My mother is "threatening" to move closer

[Attie]

I'm mostly lurking on these forums. I read. I try and learn. I wrote a few posts in the last 2 years. I'll try and do a summary from my story to fill you all in... .

I'm the daughter of an undiagnosed BPD mother and I've been struggling all my life with fleas, fears that I might have it as well etc.

She's the Witch type. Perfect to the outside. Perfect in her good moments. A monster otherwise.

She would flip between perfect mother and monster which made it enormously difficult for me. I couldn't hate her, she was my mother and whenever I was in trouble she'd be the best listener, take care of me and usually fix the trouble. Then a few days later in one of the black moments she'd use everything against me. And make sure I knew I'm scum.

There was emotional and physical abuse. She's intelligent. I believe the emotional abuse was of the most cruel and intentional and calculated nature.

But, according to her, she doesn't remember.

I don't know whether to believe that or not. It's possible. I've seen her face when I suggested she was less than perfect... .she looked heartbroken. I don't know.

In her eyes she's perfect mother, tried her best and my father was the violent one and she had to protect me from him. At some point she tried to tell me I'm schizophrenic, since I remember my childhood all wrong.

I'll never be able to tell her what she's done. She wouldn't believe it and it would just devastate her.

I tried minimal contact, it worked for a while, but it escalated again. This time she ended up storming out of my apartment in 2014.

When I mentioned BPD she got really angry and told me I think she's crazy (that was the reason she stormed out in 2014).

I moved away.

Her family doesn't talk to her anymore, because she started fights and finally they've given up. My father tries sometimes but it usually ends in disaster.

And now this woman is alone. All alone. No friends, no family and her only daughter left her as well. After everything she did for us. After she sacrificed herself for us.

We speak on the phone every now and then. I feel guilty. Because she's alone.

I feel so bad for her all alone. I love how much she enjoys when I call her or ask her to come visit me. She lights up. Then she rages. Over something small. And destroys everything. And I can't do this but I feel so guilty for leaving her alone... . 

And then the other day she finally asked: Would you consider, you and your partner, to move in with me?

I WHAT?

Or, I could move in with you?

I WHAT?

I'm terrified.

"Please think about it. I'm alone. I have no one. Life makes no sense when you're alone. I don't know what to do with myself."

I have to say no.
Obviously.
I have to say it to her face.
I don't know how.
I know how. But I don't know how to face that... .and do it.

I'm utterly paralyzed.

[Finding Courage]

I'm struggling with the guilt of my mother "being alone" too after no contact.  It is very hard.
I try and remind myself that it is her choices, her behaviors, that make people avoid her.  It is either me or her, and I have to choose me- even though she acts like that will kill her. 
I also try and remind myself that no one has to be alone.  There are clubs, senior centers, online dating, churches etc. if a person truly wants social contact.  But their behavior drives everyone away, and I can't fix that.  I wish I could make it better, but I just can't do it at my expense anymore. 
My therapist said this will be one of the hardest things I do, to set this boundary.  It sounds like it might be for you too.  Her happiness isn't dependent on you.  It shouldn't and can't be.
Best wishes to you.

[HappyChappy]

Hi Attie,

I’m so sorry you feel paralysed by this.  But as someone with PTSD, I get that when my BPD launches a major attack. But you know that fear will go. You know she can not move in, she will not move in. But it sounds like she’s expert at bombarding you, to confuse, to panic.

Sounds like you need to put up your boundaries. Can’t you address this by e-mail or letter ? A face to face is playing to her strength. Is it possible there’s some legality in your lease that won’t allow extra tenants ? Or if it’s your home, totally understable that you would want to keep it as your home.

I appreciate that you feel sorry that your mom’s alone, but does she feel sorry that you’re alone? Normally it’s the parent that helps the child in that respect, it’s not your  responsibility. Sounds like you need to focus on yourself right now, and what your needs are. You do not have to present yourself to someone who’s abusive to you. No one does. And you’re not alone, you’re part of the bpdfamily (special lurking division).  Here are some links that might help  :

What is a panic attack? How to deal with them.

Workshop - US: What it means to be in the “FOG”

[Fie]

Hello Attie 

First of all a big hug, because I can feel this is really difficult for you.
Take a deep breath. She cannot harm you anymore. You are an adult now.

Of course you should not allow her to move in with you. You have your own life now, and you have a partner. Your focus should be on that.

Finding Courage and HappyChappy gave you some pretty good advise. I personally however would not try to find an excuse like not being able to have extra tenants. You don't want your mum in your house because you have grown up now, period. That's how life goes. She should understand that.

I know how BPD works, so I understand you. Both my mum and grandma have it. So I know all about FOG and I get where you are coming from. Try to keep in mind though that your mum is alone because she *chooses to be alone* - that's what happens when you drive everyone away.

I think us children of BPD sometimes go to too great lengths to try to obtain something that was never there in the first place and never will be.

[Naughty Nibbler]

HEY ATTIE:  

I'm sorry about what is going on with your mom.  I agree with everyone else, you definitely don't want to live with her.  You have probably read about FOG before, but it can be helpful to reread it or read it for the first time.

How old is your mom?  :)oes she work or is she retired?

When I mentioned BPD she got really angry and told me I think she's crazy (that was the reason she stormed out in 2014).

Her family doesn't talk to her anymore, because she started fights and finally they've given up. My father tries sometimes but it usually ends in disaster.  And now this woman is alone. All alone. No friends, no family and her only daughter left her as well.

I've seen her face when I suggested she was less than perfect... .she looked heartbroken. I don't know.

It is probably best to not mention BPD, but to address unacceptable behavior with your mom and  BOUNDARIES

How does your mom explain why everyone has cut off contact with her?  :)oes she not realize that her raging is the cause?

You can't fix her, she has to do that herself.  Perhaps you could convince her to go to counseling, not by mentioning BPD or her flaws, but perhaps by suggesting that a lot of people hit points in their life when they seek some coaching for the future and making some life changes.

Your mom has to be responsible for her own happiness.  She can do volunteer work and seek friends in various ways.  If she is at the age where she might fit into a retirement community, that might be the move she should plan for.

[Attie]

I'm struggling with the guilt of my mother "being alone" too after no contact.  It is very hard.
I try and remind myself that it is her choices, her behaviors, that make people avoid her.  It is either me or her, and I have to choose me- even though she acts like that will kill her. 
I also try and remind myself that no one has to be alone.  There are clubs, senior centers, online dating, churches etc. if a person truly wants social contact.  But their behavior drives everyone away, and I can't fix that.  I wish I could make it better, but I just can't do it at my expense anymore. 
My therapist said this will be one of the hardest things I do, to set this boundary.  It sounds like it might be for you too.  Her happiness isn't dependent on you.  It shouldn't and can't be.
Best wishes to you.

All fair points. But how do I tell her why she is alone? She honestly thinks she's a great person and everyone else abandoned her. Doesn't help that paranoia is one of her major symptoms. She thinks she's in therapy for depression because everyone abandons her. Don't think the therapist ever even gets to see a glimpse of the BPD. Whenever I brought up the past, she looks shocked, hurt and says I remember it wrong and that it is not true. She thinks my father has manipulated me into thinking that she's the bad person, when it was in fact him. How do I tell someone to stay away that 100% believes they're just a good person abandoned by everyone?

[Attie]

Hi Attie,

I’m so sorry you feel paralysed by this.  But as someone with PTSD, I get that when my BPD launches a major attack. But you know that fear will go. You know she can not move in, she will not move in. But it sounds like she’s expert at bombarding you, to confuse, to panic.

Sounds like you need to put up your boundaries. Can’t you address this by e-mail or letter ? A face to face is playing to her strength. Is it possible there’s some legality in your lease that won’t allow extra tenants ? Or if it’s your home, totally understable that you would want to keep it as your home.

Thank you for the links

She is threatening to visit, which since I live far away and have only seen her once in 2 years, feel like I can't really refuse. So the face to face will happen. She'll make it happen. Also, yes it's our home. She is talking about either buying a house and moving me and my partner into it, or we move into the house she already has. How is it acceptable to demand of a person in their mid 30's that lives with a partner, to suddenly have the mother move in? I just don't get how she can even ask this... .and put me into this position. Starting to get angry about it actually.

[Attie]

HEY ATTIE:  

How old is your mom?  :)oes she work or is she retired?

It is probably best to not mention BPD, but to address unacceptable behavior with your mom and  BOUNDARIES

How does your mom explain why everyone has cut off contact with her?  :)oes she not realize that her raging is the cause?

You can't fix her, she has to do that herself.  Perhaps you could convince her to go to counseling, not by mentioning BPD or her flaws, but perhaps by suggesting that a lot of people hit points in their life when they seek some coaching for the future and making some life changes.

She's about to be retired. Still works at the moment. She's in counselling for depression because everyone abandons her and she's lonely.

She doesn't remember any raging. Or at least is very good at pretending she doesn't remember. In fact I once told her she used to hit me and she looked all shocked and replied: That was your father.

Whether she actually doesn't remember or doesn't want to, I don't know. The fact that it's a possibility she doesn't makes it so hard to tell her why I want her to stay away.

Unacceptable behavior these days is starting to scream at me. However, I do know when to remove myself from the situation so I haven't had more than 3 or 4 of those incidents in the last 5 years.

It doesn't help that she's a very educated person but also has the attitude that everyone else is stupid and not worth her time. She goes to meet ups of people who graduated from her university, decides they're all really dumb and walks away again. I have 0 hopes for her ever meeting someone who actually fits her criteria and then decides to stick around. Especially because she does the 6 first month pedestal perfection thing, then decides they're the worst person she's ever met. Every time. Every friend. Every boss. Every new job.

[Panda39]

"She is threatening to visit, which since I live far away and have only seen her once in 2 years, feel like I can't really refuse."

I would argue that you can refuse, that it is within your power to do so.  The answer is "No" we just aren't up to visitors right now or "No" I want to live on my own with my partner I'm not comfortable moving in together with you.

She is soo blowing FOG your way.  "Fear" that she will invade your life or "Fear" that she can't take care of herself.  Creating "Obligation" because according to her you are her daughter and owe her something.  "Guilt" because according to her it's your fault she's all alone with no one in her life.

All of what she is blowing your way is false... .she can't invade your life unless you let her, she is an adult and can take care of herself, she is your mother but an abusive mother I would argue that you owe her nothing, and she is alone because she has driven everyone away.  Her feelings and her life are not your responsibility they are hers.

If you are like me, I would guess that your anger is because you feel conflicted between what you want to do (live your life mostly mother free) and what you feel like you should do (rescue your mother).  I always find the place in between "want" and "should" a really hard place to be and I too get angry... .I would describe it as frustrated.  Angry that I'm put in that spot, I could be frustrated with the person who put me in that spot, could be angry at myself because I struggle to ask for what I want or need and don't want to hurt someone's feelings or let them down.  What I have found to get myself out of that spot is to be honest.

An example:  I was invited to go dancing with a large group that I am a member of.  I don't like to dance... .not my thing.  I went right to that conflicted place... .I want to participate, I want to be there to support the organizers of the evening but I don't like to dance, if I went it would feel like I was there out of obligation.  I finally told the organizer just that... .That dancing really just wasn't my thing, that if I went it would have been out of a sense of obligation and I would end up not having a good time, so I decided not to go, but that I hoped everyone that did go had a good time. 

Other people handled the conflict in a different way, they said they'd go.  The organizer made reservations, paid the cover charge in advance and 1/2 the people that said they were going to attend didn't.  Even though it was hard for me to do what I wanted, I was honest and that was the right thing for me and the organizer of the party.

I know the above story is not the same or as emotionally loaded as your mom trying to force her way into your life and your house! But I truly believe that honesty is the best way out of this conundrum.  She can accept it or more likely than not she will be angry but you need to live your life the way you choose and she will have to figure out her own life.

My SO when leaving his uBPDxw was concerned about her ability to take care of herself... .can we all say "FOG"... .anyway when talking to his mom about that she told him the ex was like a cat she always lands on her feet, and guess what she did.  She found another care taker and now actually lives with her divorce attorney    I would say the same to you your mom is an adult, you are not responsible for her happiness, and she will land on her feet.

Panda39




 

[HappyChappy]

I just don't get how she can even ask this... .and put me into this position. Starting to get angry about it actually.

Hi Attie,

You’re right, it’s not acceptable at all. But it does sound like A typical BPD behaviour. When my dad was very ill, his BPD wife tried everything to move them out of the house and sell up.  She wanted the money to go travelling. Now leaving a very ill partner to go travelling, turfing them out of their house against their will. Also not acceptable. So she tried to get us to move in with them. In the end she just e-mailed me two days before leaving the country “look after your dad” and went travelling anyway. We  don’t live close. Sound like your BPD is trying to anchor you, because she’s worried of being abandoned.  Our BPD nagged her hubby to death, but he didn’t sell up. And as for getting us to move in with them, we just said we might have to move for work and she lost interest. Best of luck. 

[Attie]

All of what she is blowing your way is false... .she can't invade your life unless you let her, she is an adult and can take care of herself, she is your mother but an abusive mother I would argue that you owe her nothing, and she is alone because she has driven everyone away.  Her feelings and her life are not your responsibility they are hers.
 

Okay. I'm aware of those concepts. But thank you for reminding me, I tend to forget.

However, my question stands, how do I tell someone who doesn't remember herself as a 'bad' person, who doesn't remember her dark moments, who thinks she was great and who feels abandoned and doesn't realize it's her own fault, why I'm not willing to have more contact?

[Notwendy]

I think BPD exists on a spectrum, and perhaps some people might be able to comprehend "why" but I know telling my mother about how she treated me as a child would not work.

When establishing boundaries, it is best to use the word "I" and not the word "you" when discussing them.

No, mother, I do not wish for us to move in with you or you with me".

She may then react, act out, rage, ask why-

then repeat--

Discussing what she did to you in the past is a possible entry on to the drama triangle. She will perceive you as attacking her, go into victim mode, and react.

For my mother, such reactions of dysregulation are so intense, she almost ( I say almost because I think she truly knows but it causes her such a shame trigger she rejects the memory) forgets what was said in the moment. It's as if telling her "why" does no good. So, I just hold the boundary.

One example is that she has disliked my father's FOO since they met. My father is deceased. I continue to have a relationship with his FOO, but she does not. She heard we were invited to a  get together with them, and she had a fit that she was not invited- by people she has not spoken to in years. Reminding her of why she was not invited would not have made a difference in the moment. I can see why her feelings were hurt- - it was felt as a rejection, but  the reality was that they didn't want her to attend. Her reaction to us for going- was to give us the ST for weeks, but we did and she came around.

My mother has at times, mentioned moving near me. The first time, I did react with an explanation ( my father was alive at the time) . The reason for the explanation to them- it an attempt to get them to understand the issues- her behavior- but if discussing it could lead to anything productive- understanding- it would have worked a long time ago. Basically, she dysregulates and doesn't learn from it. She also dysregulates if I set a boundary. I have found it best to just stick with the boundary.

They both just got angry at me.

We don't have to be cruel, but we need to be firm and able to stay firm during their reaction. We can validate their feelings " Mom, I understand that you want this, but we want our private lives together"  "Mom, I understand that it is hurtful to not be invited to X's event" ( but we are going. )

IMHO, the briefer and to the point statement - validate the feeling- state your boundary- is the way to go.

[Panda39]

I like what Notwendy said about using "I" messages when talking with your mom.  Make it about you not her.

Sounds like mom gaslights... .making her reality different than yours and tries to convince you that her reality is accurate.  Remember feelings = facts to someone with BPD.  So trying to convince her your reality is correct/real will be ineffective.  I hear you wanting some validation from her about your childhood experience but unfortunately I doubt you will receive it, it is too painful for her or she is just incapable of giving it.

"IMHO, the briefer and to the point statement - validate the feeling- state your boundary- is the way to go."  I second Notwendy. 

Panda39