I am out of ideas in dealing with my mother with suspected BPD

[MountainLove]

Newbie here! I was referred to this page from a mindful/respectful parenting page when I was looking for a similar-minded group in which to seek advice on my relationship with my mother. Mindful/respectful parenting has been so healing for me with my son as I grew up in a very not mindful/respectful home. I would love some ideas of respectful, effective ways of interacting with my mom as my previous approaches are no longer working for me. I apologize for the length of this but felt I needed to provide some background for context.

I've gone through a number of rounds of therapy over the years working through this relationship with my mother and have come to peace with a lot of it (my mom has a lot of characteristics of narcissist/borderline personality disorder but I've just recently started looking into more about this). I feel like I've personally made a lot of progress in how I interact with my mom, setting boundaries, not letting her disapproval crush me, etc., but she has not worked on any of her issues, and thus, we still have cycles of the same "stuff" that come up--sometimes we can go a year or more, sometimes it's every few months. There doesn't seem to be a predictable pattern to when it happens other than when stressors in her life become overwhelming enough for her that she finds herself unable to cope and seeks solace in me, which I no longer allow, so she pushes against those boundaries I've set, falls back into her "You don't support me. I am the victim. You weren't abused. I wasn't a bad mom." etc. etc. pattern that seems to be typical of people who show characteristics of borderline personality disorder/narcissism. She doesn't have many friends, she and my dad both have maintenance drinking issues and he shuts down at night with a few glasses of wine (she uses alcohol to cope with anxiety and gets very emotional when she drinks), and she doesn't think she needs counseling. I understand her intense need for support, but I cannot provide much of that for her as the years have shown me that we're unable to maintain healthy boundaries when I allow her to vent about particular issues. As a child, I was often the mediator for my parents when they fought, I always pacified her upset by apologizing (even if I wasn't at fault), and she relied nearly solely on me for emotional support. As I grew into adulthood and pushed back against this as I worked on my own mental health, we have dealt with these cycles of her needing me to "fix" her emotional state and becoming nasty when I don't fulfill the role she thinks a daughter should (she often talks about how "daughters are supposed to _____". She has been on antidepressants for several decades but has only sought counseling a few times (and stops going because she doesn't like what therapists say about the work she needs to do).

I am currently going through another round of the same "stuff" with her. I have an (almost) 3 year old, and am 37w pregnant with our second child, and just really don't have time for nor do I want to devote the energy or patience to do much about it other than reiterate boundaries, call her out on her disrespectful tones, etc., but her constant badgering via text/calling is about to drive me insane as I try to create a peaceful "nest" for our own family in which to welcome our new baby. She recently called me (drunk) to vent about my dad, sister, her job, etc. and then a couple weeks later when we hadn't talked other than a couple surface level "how's the grandkid" text, she sent me a message asking if I was mad, that her work was stressful and I shouldn't push her away because she needs support. I replied back that I was frustrated that she disrespected the boundaries I had set many times with her regarding discussing her problems with my dad and sister, and that I was sorry her work was stressful but that I could not play the role she wanted me to play in coping with those stressors. She simply wrote back, "OK". Since then, she continues to send "Why don't you ever call me?" types of messages, and I'm just frankly worn out from it and feel like I need a new approach and am out of ideas. We don't have nor do I seek a close relationship with her (I've long made peace with that as I don't think her unresolved mental health issues allow for it), but I would really like to avoid just "cutting her off" as I didn't get to have a relationship with any of my grandparents or really even my extended family in general as a child because my mother frequently cut people out of her life at the slightest infraction, and I don't want to go down that road for my son.

I would love to find something that might help me with a "script"--dealing with instances as they happen--of what to say/how to say it as the "Why don't you ever call me?" "My job/marriage/life is stressful and you don't support me. That's what daughters are supposed to do" "I am always the victim and need to be constantly pitied" etc. occurs. My previous approaches don't seem to be working (or she's working really, really hard pushing those boundaries and maybe I just need to keep reiterating the same things and it will eventually work... .I don't know). Any directions or insights that anyone could provide would be very, very appreciated!

[Grandmotherbear]

Hello , glad to see you on the boards and I'm sorry you are going thru this/ Most people out in the real world have no idea what it's like to not have that Currier and Ives family perfection.
I must ask you- are you comfortable with your mother acting the same way with your children as she did with you? Back when I was in counselling, decades ago, I WISH one of my counselors had asked me this instead of trying to lead me to discover it for myself. I never did until MY children were grown and the damage has been done. My son's two wives have been exact copies of my BPD mother, each one ending in tears, lies, and stress when he finally realized they just enjoyed being drama queens and yanking him around.
My daughter has also been involved with BPD men and come close to suicide.

I was no contact with my mother for 6-7 years after I woke up about 3 a.m. Xmas morning to find my mother in my daughter's bedroom screaming at her, trying to drive her to suicide at the age of 11. The words aren't important because the script, the actual words, vary from family to family but the mechanisms remain the same. There is something that causes us, the wreckage of the family, emotional distress, and the BPD parent goes right to it and serves out bigger and bigger helpings until we admit we are responsible for everything that's wrong their world, including global warming, the flooding the Midwest, and concentration camps in WW2. And only our death( or psychic death) will make her happy.
Again I ask you. Are you comfortable with your mother putting your children through what she put you through? Because it will happen. That is the only script she has for parenting or grandparenting.

You said some things that make me imagine you are still hoping she will change. Honey, she won't change. You can lead the horse to water and all  that, but if the horse has BPD you will never get it to drink, even with the desert lying just ahead of you.

My mother died in January and I must admit, the past 40 years as I tried to maintain a relationship that wouldn't expose me to scorn and shame because I "abandoned" my mother-I now wish hadn't happened. Yes, she let my children sleep at her house when I worked night shift, but I could have found babysitters- in fact I did, when she decided she needed plastic surgery. Yes, she gave me a cheap car - I could have signed a note and financed it. Yes, she took us all to the local beaches in nice weather. I could have done that on my own- I had a car and could afford the gas.

I used to say I was trying to walk a fine line between "honoring" your father and your mother and letting her bully, shame and wreak destruction on us emotionally. I tried to protect my children from the worst of her excesses- there are things she did that I won't put down because it's not about me, it's about you.

But, are you content to leave her in contact with your children, knowing she will do the same thing to them she did to you?

Please think long and hard about it, and remember that if she ever claims she has changed, make her PROVE it to you by letting you-not your children- observe her for a year or two.

[Kwamina]

Hi MountainLove

I would like to welcome you to bpdfamily and congrats on the upcoming baby  

Dealing with a BPD parent can be very challenging indeed. I am glad you decided to reach out for support and advice here. We have some excellent resources on this site that can be very helpful and a lot of members who also have a BPD parent.

Since you are expecting your second child soon, I think it is very wise to stick to your boundaries and make your own well-being and that of your children your number one priority.

I am currently going through another round of the same "stuff" with her. I have an (almost) 3 year old, and am 37w pregnant with our second child, and just really don't have time for nor do I want to devote the energy or patience to do much about it other than reiterate boundaries, call her out on her disrespectful tones, etc., but her constant badgering via text/calling is about to drive me insane as I try to create a peaceful "nest" for our own family in which to welcome our new baby. She recently called me (drunk) to vent about my dad, sister, her job, etc.

To help you deal with her hostile or problematic messages, it might help to consider the following techniques/concepts:

Dealing with hostile e-mails, texts etc.: Keep it B.I.F.F. (Brief, Informative, Friendly (as in civil), Firm

Stopping circular arguments: Don't J.A.D.E (Justify, Argue, Defend, Explain)

Were you already familiar with these techniques/concepts?

I would love to find something that might help me with a "script"--dealing with instances as they happen--of what to say/how to say it

We describe several forms of structured communication on this site that can be very helpful when  communicating with disordered individuals. I specifically encourage you to take a look at S.E.T.:
Express your truth - S.E.T.: Support, Empathy, Truth

These structured ways of communicating can help you minimize the likelihood of (further) conflict while maximizing the likelihood of getting through to the other person. These techniques can also help us stay more calm ourselves. Whether your mother changes or not, ultimately is up to her and not something you can control. We might not be able to change the people with BPD in our lives, but what we can change is our own communication and how we respond to them. By changing that, we can and will change the dynamics of our relationships with our BPD family-members, regardless of whether they change or not.

There are also other highly effective communication techniques such as D.E.A.R.M.A.N. which is very useful when you want to assert yourself and affect change. The acronym D.E.A.R.M.A.N. stands for Describe, Express, Assert, Reinforce, Stay Mindful, Appear Confident and Negotiate.

Take care and welcome to bpdfamily

The Board Parrot

[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey MountainLove:  

I'd like to join Kwamina and GrandMotherBear in welcoming you and congratulating you on your pregnancy.

I'm so sorry about the situation with your mom. Kwamina gave you some great advice and links to a lot of good information to check out. Unfortunately, you have to keep enforcing your boundaries, because they will be tested.  If one of your boundaries is you won't interact with her when she is under the influence of alcohol, then you will need to enforce it each and every time.

Maybe you could tell your mom that your doctor wants you to minimize stress, so you would like to talk to her about positive things.  You might suggest that a therapist could help her sort out her conflicts and give her a more suitable place to vent and some tools to help her.

Does your mom get any physical exercise or have any hobbies?  (any health practice of self-soothing?)

I have a uBPD sister.  Interestingly, I had a conversation with my therapist last week about possibly sending my sister a letter in the future.  I plan to write the letter for therapeutic value and practice, but I don't know if I will ever send it.  I was coached to use "I" statements, so I've Googled "I" statements.  I thought I'd share a few links with you.  You could use the information to practice some planned statements to use with your mom.  Maybe you might want to formulate a few statements and come back and share them with us?

https://fc.amdsb.ca/~randy_john/S03BE5738.108/I%20vs.You%20Statements%20Activity.pdf

www.goodtherapy.org/blog/psychpedia/i-message

www.kimscounselingcorner.com/feelings-2/own-your-feelings-with-i-statements

[Sunfl0wer]

Hi, wanting to join others in saying welcome!

Looks like you have some excellent info already, so I'll just say one thought... .

I would love to find something that might help me with a "script"--dealing with instances as they happen--of what to say/how to say it as the "Why don't you ever call me?" "My job/marriage/life is stressful and you don't support me. That's what daughters are supposed to do" "I am always the victim and need to be constantly pitied" etc. occurs. My previous approaches don't seem to be working (or she's working really, really hard pushing those boundaries and maybe I just need to keep reiterating the same things and it will eventually work... .I don't know). Any directions or insights that anyone could provide would be very, very appreciated!

In my experiences with dealing with challenging people, my words did not matter nearly as much as my behavior.

There is a wealth of info to be found here in the members and resources within this site.  One of the biggest things I have learned is by reading lots on boundaries, what they mean, how to decide values, then behave in a way to honor mine.

Sometimes the person with BPD is not able to hear your words.  I say, ... .behavior is a stronger commnicator.

And something even trickier for me to grasp was that my desired audience to my behavior being communicated is not primarily the other person, but actually is ME!

When I am behaving in a way that states to me that I am worthy of having my own values independent from another, respecting these values, that is where real change and peace began for me.

  (Peace with my decision to honor my values no matter the thoughts or feelings or reactions from others) (I see many struggle with the idea of beginning to set boundaries, making the "ability" to do so dependent on another person, wanting the other person to be ok with it in some way, wanting cooperation of some level from the people around them.  This usually leads to frustrations until we realize the boundaries are for ourself and ultimately about us.)

By the way, working on communicating my boundaries to all, me include, through my behavior, has been an ongoing thing for over a year as I keep learning what it means exactly.