. Before we have always jumped into a relationship every time we start talking again, I'm changing that, so if things go bad I don't have much invested yet.

Also I don't care if it seems unmanly or whatever to discuss important issues between us, I will talk and see what she has to say, much can be revealed from a person if you listen to what they say and look at their actions towards you and in general.

[Rayban]

 

Hello Rayban,

Will you advise me?
You might know my story... .Also a rs where the BPD controls me all the time, but... .does what he likes to do.
Finished the rs to travel with his daughters.

Me telling him I have had ENOUGH.
Just decided not to tekst him for 27 days.

What happens? He is in France (5hours drive from where I am) and fell off a horse. His ribs are damaged. He can barely sit.
This is what he texted me.

He doesn't ASK my help.
I texted him if is Insurance will bring him home and his car and the daugher.
Should I offer to go and get him?
Please advise me.

You are no longer in a relationship with him, and he hasn't asked for help. I don't believe it's your role to rescue him.

Has he done this in the past? Sounds like a cry for attention.

[zonnebloem]

 

Hello Rayban, Foreverdad ,

Thanks for posting.

The fact that my ex told me that he fell off his horse and has hurt his chest... .

Must have been a cry for attention and he must exaggerate .
(I kept in mind that he has two sons that can go collect them)


He answered that he can still drive home (6 hours driving) and he asked to see me; He proposed to go to a festival, he wants to go everywhere to please me.
I answered that "things are over" (very tuff on me to except that for a fact too) and that he should take a rest and see a doctor.
He says he will see one next week and that I must stop texting as he is HURT.

And so I will... .being hurt too... .But thank you all for the lessons I get to read here.

[zonnebloem]

 
Hello C. Stein,

I couln't have put it so nicely into words as you do, but that "seks-matter"... .
I have been exactly through the same stuff as well.

He wanted us to kiss as lovers do, the more seks the more love (In the beginning and being in love and having lived as a nun for a few years this was very appealing for me too) and altough he could behave very insulting towards me, he said that he didn't want our sekslife to dy a silent death.

the last times we met , we tried to meet "as friends do"... .of course that doensn't work out neiher.

Thaks for sharing!

[Curiously1]

I've experienced similar. Ex and I had a months break, tried to be friends for 2 weeks until I decided I couldn't deal with just friends. She admitted she missed me and still wanted to have sex until she considered I was 'sane' again based on how much fun we were spending together (no fights at all or bringing up of past issues). Eventually we got back together but it got worse and split me black only after 1 week of getting back together. Convinced I was insane again. Happened when I started to bring up concerns and what I thought we should compromise or change in our relationship for the better. Brought  up therapy etc. And that didn't make sense to her since it was never her fault and also appeared to be annoyed that I didn't appear to be happy all the time. It was a bad idea though, personally but I don't regret the experience of trying to make something I knew was kind of impossible work (just for me personally). I am sure there are some successful r/s with pwBPD on here it's just takes so much out of you. Especially if they are unaware BPDs, what can you do then? Held on to the belief that nobody is perfect and as long as she is still interested in me and I perservere we can somehow pull through. I at least know now how impossible it is and that you can't really change a pwBPD, only you. Even with tools/learning a bunch of stuff it all depends on how the BPD reacts again. Cant really take the BPD out of the person. Once they turn you black, it does get worse each time it seems. Their patience, understanding, reasonableness just worsens and it's all your fault again for the ending because of some petty reason over and over again until you break the cycle and eventually move on. And yeah, sometimes if they just haven't found the next 'ideal' person, I think we are just seen as just good for now in a way. Needed on a temporary sex or relationship basis for their self-esteem until another replacement.