cruelty/sadism

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

One of the harder things for me to understand is the cruelty of some of my ex's actions. I can make sense of the discard (a fear engulfment, or the perceived need to abandon me before I abandon her), the push/pull, and the replacing me quickly, but what is harder to make sense of is the meanness. My friend (who knows and loves her) said something helpful yesterday-- she thinks it is that she wants me to suffer without her-- that that would help her self-esteem, that it was sadistic in the sense of giving her power. Does that make sense to you all in terms of your experiences with your exes? Was their meanness hard for you to understand? 

[kc sunshine]

One of the harder things for me to understand is the cruelty of some of my ex's actions. I can make sense of the discard (a fear engulfment, or the perceived need to abandon me before I abandon her), the push/pull, and the replacing me quickly, but what is harder to make sense of is the meanness. My friend (who knows and loves her) said something helpful yesterday-- she thinks it is that she wants me to suffer without her-- that that would help her self-esteem, that it was sadistic in the sense of giving her power. Does that make sense to you all in terms of your experiences with your exes? Was their meanness hard for you to understand? 

[VitaminC]

Hi Sunshine,

Yes, I had a lot of trouble making sense of the meanness. And there was a good bit of that. Often they were such little missiles that came out of nowhere during moments of niceness between us, that I was so shocked I thought I must have imagined it or completely misunderstood. In my confusion, and self-doubt (!), I didn't even ask what he meant by a comment. Alot of the time it was something much more subtle, just a look or a lack of a look or response, that it was hard to even pinpoint it.

I decided to take note of the moments and try to look at them over a two week period, but they were interspersed with sweetness and vulnerability. Also, I realised to get an accurate picture, I'd have to track myself - my own actions, motivations for them, and reactions to things.
IT would go well for a few days and then I'd get a bit distracted with work or whatever, and things would continue to happen and I'd lose the thread again.

Jeezus, it was a huge data gathering effort!

I blamed myself for months - I had made him feel insecure by refusing to commit loudly and consistently and by insisting on pursuing my own projects and friendships. I had made things worse by not being able to express myself clearly but played head-games with him. (I admit totally that I did approach the relationship with a lot of mixed feelings and some unresolved issues of my own)

How I began to see it, and see it now, is that it was three things:

1) anger at the relationship dwindling and me for "causing" it
2) a desire to right the wrongs I'd done him (as he saw it) - things going back right to the start of our relationship that he had never mentioned to me - so a kind of payback
3) a need to prove that he was a separate human being and not under my thumb (all that mirroring gets tiring and the resentment builds)

[SummerStorm]

Oh, absolutely.  My BPD friend can hurl such vitriol at people--at me, at her mom and dad, at boyfriends--and seemingly not care at all.  Some of it is dissociation, for sure.  But some of it comes from her warped perceptions of people.  Back in January, she went off on her mom and just called her awful names.  When her mom later expressed how upset she was by being called such names, my BPD friend replied, "Well, you were acting like a _________, so I called you one." 

She referred to herself once as a sadist, but I wouldn't label her as such because I don't think she actually gets pleasure from hurting others.  I think that, because she doesn't feel anything at all when she hurts others, she perceives herself as a sadist.  Like with every other aspect of her life, she just has no impulse control at all.

[Lucky Jim]

Hey KC, Sure, my BPDxW was often cruel and unkind, which I found hard to comprehend.  Sometimes I rationalized it by saying to myself that it was her disorder talking, not her.  But on some level I was unable to grasp how she could be so mean to someone (me) who she purported to love.  It was confusing and took a toll on my self-esteem.  No more.  Now we are LC after getting a divorce.

LuckyJim

[PennyDreadful]

I swear I could have written this thread! All through our 20 yrs, there has been that cruel, vicious Mr Hyde side to him that would come out and attack on occasion... .but once I left, that side is here to stay. Divorce proceedings have magnified it. I have since discovered the meaning of being painted black, and I know that is where I am. The part that has shocked me the most is that he is doing the same to our 19yo DD. That kid used to be the absolute darling of his heart, and now he has completely turned his back on her. I think that hurts me more than anything he could do or say to me. He told her one time that it was important that she be "on his side", and when she wouldn't do that, he cut her out. I think that is the absolute cruelest thing he could ever do to me, is hurt our DD on purpose.

[VitaminC]

From the DSM:
https://bpdfamily.com/content/borderline-personality-disorder

"Individuals with this disorder frequently express inappropriate, intense anger or have difficulty controlling their anger (Criterion 8). They may display extreme sarcasm, enduring bitterness, or verbal outbursts. The anger is often elicited when a caregiver or lover is seen as neglectful, withholding, uncaring, or abandoning"

If we remember, that part of the disorder is an extreme fear of abandonment (lurking constantly), a sense of shame, and a mistaking of emotions for facts - is it not logical that one who perceives themselves in some kind of danger at losing a love attachment, losing a soothing mechanism, or losing "face" will react with extreme defensiveness, ie. anger.

Anger can just be mean when it's meant to wound another, whatever the perceived reason for needing to defend oneself may be.