Dealing with BPD Father and Brother

[anonanon]

Hi, this is my first post to this message board. I'm an adult man. I've been told my father and brother both fit into the BPD spectrum. My mother is more on the narcissistic side. I've tried hard to accept my family for who they are and to find a peaceful and happy medium where I can have some contact with them without getting hurt. The problem is that there doesn't seem to be a way to do this. Long story short - every family gathering ends with my brother threatening or cursing me out, or both. My father and mother both engage in their own forms of abusive behavior. Having tried very hard to work with each of them and getting nowhere for years and years, I've come to the conclusion that they're not going to change. Any time we make progress, they break agreements, then project, blame, etc. We are currently in a period of no contact, something that is part of their standard cycle of abuse. Ordinarily, I will reinitiate contact, we will have a heart to heart, followed by promises on how we will ensure such a thing will never happen again, followed by a period of relative peace, then interrupted by some kind of terrible incident. After the incident, there is fallout that involves betrayals of previous agreements, and, ultimately, a period of silent treatment. This time, I'm inclined to follow their lead and simply not try to fix it. The problem I have with this is that I love them very much despite all this. I don't know how to be ok in my life without them, as much as they drive me crazy. Does anyone out there have any recommendations on how to move on from a family like this without feeling awful for doing so?   

[Kwamina]

Hi anonanon and welcome to our online community

I've been told my father and brother both fit into the BPD spectrum. My mother is more on the narcissistic side.

It can be very difficult dealing with multiple disordered family-members. Who told you that your father and brother fit the BPD spectrum?

Having tried very hard to work with each of them and getting nowhere for years and years, I've come to the conclusion that they're not going to change.

This is one of the hardest things for many of our members to accept, that no matter what we do we cannot make our BPD family-members change if they themselves do not want to or are unable to.

We cannot control the behavior of our family-members but what we can do is control our own behavior and how we respond to them. By changing that we will change the dynamics of our relationships with them, regardless of whether they change or not.

This time, I'm inclined to follow their lead and simply not try to fix it. The problem I have with this is that I love them very much despite all this. I don't know how to be ok in my life without them, as much as they drive me crazy. Does anyone out there have any recommendations on how to move on from a family like this without feeling awful for doing so?    

Dealing with abuse and dysfunction isn't pleasant at all so I totally understand why you would want to distance yourself from that. Setting and enforcing/defending boundaries is crucial when dealing with BPD family-members.

No matter how you move forward, I encourage you to explore the various communication techniques described on this site, in particular S.E.T. and D.E.A.R.M.A.N.:

Express your truth - S.E.T.: Support, Empathy, Truth

Assert yourself - D.E.A.R.M.A.N.: Describe, Express, Assert, Reinforce, Stay Mindful, Appear Confident and Negotiate

These structured ways of communicating can help us minimize the likelihood of further conflict, while maximizing the likelihood of getting through to the other person. They also help us stay more calm ourselves.

Do you feel like your family-members have ever shown any awareness concerning their dysfunctional behavior? Have they ever in any way acknowledged that their behavior might be inappropriate?

Take care

The Board Parrot

[anonanon]

Hi Kwamina, thanks very much for your reply.  Mental health professionals familiar with the situation said they believe these two are borderline.  Unfortunately, the circumstances are such that we don't see each other frequently.  We no longer have any familiar get togethers, no annual events, nothing.  I've tried to get us all in a room together with little luck.  There's nothing I'm aware of that should get in the way of us all being together other than their problems.  So, even if I take a different approach with them, I'm not sure how it would change the situation.  I'm open though.  If there's something I can do differently that might improve things, I will try it.

At present, it's been over a year since my brother has spoken with me.  He won't allow me to see his kids (for no apparent reason).  My father has become increasingly abusive.  His last two communications with me were extremely harsh.  Over the years, my father and I have discussed improving our family situation and we've both agreed to take certain steps, but he has repeatedly gone back on these agreements and simply refused to acknowledge we'd even agreed to anything in the first place.  With few exceptions, neither of them have shown awareness that their behavior leads to the seemingly constant problems in our family.  The only times that either of them seemed even slightly aware of the cycle or pattern of conflict in our family have been after long talks, generally in the wake of incidents of totally unacceptable behavior on their parts (such as them threatening or breaking off communication for an extended period for no apparent reason).  In those situations, I have gone to them and tried to work with then to improve our relationships.  This has been an extremely frustrating process.  I've had to explain simple concepts such as the idea that in a relationship people need to respect each others' feelings and compromise to get along.  In response to this, I've been told that people "do what they need to do".  As someone who's been repeatedly threatened and cursed out at family gatherings, I don't accept that anyone "needs to" threaten or curse out a loved one or that relatives should walk away from one another for months or years at a time simply because they feel like it.  Sorry if I am rambling a bit here, but I'm very frustrated with this situation and really looking for a way to find resolution that works for myself, with or without them.  I appreciate insights from anyone here who's experienced anything similar and who has found a way forward. 

[Woolspinner2000]

Hi Anonanon! 

Let me join Kwamina in welcoming you to our online family. I'm glad that you've reached out to us as it sounds like you are hurting from the distance that is currently happening in your family. Anyone in your situation would be hurting, and you are not alone for so many of us struggle with how to deal with the BPD in our lives.

Mental health professionals familiar with the situation said they believe these two are borderline.

It sounds like you might be in some T? Am I correct in my guess? How did you feel when you discovered that they may be BPD? When I first found out that my mom may be an uBPD, I was finally able to put my finger on that 'feeling' that something wasn't right, but I was afraid to trust myself that it could be true. I asked my sister and my D2 to read the clinical definition and see what they thought. When they agreed, I felt so validated but at the same time quite lost. There was so much ahead of me to learn, and I wondered what did it all mean?

I hear your heart's desire to make things work, to help your family to function, to stay connected. Yet you are nearing the end of your capabilities. The carrot dangles out there in front of you, your heart and mind saying, "If only I tried harder, if there is something else I can do, I will do it to make it work."

If there's something I can do differently that might improve things, I will try it.

I'd like to share a startling moment with you that I recently reflected on. My dad died a little over a year ago. Last July when I visited him before he got so sick, he said this to me: "Maybe if I had tried harder with your mom I could've made it work." By that point in time, he and my mom had been divorced for 33 years, each of them remarrying someone else. As I reflected on this recently, I realized that even after all those years of being not married to her, he still was not able to let go, thinking if he did more, it would've made a difference in their relationship. Perhaps, had he been able to make her happy in the one area of standing up to defend her to his parents, would that have fixed everything for all time for them? I wish I could say that it would've, but it was clear that even if one area was fixed, another would crop up. The reason is because my uBPDm was who she was down into her inner being. My dad couldn't change that. Only my mom could change who she was.

You are dealing with the same thing. I understand, really I do, because I still have nightmares on occasion, thinking that if I tried harder, I could've earned my mom's love and care instead of her anger and rage. But I would ask you a question, is love and care something that can be earned or is it something that is given, free of any strings attached?

We keep trying because we love them so very much. You love them, I see it. It is okay to not try to fix it anymore. Be free of the obligation. Work on healing yourself, and as time goes on, you will gain the understanding you need to know if and when reaching out is the healthy thing to do. Many other members here have gone LC or NC and from all I've read, while it is especially hard at first, it is doable and may be the healthiest thing for you. You and your T will be able to navigate that when it is time.

 
Wools

[livednlearned]

Hi Anonanon,

I have a very similar situation my family -- my T is the one who first pointed out BPD behaviors in both my brother and father. Our family gatherings are very similar to what you describe, followed by periods of no contact. I've always been the appeaser, fixer, rescuer, willing to apologize or plead or look the other way to keep the family intact. I paid a very high price for taking that role, and looking back, it accomplished very little if anything, and any highs I might feel from reuniting the family were canceled out by the loss of self-respect and shame I felt for letting myself be subject to their dysfunction and abuse.

It has been 5 years since I've seen my father and brother, in part because they live 3000 miles away, and also in part because I decided to not appease. I used the time to heal and recover and skill up, so to speak. With my therapist's help, I've been approaching things like a master class , trying to understand how I can be in their lives without subjecting myself to the abuse.

I'm planning for a family event like a military operation, where (together with T), we talk about ways to spend time with many contingencies for exiting the situation if it begins to escalate. We discuss: How to avoid sensitive topics, how to phrase things, where to have dinner, how long we spend together, where I will stay, who will be with me (T is very insistent on having a "witness" to help me process the exchange), how the event will wind down, and how to avoid making promises out of a sense of duty (a weakness for me). Very helpful, too, was looking at the Karpmann drama triangle to understand how my family creates conflict, and how to make sure I stay out of that triangle.

If the first event goes well, I plan to regroup and confer with friends and loved ones about whether it's a good idea to try for a next one, and so forth. I've had to learn specific phrases so that my boundaries aren't overrun, and how to buy time for myself if I feel myself being triggered. If I can do this at the first event, maybe I can do it a second time 

My brother and father will never, ever take responsibility for their actions. They don't apologize, and yet, I no longer feel the need for an apology or even a recognition from them that things will change. For a time I wished I could say, Hey if things go off the rails, I'm going to just step away and we can pick things up later when emotions have cooled a bit.

But just hinting at a boundary would cause a ruckus, especially coming from me, so I've made peace with the fact that not talking about my boundaries is a form of protecting myself in and of itself.

Learning to turn the no contact periods into an opportunity for healing and gaining strength, plus studying the way our interactions go and putting safeguards and skills in place, has been so helpful. After a lifetime feeling at a loss, I finally feel like it's possible to have an arm's length relationship with them.

[anonanon]

Wools, LnL,
Thank you both very much for your messages.  It's comforting to hear about your experiences and the tools you've used to overcome and mitigate.  I have a general question for you both.  My family essentially goes into periods of no contact after these episodes.  At times, I get the impression that my father and brother are using tactics one might use in dealing with a BPD or NPD individual on me.  Of course, they skip the whole trying to have a productive conversation part.  They also ignore how they create the problems.  But, they both have a lot of self-help vocabulary and tend to use self-help concepts as a "weapon."  Essentially, they'll create a situation, such as cursing or threatening, then without seeking resolution, or looking at how the situation came about in the first place, when the family is still reeling from the mess they've created, they'll begin to talk about how people can't control one another or how people "do what they need to do."  This form of pseudo-acceptance advocated by someone who has just hurt those closest to him is impossible to understand.  I've tried to understand it, but it's just frustrating.  When someone uses the language of recovery as a form of abuse, it's tough to listen to.  These guys essentially use recovery lingo as an excuse or means to abuse.  In any case, when the family goes into a period of not talking there are no get-togethers, no conversations, nothing until I appease and beg everyone to look at what has happened simply to bring us back to the table and to the next inevitable blow up.  So, I don't know how to take a different approach.  If others were trying to get us together for a holiday meal or anything, then I could work with a professional to come up with strategies to deal with this event.  But, no one's even trying to get us together.  The people in my family who create all this drama just go into hiding after doing this stuff.  It's only when I get us all together that we do.  It honestly feels like it's all at my expense.  I know they're certainly hurting too, because this can't be fun for them.  But, I don't think they're seeing any of it with anything like a clear head.  Frankly, I fear the worst - that if I don't try to get us all in the same place, even though it takes so much out of me, that we won't anymore.  The family has just gone further and further down hill over the years though.  And, I don't see anyone else even trying at all. 

[livednlearned]

Using self-help or recovery language in the way they use it would be so confusing.

Is reaching out to get together -- even after a stretch of abuse followed by no contact -- exactly the same as appeasement? I'm sort of asking myself, tho I lean toward saying no.

What has happened in the past when you don't reach out to appease or fix?

I am very surprised how unwilling to break the silence my dad/brother are, though not sure why I'm surprised. They do the same to each other. Except, usually with them, suddenly it's over and they pick up where they left off with no conversation, just dive back in like no time has passed.

It is going to be the same for me, and I am now willing to accept that that's the way it is. If I want them in my life, I radically accept that they do not have even the most basic skills to handle strong emotions, no matter the cause.

It's sad, and it's also a relief to let go of wanting them to be any different.

[anonanon]

When this happens, I reach out to my father.  We have a nice conversation where we catch up on whatever has happened since the last time we spoke.  During that conversation or early on, I initiate a conversation where we eventually make a commitment to deal with any family conflict so that it does not spin out of control and lead to another period of not talking.  During the last "make up" period, my father agreed to have some family events such as a barbecue and going to see a game with me anencephaly my brother, among other things.  Generally, we agreed we would interact not as a group of loosely-affiliated strangers but as a family.  One of the major problems has been that there is no support in the family such that when my brother has an outburst, there are no consequences.  That is, he can curse and threaten, but life goes on as though nothing has happened in his relationship with my father and mother.  They don't say a word to him about this behavior.  They don't even express their own feelings about watching their son threaten their other son.  Neither do they express their feelings about him preventing me from seeing his children.  And, although they both see the children regularly, theydo not step in to ensure the children and I have visits.  Somehow during this particular period of not talking, my brother has decided with no precipitating event to stop talking to me and to prevent me from seeing his kids.  I have no idea why he isn't talking to me or why he's done this with his kids.  All I know is that I tried to make plans with him and he said he didn't have time and then stopped answering.  That was nearly a year ago.  I live far from home and had planned a visit home well in advance of the visit.  I have them all over a month to work out when we'd see each other and no one would solidify times.  I showed up at home with one planned visit with my mother, which she ended up not making due to a planning conflict with some charity work she does.  My father attempted to spend time with me very last minute once, even though I was staying 50 miles from him during this visit and I'd said ahead f time that I wanted to plan all times together.  So, he ignored the boundary and just tried to control my time.  Since that visit, he's barely said a word to me.  When I was last home, he left me the meanest letter I've ever read.  He said how self-centered I've become and just went after my character.  It's hard to believe given that a few years ago I changed my life to take care of him when he was very sick.  Ultimately, this current deadlock is the worst I've seen.  I could reach out to them, but I don't know whT I say.  During this period, they've made very clear justnhow one sided they want our relationships to be and just how unwilling they are to do much as consider the other side of things.  Also, in the past we've agreed to meet on mutual terms and it's always turned out that any such agreements were nothing more than lip service designed solely to bring me back in line so that the relationship is back in the status quo they are comfortable with.  Yet, I'm not happy with not talking to them despite all this.  I keep hoping that one day my father and brother will call and just want to get together to spend normal quality time together once in a while without any of this awful and pointless conflict and drama. 

[anonanon]

With the holidays here, I miss my family immensely.  It's been over a year since we've all seen one another.  It's been years since we've had a holiday or get together that doesn't involve my brother's outbursts. Unfortunately, the family will not come together to put being together in a loving way first.  I don't know what if anything will repair things.  As the one who sees that there are PD problems in the family, I have the advantage of not living with the illusions.  But, at the same time, I see how foolish this situation is.  I know we can't change people, but this is tragic and I wish they'd come around.

[Kwamina]

Hi again anonanon,

The holidays are a difficult time for a lot of the members here. I myself also find it hard, one of the reasons is that the contrast between my family and other ('normal' families becomes even clearer. The holiday images we see around us are just that though: images. Those images however do not necessarily reflect real life and what really goes on within families. You could say the images represent the loving fantasy family of origin many of us unfortunately never had.

I know we can't change people, but this is tragic and I wish they'd come around.

Perhaps they will still come around some day. For now the best thing you can do is probably focus on taking good care of yourself and being very mindful of your own well-being. We have some resources that might help you cope as you deal with these intense emotions you are experiencing:

Grieving Our Losses

Radical Acceptance For Family Members

It's tough but I hope sharing what you go through on these boards and studying the resources will make it a bit easier for you.