At divorce mediation my w said wanted back with me or divorce me by 12/31/16

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

My diagnosed wife said that she either wanted to be divorced from me or that we get back together by end of the year.  My lawyers jaw hit the floor in amazement especially with all the lawyer knows about what has happened over the last 10 months since I moved out.  She said you would be crazy.  How could she even think that way. 

I know why my soon to be ex wife would think that way, it is because that has been our cycle.  Probably more surprising to me is that there is something in me that would like to get back together.  That is our dysfunctional dance. 

I know that
1.  things would be worse as she would see I gave in to her demands
2.  I would have to totally get rid myself of any outside contacts with family to get back with her to keep her from dis-regulating. 
3.  That I would be miserable for most of the time and only relaxed when she was happy. 

It would be just one more recycle.  But I miss the kids.   I miss the feeling that we are 'married' and the perceived status that gives (I know that is very shallow thinking).  We live in a very pro-family and pro-marriage church community.  I have been alienated from the 4 oldest kids.

Its hard

[Sluggo]

My diagnosed wife said that she either wanted to be divorced from me or that we get back together by end of the year.  My lawyers jaw hit the floor in amazement especially with all the lawyer knows about what has happened over the last 10 months since I moved out.  She said you would be crazy.  How could she even think that way. 

I know why my soon to be ex wife would think that way, it is because that has been our cycle.  Probably more surprising to me is that there is something in me that would like to get back together.  That is our dysfunctional dance. 

I know that
1.  things would be worse as she would see I gave in to her demands
2.  I would have to totally get rid myself of any outside contacts with family to get back with her to keep her from dis-regulating. 
3.  That I would be miserable for most of the time and only relaxed when she was happy. 

It would be just one more recycle.  But I miss the kids.   I miss the feeling that we are 'married' and the perceived status that gives (I know that is very shallow thinking).  We live in a very pro-family and pro-marriage church community.  I have been alienated from the 4 oldest kids.

Its hard

[icky]

. oh dear. with kids it's hard - no easy decisions. how old are your kids? can you tell us more about your relationship to them? do you not have any visitation/ custody things agreed on or being negotiate?

[Mutt]

Hi Sluggo,

I miss the feeling that we are 'married' and the perceived status that gives (I know that is very shallow thinking).

I think that this was one of the most difficult things for me, the status of being a husband, but if my wife was not interested in working on the marriage or is on a path of self destruction and not weighing the impact of her choices / actions on the family, I can't work with that. Also, I had to let go of my ego with the role of being a husband.

My lawyers jaw hit the floor in amazement especially with all the lawyer knows about what has happened over the last 10 months since I moved out

That works for you, because the L's see the dysfunction first hand.

do you not have any visitation/ custody things agreed on or being negotiate?

I'd like to echo hmmm, what is the custody arrangement? I miss the kids when I was denied access, later when it was share custody I missed them when I didn't have them on my week, but you get used to it.

I didn't want the kids to see dad get attacked by mom in the household, the best thing that my ex wife did was walk away from the marriage because she doesn't have a voice in my house, there's no fighting or a partner that is trying to over control the household because she's feeling out of control, I get the spend one on one time with the kids and spend more time with them then I was married, my time is not consumed in my ex wife's dysfunction.

[Grey Kitty]

1.  things would be worse as she would see I gave in to her demands
2.  I would have to totally get rid myself of any outside contacts with family to get back with her to keep her from dis-regulating. 
3.  That I would be miserable for most of the time and only relaxed when she was happy. 

If you can't keep your family and friends in your life with her, and you cannot weather at least some of her bad moods and stay grounded, I don't see a reconciliation (or recycle) going well for you.

Have you been able to stand up to her regarding shared custody and the kids so far?
You need to be a lot stronger than that to make it work well.

Can you imagine telling her that you will consider reconciling, but that it won't be the way it was before?

Can you imagine standing up to her and making it happen?

[Lucky Jim]

Hey sluggo, Agree w/GK that those three points don't bode well for a successful reconciliation, though I admire your fortitude in seriously considering the merits of returning, mostly for the sake of your kids, it seems.  You already know that it would mean going back into the lion's den, which takes guts on your part.  The question I have for you is: what kind of a message are you sending to the kids if you go back?  I can't tell from your post.

LuckyJim

[Foolsgold]

Scary to go back... High risk.  Ive been separated since May.  Of course there is a side to me that would love to be back with her... .in a fantasy world.  If I'm ok with the chance of getting AIDS from her promiscuity.  Or her leaving with our son and no chance of custody.  No, I think I will not go back.  I look forward to final court hearing.  I think TRUTH will be revealed. I will save our son.  To at least have visitations and be there for him in some way.  Wish me luck!

[Sluggo]

Hmmm,

how old are your kids?  16s,15d,12d,10d,7s,6d,2s

can you tell us more about your relationship to them?  The relationship with the my kids was solid with all but the oldest.  With the oldest it was hit and miss.  I take responsibility with that as I was not the father I wanted to be with him when he was younger.  It seemed like my wife was jealous with the time I spent with him (or any of the kids).  I was not strong/wise enough to see that I was feeding into her behaviors. 

The other kids in  red my relationship is practically non existent now.  My daughters don't come out of their rooms.  My stb ex said to me with the girls beside me, why would a man want to have girls in his house all by himself.  Stb BPD ex has said many other things with me there, I can only imagine what is said when I am not there. 

do you not have any visitation/ custody things agreed on or being negotiate?  I am still in the prelim order which was written poorly and not understood by both parties.  I did everything wrong that day of the prelim order.  I don't even have state minimum guidelines out of my ignorance and bad counsel (I got a new one that same day of the prelim order)  I get 2 kids every 1st and 3rd weekends and can see all kids on 2nd and 4th.  That has been in place for 10 months while waiting for the custody evaluation.  That is suppose to be finished on first week of december.    Court did just grant us the ability to use a Parenting Coordinator. 

So the sadness has been the lack of seeing them which is minimal. 

Mutt,

 

she doesn't have a voice in my house, there's no fighting or a partner that is trying to over control the household because she's feeling out of control, I get the spend one on one time with the kids and spend more time with them then I was married, my time is not consumed in my ex wife's dysfunction.

  YES YES!  Thank you for keeping things in perspective. 

Also, I had to let go of my ego with the role of being a husband.

  BINGO Yes I think I carry pride with that role especially always thinking I would never get divorced like my parents. 

GK,

Have you been able to stand up to her regarding shared custody and the kids so far?
You need to be a lot stronger than that to make it work well.  Yes I have been doing that better but long way to go. 

Can you imagine telling her that you will consider reconciling, but that it won't be the way it was before?  No I really can't see it being different if I went back.  She doesn't even realize that she is doing anything wrong or has any part.  She told our therapist one time that she married me because she knew she could control me.  (which she was right at that time).  It took 18 years of marriage to have the courage to do that consistently which escalated the fights to a point I had to leave the house.   

Can you imagine standing up to her and making it happen?  Only up to a point because of the extreme escalation.  Answering these questions realizing I am just in love with the fantasy of the 'pollyanna marriage' and not what it was really like.

Lucky Jim,

he question I have for you is: what kind of a message are you sending to the kids if you go back? 
  I am sending the message that it is ok to be a doormat.  They have a weak father.  I know the older kids saw this weakness when married (being a doormat) which is probably has contributed a lot the dismal relationship that want with me. 

Foolsgold,

 think TRUTH will be revealed.  I am cautiously optimistic that the custody eval will have this.  Yes... .good luck!

[Lucky Jim]

  I am sending the message that it is ok to be a doormat.  They have a weak father.  I know the older kids saw this weakness when married (being a doormat) which is probably has contributed a lot the dismal relationship that want with me. 

Right.  I like to think that I demonstrated to my kids that one need not remain a victim of abuse and that change is possible.  Whether this will sink in or not remains to be seen.  Regardless, I'm no longer a doormat, which feels good.

LuckyJim

[Grey Kitty]

Sounds like you moving back in with her by 12/31 would be a disaster. I hope you don't.

The ultimatum (reconcile or divorce by 12/31) is one that she's trying to force onto you. You do not have to accept it.

The option of staying separated without divorcing immediately does exist. Don't know the legal consequences of it; talk to your lawyer first!

If you refuse to reconcile/move back on her terms, she can push the divorce through, but that part is her choice, not yours.

What do you want? From what I'm reading, you sound most comfortable with that middle ground.

What about being separated but still married appeals to you? (in comparison to divorce, that is!)

[Lucky Jim]

Agree w/GK.  The 12/31 deadline is just a manipulation, in my view, in order to force your hand.  My BPDxW did this sort of thing all the time to get her way, and I was naive enough to fall for this arm twisting.  There's nothing wrong with remaining separated until you figure out a better plan.

LuckyJim

[Grey Kitty]

do you not have any visitation/ custody things agreed on or being negotiate?  I am still in the prelim order which was written poorly and not understood by both parties.  I did everything wrong that day of the prelim order.  I don't even have state minimum guidelines out of my ignorance and bad counsel (I got a new one that same day of the prelim order)  I get 2 kids every 1st and 3rd weekends and can see all kids on 2nd and 4th.  That has been in place for 10 months while waiting for the custody evaluation.  That is suppose to be finished on first week of december.    Court did just grant us the ability to use a Parenting Coordinator. 

I hope you have better counsel now.

I strongly suggest you post your legal situation on the Family Law/Custody board about that here. You are at risk of losing access to your children if you don't do this right. The senior folks there have been through it, and will point you in the right directions, even if it will be long and hard.

[Sluggo]

Thank you all,

I know the only right thing at this point is to finish the divorce.  It is sad to say but I have more a sense of control with the lawyer than I ever had with her in my marriage.  It is almost I wish if I had a lawyer for my whole marriage that would have solved a lot of problems.  that speaks of my lack of back bone than anything else. 

I miss the fantasy of being a father, husband in an intact family.  I know that it is not possible.

Did any of you feel like you were put back on a level playing field after the divorce being able to control what happens in your life, with kids, at home?     

[Lucky Jim]

Hey Sluggo, Let's just say that I didn't miss the drama!   

Yes, I would say that, as hard as it's been in the wake of my divorce, I accept the challenges because I'm back on my path again.  I can make choices that align with my heart and head again.

Some things, like my BPDxW's vindictive behavior, are beyond my control, but I don't have to listen to her tirades anymore!  I strive to let go of the things that I can't change.

It seems like maybe you are finding your path, too.

LuckyJim

[Lilyroze]

  Sluggo,

So sorry for the hurt, pain and drama you have been through. I am so glad you have this board. As hurtful and hard it is right now, this post of others helping you walk through it is so good. I have been where you are.

It was interesting seeing your thoughts on loss of status as husband etc and Mutt and others replies.

I felt a loss as well, hurt, embarrassment at first. I realized how hurt and emotionally abused etc I was that there was no partnership for me I was a caretaker. Not just in my mind. He was never really there without chaos or demands. When all was said and done I had paid off his debt when married, paid for house etc to give us a start, helped when he was sick, moved twice across country for him. To be told when I was sick he didn't want to deal with ( mind you these were headaches, migraines and possibly MS, which I healed with raw foods, healthy eating). So no ... . he never came home for work for me, took over duties here, was at hospital with me or FMLA. He had to deal with a few times I had headaches and to put already meals in oven. He even told me these things were my job, and bread baking, gardening which I enjoyed and did to help were my hobbies.

I realize what a joke, jerk and how selfish and drama filled he was. Yes no one is perfect, least of all me. All have good and bad days. There is two sides to every story, until you meet the BPD ones with drama, selfish attitudes and to some of them this is great to do to others, they usually never take responsibility and can really damage ones heart, soul, ego and life. There is no two sides there is BPD craziness, drama, and abuse and the non. Yes I know there is some mild BPD, some are great, some never do wrong, the non always deserves etc. My standard disclaimer for those new to this, or worse in the middle of unhealthy etc.

I do take responsibility for letting him do that, for trying so hard, trying to always fix, or take blame or being in a FOG. But now finally out, still get heart palpitations when he wants something or demands or blames me. But slowly came out of FOG, saw I was trained to take it from him and my Mom and it is now up to me to be free. I have always been a happy, optimistic person and probably why I could take most of it. But also the training went deep due to my Mom. Not that it is about me, just hope you see why you let the drama, and care-taking, blame happen and can heal, be free, happy and go on to a great life. I put up with it for over 15 years and now look back and realize how it got to that point. Looking within, healing, being my loving self still without his drama is wonderful.

I realized  when out of the FOG, and abuse, slowly standing up more and more, as he was good at always making me question myself, try harder, take the blame. I realized like Mutt, he no longer has a say in my home, my life, small until all said and done but no major. Like Jim I really  love the no drama zone now, no more man made chaos from him, disrespect, cruelty and his family dramas. He still blames me for no relationship with kids, but has not tried with them or me since all started.

I have still remained classy and helped him with his 6th used car this year ( to keep him working) and drama free, as crazy as that would sound. But he has done nothing for us, besides what is a  necessity. I never really had a partner, caretaker when I needed, friend, or responsible drama free male.

I hope things get better for you. Your kids see the truth eventually and you get fair custody and visitation. Come to the wonderful side, there are some now out of the FOG, unhealthy drama, hate, and have our egos, love and life back and in tact. Remember there is no path to happiness, happiness is the path. Find yours and go forward to freedom and what is best for you and your kids.

[Mutt]

Hi Sluggo,

It is sad to say but I have more a sense of control with the lawyer than I ever had with her in my marriage.

You pay your lawyer money  I had similar feelings, I tried so hard to keep the family intact when my ex wife telegraphed that she didn't care if we stayed together or not, I was avoidant, the queues where there but I ignored them. If I look back at it now, I was hoping that things would magically become better by itself.

I didn't know what I knew now, I was scared of being divorced and the family home broken, but I see it as two sides of the fence now, there is a whole side that I didn't know about, there's nothing different about people being on this side of the fence after divorce. If I think about it, half of the kids' in my kids classes have two homes.

We have two constellations, the kids have their family with mom and they have me, we're a family, me and my three kids, I'm proud of my family.  

As others have said, I didn't want to set the example to the kids that it's Ok to go back to mom after she cheated on dad. Obviously the kids are too young to know that, but I would feel bad if they found themselves in an abusive r/s in the future and I set that example for them, to go back to their partner after the way that they were treated.

Kids are always watching us, some things fall through the cracks, but I don't want them to go through what I experienced in life, maybe I don't have control of what is going to happen to them in the future but if I can help them, I try to set the example for them now. That's something that my ex wife has no control over, how I conduct myself with my kids.

[Sluggo]

Lucky Jim,

Some things, like my BPDxW's vindictive behavior, are beyond my control, but I don't have to listen to her tirades anymore!  I strive to let go of the things that I can't change.

It seems like maybe you are finding your path, too.

Yes it is nice not to have to listen to her tirades anymore.  Yes wanting to find the path.  Probably feeling things are still in the air until the final divorce and custody eval are done.  Custody eval should be done first week of December.

I still struggle with what my wife says about me to others.  We have 2 children with some significant special needs and another with very mild asthma.  This week there were emails sent out to the school nurses, doctor, nurse, and a person from our community.  STB exwife said I am not following the medical protocol of my children.   That is false.   She started telling these people in the email that I am divorcing her and that I am taking her to court for multiple con tempts (I am because even the limited order we have I don't receive) and then other distortions and exaggerations.  Regardless this should be even said.  I am cc on all these emails.  It is embarrassing, not true, etc.    I don't want them to drag into this by having an email war stating my case.  In an IEP meeting, after I asked a question, yesterday she stated that she is the one who knows everything about the kids care.  We were in a group of 9 other school officials, therapists.  Again, embarrassing, rude, not true, and very awkward.   

Lilyrose,

here is two sides to every story, until you meet the BPD ones with drama, selfish attitudes and to some of them this is great to do to others, they usually never take responsibility and can really damage ones heart, soul, ego and life. There is no two sides there is BPD craziness, drama, and abuse and the non. Yes I know there is some mild BPD, some are great, some never do wrong, the non always deserves etc. My standard disclaimer for those new to this, or worse in the middle of unhealthy etc.

. 

thank you for your transparency.  That is so true.  The two sides of the story thought is somewhat skewed.  However, my part was trying to control my wife by trying to keep her emotions regulated to keep things in the house regulated.  any real heatlthy person would have not taken what I did.  I never had any other relationship that even compares to the volitility of what would happen with her explosions.   

hope things get better for you. Your kids see the truth eventually and you get fair custody and visitation. Come to the wonderful side, there are some now out of the FOG, unhealthy drama, hate, and have our egos, love and life back and in tact. Remember there is no path to happiness, happiness is the path. Find yours and go forward to freedom and what is best for you and your kids.

  Thank you!

Mutt,

I had similar feelings, I tried so hard to keep the family intact when my ex wife telegraphed that she didn't care if we stayed together or not, I was avoidant, the queues where there but I ignored them. If I look back at it now, I was hoping that things would magically become better by itself.

Yes those are my faults.  Yes I kept thinking if I could just do one more thing she is asking for then I will release the pressure from our relationship (cutting more family or friends out of my life, adhering to stricter rules, etc).  It would release the pressure and my wife would be happy for a time and that would reinforce my behavior.  But then it would come again the explosions and further restrictive requests.  (I would always sing the song in my head by Pink Floyd  'I feel one of my turns coming on'  when I could fee the pressure building again in my wife). 


The kids see me as the one that I filed for the divorce and that is what my wife tells them.  I did file which is true.  The part kids hear is that I wanted to get away from the kids (+wife).  I wanted to get away from them.   

[Mutt]

Hi Sluggo,

The kids see me as the one that I filed for the divorce and that is what my wife tells them.  I did file which is true.

You had to make a difficult decision, some choices that we face in life can be unpopular and difficult and we may get back lash from it but in the long run isn't it the best choice for everyone? You have the right to be happy, if you're happy, that will trickle down to the kids and they'll be happier. I'm sorry to hear that your ex is telling them things that are not appropriate, but you can't control her, take the high road and don't participate in divorce poison and I'm sure you're not doing that. Keep your chin up, the truth has a way of coming out on it's own.

[Lucky Jim]

I still struggle with what my wife says about me to others.

Hey Sluggo, This is a common problem.  Here are some strategies that might help: First, people are not dumb and some friends will pick up on your W's exaggerations as false and will take them with a grain of salt.  So that's one thing in your favor.  Second, concerning teachers, health care professionals, and the like, I've found it helpful to meet with them privately and let them know my concerns.  You're not the first parent to go through a divorce and chances are they have experience with divorcing couples.  Lastly, as Mutt notes, you can't control your W and getting painted black is something many of us have experienced in the aftermath of a b/u with a pwBPD.  In other words, it's a predictable reaction.  Agree w/Mutt: try to take the high road and stay above the fray, as much as you can.

LuckyJim