Do all people with BPD cheat because they need approval?

[Before you can make things better, you have to stop making them worse...]

Split from: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=303043.0


Actually I intended to ask.  :)o all people with BPD cheat because they need approval of thesmelves from as many people as they can?

[Shedd]

Split from: https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=303043.0


Actually I intended to ask.  :)o all people with BPD cheat because they need approval of thesmelves from as many people as they can?

[Pretty Woman]

Hi There,
  From my experience, and this is MY experience... .

When my ex would say, "My ex wanted to kiss me but I told her I was in love with you and she respected that".

It happened.

I was working with a therapist in the middle of our tenth break up and she said, You know, when she says that, she's pretty much telling you "it happened".

Funny thing is when I told her this (my ex), when I told her she had kissed her ex when she came to town, she actually admitted I was right and thought I was psychic. I mean she was amazed I knew this.
This also caused her to be paranoid I was following her. I wasn't, just common sense advice from my shrinky-dink.

Just like her stories of her ex raping her and her having to file a RO on her. It didn't happen and I believed for the first few months of our relationship she was victimized by this person who actually turned out to be quite lovely, in fact a renowned prison psychologist that has written books, a advocate for women's rights and the LGBT community.
Hardly a seedy predator.

Yes, I met her "rapist" months into the relationship when "the whole story changed" and all of a sudden in her eyes this person was a "amazing friend", heck maybe even "the one that got away".

They lie. Some lie better than others but usually, when they are telling you something didn't happen.

It did.

If you think your ex cheated on you in Chicago she was probably with mine.
Ok, not funny but you will find BPD unfortunately runs rampant in our community. The on-off, push pull relationships, physical/emotional abuse.

With BPD I have learned one thing. Take it at face value. If your ex cheated on you once, rest assured she is a cheater at heart and will continue to cheat. Mine did some very seedy things and left me several times for exes until she found someone more gullible than me to manipulate. It's been two years this coming May, dead silence from her.
And I am fine with that. More than fine.

Do yourself a favor and try to detach. It won't get better being in this situation. Whether she is sexually confused or not... .cheating is cheating and you, my dear do not deserve that!

PW
 

[lovenature]

They cheat because it is all about maintaining an attachment for them; when you get too close devaluation begins, they fear you will abandon them, so they go back to an ex. (previous attachment) or find a new attachment.

[caughtnreleased]

Actually I intended to ask.  :)o all people with BPD cheat because they need approval of thesmelves from as many people as they can?

To me it' s also a boundaries issue. Their biggest fear is rejection... .so if someone is chasing them, and expressing a desire to be with them, I don't think they can turn that down. It's almost like a child who can't say no to an adult who is abusing them. They want to be loved so if they behave in a certain way that the other approves of maybe they think they can get that love. I think in a way they also can't put down their own boundaries. How many times has a someone on this board had someone with BPD break up with them in the way an adult does: "I'm sorry, but we are growing apart, our lives are taking different directions, we've tried to work things out but I don't think things are going to get better. I think it's best if we go our separate way."? Zero. Why? Because this requires setting boundaries. Cheating is just an example of very poor boundaries. I'm not even sure they always want to be sleeping around with all these people. It might be like doing a line of cocaine... .but then, when it's over, they feel terrible. My ex cheated and I know he did because he was close to tears telling me people just wanted to use him for sex. To me it was remorse that he had screwed up. Then when he was with replacement he pretty much told me we could have an affair together... .Most healthy people who are in relationships set boundaries with people whom they are not in a relationship with, which is: no sex with anyone outside of the relationship. pwBPD can't set boundaries, and if they are attractive and flirty, people will want to have sex with them. Of course there's the other side of it too: getting back at you if they feel betrayed (which the disorder ensures they will feel), seeking validation elsewhere, etc. hmmm. it really all comes down to setting and enforcing boundaries.

[Rayban]

Actually I intended to ask.  :)o all people with BPD cheat because they need approval of thesmelves from as many people as they can?

Lack of boundries, impulsiveness, sense of entitlement,  out of sight out of mind might lead some BPD's to cheat.  Mostly it's a question of them needing others to validate them. It's a drug they can't get enough of.


I remember when I foolishly and easily accepted going for coffee with her. We'd hadn't spoken in weeks and on that Sunday, I ceded and decided to re-engage.  We ended spending the day together and I slept with her that night.  In the morning, she began crying saying, "she can't do this anymore ". I knew that. I wasn't able to enforce my own boundries.  I knew that I couldn't be in a relationship with this person, but I was willing to play with fire.  Sex was a major motivator and she knew this.  I believe she knows that she is willing to give up her body to anyone who validates her. She knows it's wrong but she can't stop herself.

[lovenature]

It is all about maintaining an attachment, yes they love the attention and validation they get from their "orbiters", but they literally need to have someone to mirror in order to feel whole and exist; get too close and you are pushed away, then they go to the next available attachment.

[TyroneWiggums]

When my ex would say, "My ex wanted to kiss me but I told her I was in love with you and she respected that".

It happened.

I was working with a therapist in the middle of our tenth break up and she said, You know, when she says that, she's pretty much telling you "it happened".

During our relationship, my ex went to visit old friends for the weekend and a guy she had been romantically involved with previously was going to be there.

":)on't worry, he's staying in a different part of the city."
But he didn't.
"Nothing happened."
But it did.

The story changed maybe half a dozen times, progressing from "he left my friend's place and that was that" to "he kissed me but I stopped him" to "we fooled around" to a few more revelations to finally "we slept together I'm the worst person in the world!"

What scares me more about your post, and I've seen this as a common theme on the site: she'd go out without me and tell me the next day about all the men who bought her drinks and how she stayed out carousing till the sun came up or the guy she danced with all night but ultimately left behind, blah blah blah.  I guess it doesn't matter now, but in the "push" fazes of our relationship I would hear stories about all these men who wanted her. 

Wow my boundaries were terrible.  I can tell you this:  being in a committed relationship on my end, there's no way I would have spent the evening entertaining a bunch of strange women; why I would stand for it from her is pretty pitiful.

[cbm419]

It is all about maintaining an attachment, yes they love the attention and validation they get from their "orbiters", but they literally need to have someone to mirror in order to feel whole and exist; get too close and you are pushed away, then they go to the next available attachment.

this so spot on, and like some others have said... .if they hint anything "He and I talked but we never hooked up."  means "we hooked up."

My ex would always admit to the cheat but apply all these amazing boundaries/limits to their behavior.  "we just kissed and cuddled, i was lonely."  "we maybe did oral, but I'd never have full on sex with anyone but you, EVER."

the stories would shift and change.  until he would ultimately admit it went all the way and was so much more than he could tell me right after it happened.  Then he would cry and sulk into a corner and expect me to feel bad for him because of how his actions "hurt him just as much" as they hurt me.  So many times I was expected to overlook any pain I was experiencing to "empathize" with his.  If i did not, the rage would surface and I would be called abusive, completely not understanding, and these behaviors were ALL. MY. FAULT.  A few times he'd talk about a cheating incident and casually recount how it was full on sex, when he had never admitted that in previous accounts.  When i reacted with shock/horror/anger he would SWEAR on his life that he had "already told me" how far that incident had gone and I had forgotten.  like what the heck? how could i have forgotten such a thing.  the rage would come right out in these situations, full with gaslighting, and soon i would be made the offender- I forgot what he swore he'd already told me, and was making a big deal now because i want to HURT him and make him hate himself.  Reality: he just lost track of his lies and spilled the beans, the following reaction was him playing CYA.

It took me a while to fully grasp that these people have no boundaries when it comes to these compulsions- if they did... .they wouldnt be compulsions.   I do think my ex felt geniune remorse for his ways, but he was incapable of true reflection, could not integrate this remorse into his overall self like most people do when they mess up, "learn the hard way," and most importantly: CHANGE.  These actions and the validation they provide are like drugs to an addict.  And any addict will tell you, they may be able to ignore the substance for a day or week here, maybe a year or oh so long, but at the end of it all, that drug was their master and as long as it was, they would relapse.

Im still in a phase of shock when I try to digest the emotional acrobatics he was putting us both thru.  Truly olympic in proportion.  Just the whole "what i did to you hurts me just as much, if not more" than it hurt [me] is so completely absurd.  but he would cry and wail, dissociate or cut his way into making me believe it was all true. 

Its when i told my sensible, mentally-well friends these stories that i started to realize how thick the wool being pulled over my eyes was.  They thought I was CRAZY by the end of it all, got sick of hearing about it, and I ended up losing a lot of them.  This worked very well to his advantage, because with those friends out of the way, and all my time now free, he was able to sink his teeth into me even deeper, creating the mother of all codepedent, toxic messes.   

[Shedd]

 I ended up losing a lot of them.  This worked very well to his advantage, because with those friends out of the way, and all my time now free, he was able to sink his teeth into me even deeper, creating the mother of all codepedent, toxic messes.
  

OH my GOD! This was happening to me during the relationship.  I lost two of my good friends because of her.  I almost lost another one, but it shows true that she is a good friend because she absolutely hates my ex.  She sensed something wrong with her right from the beginning.  

But ultimately, she was pushing me away from all of my friends!  My friends even got so sick of me talking about her they started pushing away from me.  I know I got annoying talking about it.  No one seemed to understand and it drove me crazy.  

At this point I am learning the friends that have left weren't really true friends and it's probably best at this point if they're not in my life.  I would do anything for my friends even in their darkest days, but if they cannot do the same for me it's better off that way.  

And that if you ever need to vent ya know, feel free to message me.

[cbm419]

OH my GOD! This was happening to me during the relationship.  I lost two of my good friends because of her.  I almost lost another one, but it shows true that she is a good friend because she absolutely hates my ex.  She sensed something wrong with her right from the beginning. 

But ultimately, she was pushing me away from all of my friends!  My friends even got so sick of me talking about her they started pushing away from me.  I know I got annoying talking about it.  No one seemed to understand and it drove me crazy. 

At this point I am learning the friends that have left weren't really true friends and it's probably best at this point if they're not in my life.  I would do anything for my friends even in their darkest days, but if they cannot do the same for me it's better off that way. 

And that if you ever need to vent ya know, feel free to message me.

I do think its a shame i lost some of them.  they were healthy people exerting healthy boundaries... .I would drown them in sad texts about my BPD, and drunkenly bemoan my life on what were supposed to be "fun nights out."  When I wasnt complaining or venting, I had my phone out constantly texting my BPD, who seemed to, without fail, need my attention exactly when i was supposed to be offering it to others.  With this, my friends-all good people, some i had known a decade or more - did what any sane person would do.  Pull away from me and move on.  I was a black hole of my own misery, and never available or present when they needed and deserved my support (esp with all they gave to me).

I realize in retrospect that i began to mimic my BPDs unhealthy relationship behaviors.  Thats the scariest thing about these relationships and their impact.  I dont blame a single one of my friends.  I was told I should break up with and run for my life from my BPD... .over and over.  They were shocked I would accept the cheating.  Shocked I would see him the day after his physical abuse sent me to a hospital with broken bones across one side of my face. One of my best friends took me to surgery the day i had titanium plates put into my face to reconstruct this damage. when i woke from anasthesia, she said "this guy is nothing but trouble," and tearfully begged me to cut him out of my life.  We had been so close for 15 years.  I saw her two weeks later and she asked about how my breakup was going.  I somehow laughed it off and told her everything was great.  To her, I was so far gone from the person she respected and loved, she just said "hey, do what ever will truly make you happy." but didnt call me again after that. Today, we are back in contact and she's explained how it was all too painful and brutal for her to watch.

To these friends, I became the exact kind of dysfunctional, attention sucking, unteachable and negative force my BPD was to me.  I was projecting all of my garbage onto their side of the street.  They did what any healthy person would and stopped seeing me.

I will say, in the last 6 months, as me and the BPD have detached, most all of these friends have cautiously returned to my life, albeit in a diminished state. But I have to know better than to bring up my ex around them.  They fume. They have no patience.  They are hurt that they lost me, if temporarily, to this vulture of a relationship.  They are sad that they lost respect for one of their closests friends.  But all of their reactions were warranted, and not because "they werent really my friend to begin with."  The problem is i got so stuck in my own stuff I stopped being the friend they deserved all along.  Their actions were just, but still painful.

I suggest you keep an open mind and approach some of those old friends with an authentic and complete amends, as such that I've outlined.  Then move on and dont mention the stupid BPD relationship again- save it for a therapist... .we all need one after this BS and they will get paid to listen.  You'll be surprised how receptive these friends are now that they see you've left the FOG and are getting back to your awesome self.

[wheretostart0]

I had a 3 month honeymoon that felt like 3 years with my ex. After that she tried to replace me, literally threw the replacement in front of me. Month later she was a different person and nothing ever went back. Everything became really strained, she withdrew from sex and obviously was seeing someone else. I actually got her to admit it at the end. But even in the beginning when she considered us dating I got the feeling a couple times her behavior seemed odd like she had been with another man. she was sabotaging everything little by little and expected me not to react to any of it? Who knows.

[Shedd]

It just seems to me like every BPD cheats because they need self satisfaction.  They want the instant gratification they can't seem to find in a relaitonship, and they're always living on the edge to take their mind off whatever is haunting them.  


I will never trust another person that claims to have BPD ever again.  

I think we put ourselves in prison being with one when we know it's dangerous to be with someone that is unhealthy like that.  

They make the perfect trap as well diving into our vulnerabilities and using them against us even when we didn't think we were vulnerable in that way.  I think we try to prove so much of ourselves that weren't like that that's why we lose so much of ourselves with them

No one deserves to be cheated on, and I think everyone on this site is super fantastic to try to stick it out with someone that has BPD.  Ya'll are good people.  

[statsattack]

This thread is all to real. What broke off our friendship because the advice a 24 year old female took from a 19 year old with a 3 year old kid.

I had to get a therapist because of all the friends I pushed away

[nylonsquid]

No one deserves to be cheated on, and I think everyone on this site is super fantastic to try to stick it out with someone that has BPD.  Ya'll are good people.  

Well said and thanks burnerin  

Seems strange to me at this point to think my exgfBPD would not cheat any more. I unfortunately still live with her and our interaction is, I'd say, mostly pleasant. But now I find myself laughing at her attempts to hide relations. I just laugh and say "its okay! Do whatever you want, you don't have to lie any more... Geez!" She then looks confused. I kind of get a kick out of it to be honest. She can't cause any drama because she's a cheater so this is what I expect and accept it. Its a person in pain that's always looking for validation and short term healing and I've drawn my own boundary where I'm not involved with her in an emotional partnership.

[statsattack]

Want to get this straight when they cheat it's an apology of don't be mad at us and make up some reason why they are a victim for them betraying us

[Duped 1]

I don't think mine ever cheated. She prided herself on being faithful and her number one goal was to b a wife. She couldn't have moved on any faster once we broke up though even though we had been together the night before

[Rayban]

@nylonsquid

I think BPDs that cheat get an extra thrill from not being caught in the action or having the ability to pull one over their partner. I guess you could call it a cheap thrill. Take that away along with the drama that comes with it, and they're left with. ... just having cheated.

@statsattack

Catch them in the act and put their back against the wall, and they will turn things around to make it be your fault. If that doesn't work, fake crocodile tears and a victim story are sure to follow.

After that the blame should be on those who still choose to stay or go back. Other nons make the right decision and walk. Accepting this will only have them pushing the envelope further.

[Herodias]

I agree with allot of what you all are saying... .I just want to add though, that mine tested boundaries... .He pushed a little bit more each time. I guess this was to push me away. I never left until it got so bad I had no choice and then he still told me I could take him back? I swear sometimes he wanted out and I wouldn't give up on him, so then he didn't respect me any more. The whole thing is strange... .From sexting, to blow jobs, to sex with someone else, to sex with someone else in our bed, to getting someone else pregnant. I actually told him if he got someone pregnant we were done for good... .so he did. Then he asked me if I wouldn't take him back, would I want to be the babies Aunt! I guess he wanted me in his life in some form. I said that would be too weird, but he should ask the girlfriend about that one,   I hope he is happy with his choice... .as we all know though, he is probably not. Awful.

[statsattack]

I didn't go back because I refused to go back until she got help and 50/50. But wanted to see if her cry for help was her cry she cheated

[hurting300]

Cheating is not a symptom of BPD. People cheat because they either need validation or because they like sex with different people. My ex never cheated. I have cheated on someone and I'm not BPD. I was just a selfish jerk when I was young.

[schwing]

Not all people with BPD (pwBPD) cheat.  Just like not all pwBPD gamble, have impulsive spending, become addicts, self-injure or express suicidal ideation. In my observation, what links all these behaviors together is their use in order to avoid their imagined (or real) abandonment.

I see all these behaviors as means to avoid their disordered perception that they will be abandoned.  If they spend your money to the point that you are in debt and do not have the means of moving away -- then you can't "abandon" them.  If they almost kill themselves or destroy themselves with drugs and/or alcohol, then you would have to be heartless to "abandon" them in this miserable condition.

And if they cheat.  Well, then they also manage to avoid "abandonment" because then they would have abandoned you first.  And after they have abandoned you, and their disordered feeling that they will be abandoned subsides... .then they will consider being with you again.

So I don't think they are needing approval. They don't do these things in order to get something from us that they are not getting.  They might try to rationalize their behavior in way that puts the blame on us. But I think, deep down, they have issues that they can barely face -- yet if they do not face them, these disordered feelings will always get in the way of the kind of relationship I believe they seek.

I hope this makes sense.

Best wishes,

Schwing

[seeperplexed]

Just like her stories of her ex raping her and her having to file a RO on her. It didn't happen and I believed for the first few months of our relationship she was victimized by this person who actually turned out to be quite lovely, in fact a renowned prison psychologist that has written books, a advocate for women's rights and the LGBT community.
Hardly a seedy predator.

The similarities... .oh my God. It hurts.

[Curiously1]

No they don't all cheat. How do you define cheating though? Having sex behind your back and or can it be emotional cheating too?They generally look for a replacement while being with you though. Mine certainly did. We took a break. She gave someone a try, she wasn't happy and then came back after a month. Then we broke up again but she secured another one before leavingme and that eventually she became her new girlfriend. They normally want to secure another attachment before they make their exit.

**to add not all pwBPD are exact same. Mine was truly monogamous but would still seek others behind my back if things got rocky between us as a "just in case we dont work out". She possibly uses them for validation, approval when she talks ___ about me etc. Like for pity purposes. or to make me jealous She wouldnt go out of her way to hop into another one unless things werent going well with us and the other one was promising for her. However I knew was in a kind of FWB situation with another pwBPD. Her issue was that she had such a feared of intimacy  she did not want to get too close and serious with anyone. She continues just to have casual sex with random people and that is as far as she wants to go. She wants to date yet her crazy comes out when you get too close. I think for her, having a lot of admirers makes her feel desirable, sexy, wanted by others.

[ateu]

I've been cheated both emotionally and physically. And I do think it's because he just wants the validation, the attention and the love. As soon as I fail in some point, he'll be getting it somewhere else. And he would think it's perfectly justified.

I read the whole conversation with him and "a female friend" he knew in real life. he was sometimes was sleeping at her place even, and then I found out he had an "online relationship" he was entertaining. When I confronted it about it, did he feel ashamed? No... .of course not. It was my fault, because I had been depressed, so he felt "alone", and "not so loved", thus he "needed it". He said to me it was really selfish of me to not let him act like this when I was so cold... .No worries about my depression there. None, zero, zip. His way to apologize? Well... .he did say "you were not meant to read that". No kidding... .

And as he always repeats when I say he is saying same things of love to others as he did to me: "Well, it doesn't mean the same to everybody!". When I ask him if he explains this to the other girls, that apparently "I am in love with you", doesn't really mean that to him when he speaks to her. He calls me selfish. I won't let him even speak to other girls.

Yeah... .right.

And also when I confronted him of sleeping with a girl. Let's call her Julia. His response: "which of the Julias?"

I rest my case.

And yes, besides the validation they feel, I suppose it's also a thrill. In my experience they just keep looking for new highs. If it was with me it should be having sex in public places, outside, when having guests at home... .you name it. Cheating is in the same category for them, I believe. Just with a different person.