I would like to try and rebuild a marriage where I have filed for divorce

[earlgrey]

Nice reply Meili - your # 29, you bring the human aspect into focus... .and I guess all we are able to do is our best.

I have basically said I'm quitting (the marriage that is) and W. really has NO understanding of why. It is just yet another example of all she finds bad in me!

I am sure she is having a hard time with the huge change in her life this represents. Should these return ideas materialise she will struggle with the concept of me coming back - she may reject the idea. But what i do not want to do (and this is hard to evaluate) is to go back in with the best of intentions only to find I do not posess the necessary skills to keep things together. That is what I feel based on what I have experienced so far in the r/s. It was really hard going for me.

But I am thinking, if I do venture back, it will be with a different perspective, different parameters. It will not be to find a fair equal loving balanced adult r/s. The r/s I thought I was going to get but didn't.

I am thinking I will be less inclined to judge and perhaps better able to rise above what are petty squabbles and perhaps be able to keep the family unit together. And as you have alluded to before there can be growth and improvement. That is encouraging.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[drained1996]

and W. really has NO understanding of why. It is just yet another example of all she finds bad in me!

A quality example of the illness's defense mechanisms at work... .

It will not be to find a fair equal loving balanced adult r/s. The r/s I thought I was going to get but didn't.

And you would be correct.  It will probably be more along the lines of you raising two children at once... .only one of them is in an adult body.  Good news is, if you can maintain the understanding you have in your quote... .you may actually have the opportunity to see them both grow!  

It's refreshing to see that you have perspective on your situation... .you care... .and you want to do what is ultimately best for you.  

 

[earlgrey]

Thanks drained... .you seem to think this task is do-able. I'm sure not an easy one, or one that I actually wanted. But it will be my choice.

I like to think (ha ha) I am pretty open and gracious in defeat, but there is one thing i am still struggling with and Meili and I have swapped ideas already... .and that is the concept of expectations.

If i go back in to caretake, expecting not to be taken care of myself, I am actually acknowledging what my w. said to me years ago... .'if you don't expect anything you won't be disappointed'. That hurts and stings and almost makes me say eff you all. Why?

Expectations are what? the likelihood of a certain outcome. I can manage most of that... .the beer in a bar example from before. I don't need XXX brand, beer is fine. I expected beer i got 'beer'. The world works in a good enough way for me. Expectations met, life is good, got any nuts?

I went into marriage, and yes I expected to get the marriage version of 'beer'. What does that look like in one's partner? Well for me it was emotional availability, being friendly, being able to listen. I had never even thought these things didn't exist, or that they would be unavailable, certainly from a spouse who appeared to be marrying for honest reasons. They seem to me to be pretty basic r/s stuff. And as things played out I got none of them.

Now I find it hard to believe this is OK. And to be told you are wasting your time looking for them seems like some kind of emotional scam. Thats why it hurts.

I understand it is more than OK in the world of BPD, but getting my marriage certificate signed, no-one had told me about the world of BPD.

I was marrying a sweet woman I thought!

So managed expectations in the real world I think is what adds to our overall enjoyment of life, stuff being where you expect it to be, but getting scammed, financially emotionally or any other way is brutal and destructive and something I have trouble dealing with.

I think it will also being an integral part of making any of this rebuilding work. If I am still feeling bitter from being emotionally scammed (which I think is pretty close to the mark) I am going to find it tough to be open and forgiving and tolerant. Needs ome work here.

[formflier]

EarlGrey,

I'm more of a "stayer".  I've also clarified in my mind that I can't "count" on my wife for emotional support.

In truth, there are times when she does a great job.  The critical piece for me is to understand that I can't count on it.

When it is available... .I enjoy it for what it's worth.  When it's not, I use my support network to support my emotional needs.  I have a PhD level T and several close friends.  There is a men's group at church that I value immensely, although I have never breathed one word to them about BPD.  I've made a conscious choice that there are some areas of my life that I will not discuss it or "deal with" BPD. 

Other areas of my life it is front and center, because many of my choices are influenced by BPDish behavior. 

In the end... .they are my choices.

I think there should be a big focus by you to sort out a plan to take care of your emotional and relational side without counting on your pwBPD

If you can get to the place where you "take the good" and use boundaries to protect from the "bad" then I think you have a possibility of a successful future.

If your wife "fails you" and things fall apart... .that's not a good plan for the future.

FF

[Meili]

It may help to not think of your history with your wife as not being "emotionally scammed." The good times were good. They were real. You felt them.

We all do the best we can with the tools that we have available. As drained said, it helps to think of pwBPD as a child sometimes. Their emotional development was arrested at some point. As a result, they are doing the best that they can with the tools available to them.

Also, as FF said, learning to find emotional support within yourself and your support group does wonders. Like with FF's wife, when yours is able, she'll probably provide you with support to the best of her ability.

We all know how frustrating this can be and the emotions that come with learning that things are not as they seemed. To echo drained's message, it is possible to improve things.

[drained1996]

FF and Meili have given you some great insight.  On expectations I'll be brief and to the point.

Expecting more than you have gotten from her will lead to being let down.  Expect nothing.  As FF says take what you get expect nothing.

This endeavor would be about YOU taking charge of YOUR life moving along with a new attitude and new approach. 
I think the overall goal would be for you to control you more (reactions, communication, healthy boundary enforcement techniques)... .and let your new boundaries help control her/the situation in general.  The more you practice, the better you become.  The better you become, the easier it gets.  The easier it gets... .seems to reason the better it would get. 

[formflier]

We have presented some great "theory".

What does that look like in practice?

The good:  My wife returns from a trip a few days ago.  She is a grouch.  I empathized a bit... .being in a van with a bunch of people... .for 8 hours... .is challenging. 

She seemed determined to be a grouch... .so I found other things to do around the house.  Later that evening... she worked out... .took a long bath... .and sent signals she was interested in "connecting" with me.  We flirted... .had wonderful sex... .long bath together... .snuggled.  Probably best night's sleep I have had in a while.  I was totally not expecting that  it was a nice thing to do... .when the opportunity presented itself.

Fast forward couple days:  I had a couple of phone calls with staff at a doctors office that were whacky.  Answers kept changing... .time was running short.  I was trying to help my daughter get ready for overseas trip... .vaccinations and all that.

Anyway... .I was emotionally drained and looking forward to my wife getting home.  I let her know I would like to tell her about my day... .she clarified that she didn't care... .sent some blasts my way about matters that were on her mind. 

I left the room.  Did other things.  When my daughter came home from that doctors office we had long conversation about how whacky that office is run.  She was appreciative of my efforts... .  My emotional needs got met.

I did what I needed/wanted to do.

So did my wife.

I made a choice to take my ears other places when she was saying things that I didn't like.

That's totally not the life I "want" or "wanted"... .but it is the life that I have chosen.  For now... I'm good with it.  Perhaps later I will make a different choice.

FF

[Grey Kitty]

You went in with expectations that your wife didn't live up to. That's pretty clear. And happened to a lot of us. You didn't know about BPD or any of that at the time.

You were started to get a divorce, to escape the verbal abuse.

What does that look like in one's partner? Well for me it was emotional availability, being friendly, being able to listen. I had never even thought these things didn't exist, or that they would be unavailable, certainly from a spouse who appeared to be marrying for honest reasons. They seem to me to be pretty basic r/s stuff. And as things played out I got none of them.

Now what? You do know who your wife is. You know what being married to her has been like. I'd suggest you frame it as choices based on what you now know, instead of expectations. Start with the things you KNOW to be true.

• Your wife isn't a supportive, validating spouse that you can share your feelings with. She's not capable of doing this. She might surprise you, but even if she does, the chances of it being consistently the case are around zilch.
• Your wife is capable of being verbally abusive. You need to be capable of enforcing boundaries to protect yourself from this. (This is an ongoing process, and these forums have your back in helping you with it!)
• D7 is your child together, right? You will have to come to some sort of (presumably shared) custody of her, which will keep you in contact with your wife for another decade whether you want it or not.

If you decide to keep trying with your wife to provide a better environment for your daughter, including sacrificing some of the things you want in a marriage, you won't be the first. And if you try a bit longer, and realize you just can't do it, you won't be the first to do that either.

It sounds like you are living with her now, and the two of you are mostly avoiding each other... .is that correct?

What else would you need to make it worth staying?