Is this an extinction burst?

[Hmcbart]

So yesterday after my wife's sister and boyfriend left, she comes to me and starts asking questions. I'm pretty sure it comes from talking to her sister to get validation for her feelings.

She said the she saw the way I would talk with her sisters boyfriend and would laugh and joke and have fun.  She said her sister and boyfriend would go to dinner and it would last a few hours.  She said they would eat and drink and talk for the entire dinner.  She then asked why I don't do that with her.  She asked if it was just because I don't have anything to say to her.  I tried not to answer but ultimately said "yes".  I told her that I have learned over the years to keep my feelings and emotions hidden to protect myself.  I explained that when she is happy with me and everything seems to be going good is when I've always started to open up and let her in.  It's then that I get the feeling that I'm longing for from her.  The love and affection I need from her.  After a few weeks of this feeling, something happens and you change to thinking I'm evil and all those things you were doing disappear and get replaced by mean and negative things.  I told her I can't do it anymore and have just stopped even believing it's possible. 

From there she began explaining how my actions are hurting her. She told me how her step mom and her therapist both told her that I'm never going to be able to think about anyone but myself.  (I think she has told them I'm a narcissist after getting the idea from my sister who has divorcing a narcissist). She went on and on about how I am the one hurting her.  At one point she asked if I was cheating on her in an offhand way.  When I followed up her startment with why does she think I'm cheating, she said because I am mad that she even asked me.  During the entire conversation I never once raised my voice or even changed my tone.  I kept my voice low and even.  But somehow she came up with the fact that I was mad.

Long story short my actions to protect my emotions are hurting her and that I'm turn is why she doesn't want to show me affection and have sex.  Because when she asked me about going away for the weekend and all I did was say "sure,ok".  Which was my exact wording when she asked me. Of course I can't get excited about the prospect of going away and spending time alone because she always has an excuse why she can't.  The days after she brought up going away, she was already making excuses as to why it wasn't going to happen.   But somehow I'm the one to blame. 

Is this an extinction burst to my boundaries or was I wrong to have not gotten excited about something that I new she wouldn't follow through with?

If I hadn't been through the same scenario hundreds of times when it comes to things I would like to happen only to have her make an excuse to why it can't, I would have been happy and excited about it. But I live in reality and can't remember a time in the last 10 years where she actually came through on any of these things.

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[jrharvey]

I don't think this is an extinction burst. This feels so personal to me. I could have written this myself.

It also goes to show that people with BPD can never really understand your feelings. This should have been a moment for her to listen to you. Instead she made it about her and on top of that accused you of having an affair because she cannot possibly be at fault. It must be something you are doing wrong. Since she cannot validate you I will. I know exactly how this feels and I bet it hurts. Having someone open you up to a point you spill your feelings and having those same feelings ignored then twisted to make you look bad. Its awful.

I'm actually in the same boat as you. I'm amazed you have stayed sane the last 10 years. I'm right there with you and only dating my GF for less than 2 years. I know the exact moment I became jaded. We fought over and over and over again and each time she would get happy again and I would bounce back giving her another chance and acting happy. It was the day after a terrible fight. Like always it started over nothing. She had insecure questions about things I was doing while I was at work and I stood up for myself just telling her I didn't want to answer these questions and she accused me of blowing up and getting angry when I was very calm and just holding a boundary. The fight exploded with her threatening me with the relationship and my anger getting out of control and me breaking all our pictures etc... .

The next day she was completely fine of course. As if nothing happened. I was completely shaken up. How could she threated to end the relationship one night and be completely happy and prancing around the next. I tried to be the happy person but I couldn't stop thinking about what happened and the things that were said. We went shopping for groceries that day and I tried my best to act happy but she flipped out in the store and marched away from me because I had a "sour face" and she told me in front of all those people to "NEVER be around her with that look again". I know I should not have but her running away caused an instinct in me to chase her down and try to explain that I am still just hurting from the day before but she called me all kinds of names for "not getting over it". I let her just walk away and at that point I left the store and thought about it for a while. I was gone for 30 minutes probably and she didn't bother to see where I went or what I was doing.

At that point I realized there is no way I can convince her of what she is doing. I cant make her see things. I tried talking to her about the same things you did and why its hard to just act natural around her. She wouldn't understand. She said I was ruining everything. Me... .Its my fault. I'm dealing with a sick person. I'm dealing with someone incapable of understanding how their own actions contribute to their own problems. I also realized that at that point my attempts to act natural or happy when deep down inside I was hurting was making things worse. Its a form of walking on eggshells.

[jrharvey]

From this point on I vow to just act how I feel. I wont purposely try to hurt her or anything but I wont hide anything and if she wants to know whats going on then ill just be honest with her. I cant help that I feel that way and it does more bad than good to hide it. Trying to just go on my way and not take anything personal is tough but its the only thing I know to do now.

[Hmcbart]

Thanks for the reply.  I have a long talk with her today and tried to explain my feelings again. Why I reacted the way I did and why I hide my feelings and emotions. She got upset at one point and told me that she wasn't going to just spread her legs for me and how she had been trying to reach out to me and show affection but I just push her away.  My words were drown out after about 5 minutes. She spoke the rest of the time.  I got off the phone but called her back about an hour later.  She texted me saying she would call me back. I texted her saying ok that I needed to say something I don't want it to be through text. 

When she called me I let her know that I can't and won't do this anymore. I've had years of her treating me the way she has and I'm done.  I reminded her that she acknowledged how she has treated me many times over the years and even promised to change the way she treats me.  So many time I can't count them all. Every time we go through this nothing ever really changes.  I told her that I don't have the emotional strength left in me to keep going. 

She started talking about her depression and how she's always had it and a month ago I told her I would support her to get help.  I explained that I have tried to support you but you won't do anything to get help.  From my perspective you are doing exactly like you have done for years. Make promises and then don't keep them.  I'm am done with this life. I am no going to live this way anymore.  I need things from my you and you refuse to do them and even berate me for asking for sex and affection. I'm not living that way anymore. 

I told her I love her and want her to get help with the depression but I can't and won't live this way anymore.  I don't have the emotional strength left to give you the  support you need. 

That was about the end of it. She had to get off the phone to get the kids from school.  I've basically been worthless at work all day.  I haven't eaten avid I have a headache at this point. 

My biggest fear now is if I have the strength left to even go home and be around her.  I'm not expecting her to get angry at this point. Honestly it would make things easier if she did.  It's that scared sound in her voice that I fear.  Because I know I will try and save the day.  I hate the way I feel right now.

[Meili]

I'm sorry to hear that you've reached this point. What is your plan now?

[jrharvey]

It sounds like you have hit rock bottom. I feel like I have been there before. But the good thing is you realize you cannot go or feel any lower. You start thinking to yourself... .what do I have to loose? You start respecting yourself and your needs. You start putting your new self back together. Do what you need to do and don't feel guilty for doing you.

[icky]

. I told her that I don't have the emotional strength left in me to keep going.  . She started talking about her depression and how she's always had it and a month ago I told her I would support her to get help.  I explained that I have tried to support you but you won't do anything to get help.  From my perspective you are doing exactly like you have done for years. Make promises and then don't keep them.  I'm am done with this life. I am no going to live this way anymore. .

. my partner does this too - he claims to be "fine" and always in the right. only when i say "i can't bear this anymore, i'm leaving" does he suddenly pull things like "depression" out of a hat, like a magic trick. i think he's learned that "people aren't allowed to kick you when you're down" so he mentions it instinctually, because he thinks that's what will stop me kicking (i.e. leaving) him. the last time he did it, i told him i wasn't falling for that - he'd done it too many times before (with ZERO attempts to seek counselling or therapy or even just addressing the issue)

[Hmcbart]

Thanks for the replies. 

Melli, I'm not sure what my plan is now. I feel like the dog that finally catches the car he's been chasing his whole life.  What happens after you catch it. 

She told me that she has an appointment with a therapist but couldn't get in until after Thanks Giving.  I am sure that she probably called them yesterday after months of me asking her to do it. 

I am tired of all of this and can't keep living this way.  she tried telling me yesterday that I misunderstood what she was saying Sunday. That's the same thing she always tries to say.  She tries to put all the blame on me and accuses me of cheating and how I'm hurting her. Then when I step up and tell her I'm not going to play this game anymore and tell her I'm done, she says I misunderstood her and that's not what she was saying. 

At this point I may not leave yet but I'm definitely done playing her game.  I've got a lot to think about and plan before I leave. We have 2 kids to think about. I am going to start working on an exit strategy.  I don't have enough faith in her anymore that she will go through with getting help.  I may see some changes in how she treats me in the short term but I can't go on the belief that they will be long term changes.  My reactions to her efforts may not help either. I don't know if I can ever fully open myself up any more. 

I have a lot to think about.

[Wrongturn1]

Hmcbart,

Sounds like you were at a breaking point, and understandably so.  Can you give us an update on how things went yesterday evening? 

Regardless of how things went, I'd encourage you to take good care of yourself - eat right and get some exercise so you'll be equipped to handle the BPD stress.  Also, if there's anyone you can talk with about this (friend, family, counselor), it might help to talk it through with someone.

Rooting for you, bud.

[Meili]

I think that it's great that you aren't going to participate anymore. Ending the conflict, and establishing and maintaining healthy boundaries will go a long way in helping you reach a healthier spot.

[Hmcbart]

Things were pretty much silent yesterday.  She had locked herself in the bedroom when I got home. I went in through the laundry room, no lock.  She was Laing on the chaise lounge when I can in.  I changed and laid down on the bed and asked if she wanted to talk.  She didn't say anything.  After about 30 minutes she got up and laid down next to me and out her head on my chest but never spoke. We laid there for about an hour and a half until our youngest came in to check on us.  Then she got up and made dinner.  I had a had a headache from the stress and not eating all day so I laid back down and went to sleep. 

She came in at one point and went to bed but got up after about 30 minutes and went upstairs.  This morning she said she couldn't sleep because of the headache medicine she took with caffeine in it and didn't want to keep me awake tossing and turning.

That's about it.  I don't think she wanted to talk.  She had asked me to send her a copy of what I had told her earlier in the day because I told her I wrote it down so I wouldn't forget.  That was right before I got home.  I sent it to her and I think reading it is why she was locked in the bedroom. 

She has done this many times before.  She will try to get close to me and hold me when she knows I'm at the end of my rope. 

I haven't been to my therapist in about a month because of conflicts at work but I will be trying to get in after thanks giving.  It's hard to function after days like yesterday. I have to be with my boss all day for 2 different meetings but my head isn't really in it right now. 

On a different note, after talking with her sisters boyfriend this weekend I learned that her family is asking some questions.  They can't figure out why she is so unhappy.  She doesn't have to work and I pretty much do everything so why is she so unhappy.  He has heard some of the things she has told them about me and knows the truth now.  I'm tired of making up stuff to explain her issues so now when I'm asked, I tell the truth.  At least it adds a different slant to the current narrative she tells them.

[jrharvey]

She doesn't have to work and I pretty much do everything so why is she so unhappy.

This is your own answer. Sometimes the most lonely and unhappy people are those that do nothing. As humans we need purpose. I know as a man I need to get things done, accomplished and fixed. I feel like women have that same need to feel like they are needed and important. If she doesn't work or do anything it can be incredibly unfulfilling. Does she have any hopes and dreams?

[Hmcbart]

She used to have hopes and dreams but we don't have those intimate conversations and haven't in years.  I stopped saying anything about her going to work several years ago. She was complaining about not being around adults so I told her we could put the boys in day care and she could get a job.  She turned it around and told me that she wasn't going to get a job because if I divorce her she wants all the alimony she can get.  That was probably 5-6 years ago and I haven't brought it up since. 

She volunteers at the school but the. Tells me I get mad when she does it. I don't get bad mad at her for doing it. I get upset when she does that but does nothing around the house and refuses to do anything with me.

[foodlover]

WOW. Your trapped. Your absolutely trapped. This is why I care about the mens rights movement. That is so messed up. She told you she wants alimony if you divorce her? What? So unfair. So very unfair.

[Hmcbart]

Yep, that's the way it feels.  So when I told her yesterday I fell like she is trying to push me to cheat so she will have a valid reason to leave, it's from years of hearing things like this.  I now know her family is asking themselves how can she be so unhappy.  I'm sure she knows this also. If what she has told them in the past about me is starting to unravel then me cheating would help make her case that I'm a horrible person.  At least that's the way it feels to me and that's having 19 years of experience with her behaviors and actions.

[Wrongturn1]

She turned it around and told me that she wasn't going to get a job because if I divorce her she wants all the alimony she can get. 

Wow, that's a classic right there... .I think a person would have to have a BPD spouse to believe anyone would actually say that, but I do, and I believe it.    I'm surprised she would be that honest about it, sheesh. 

Sounds like she may be hoping that you forgot what you said to her yesterday.

[Hmcbart]

 Sadly she has probably moved on and everything that was said yesterday is a thing of the past.  She told me Sunday that her past therapist abd her step mom told her that I would never be able to see things her way and I will only think of myself.  This is the kind of stuff I have to deal with.  Someone else enabling her and then she tries to use it against me. 

I'm pretty sure I put a stop to it for the short term.  Hopefully long enough to figure out how to come up with a new plan or exit strategy.  I do love her and that's the toughest part. That plus 21 years of being together.  History can make thing harder even when you have hind site to reference the truth.