Help and advice required re break up - possibly final?

[Cliffton]

Hi all, feeling really awful at the minute and despite using AI quite a lot (fed up of  doing my friends with the same old topic) I thought it might be useful to seek advice from those who know.

Been with my partner just over 6 years and had breaks every year for a month or so when she’d press the self destruct button and leave. During those 6 years she’s been through a divorce and she relocated to live with me, initially with her daughter who was then 17 who now lives with her boyfriend some 200 miles away. I still have my son from my previous marriage who lives with us 50% of the time which she doesn’t like - even though she gets on well with my son.

She had been managing to live quite well with a nice little part time job, 3 or 4 nice holidays a year and travelling to see and stay with her daughter every couple of months or so.

She’d been driving me mad for us to have rings as a sign of our commitment so in December we exchanged rings and I got her a 2 carat diamond solitaire and I had a platinum wedding ring.

3 months later, this march, she left me after a bad splitting episode, went to live  with her daughter, got herself a new job up there and is now, I believe buying a house.

In the past, I have managed to get her to see someone who she saw for 6 weeks only and said she had cptsd not bpd - she hates the bpd label.

She was continuing to send me texts saying she loves me, misses me, etc and then within an hour saying she’s not coming back and blaming her departure, as is always the case, on me and my selfish behaviour, etc, etc….

She then said she couldn’t come back whilst I still had my son 50% of the time - he’s 16 now, but would like us to still see each other every few weeks and have holidays etc. this she said was ‘just for now’ and we can see how we go. I said I didn’t want that as I wanted my partner full time and haven’t got the time to waste being apart - we’re both in our late 50’s.

 I then found out from a instagram post she’d gone on holiday with her daughter and boyfriend and his auntie - the holiday I should have been on.

I’d asked her for us to still go on this holiday and she said she couldn’t and was staying at home to look after her daughter’s pets.

She’d messaged me from the holiday (not knowing I knew where she was) saying she missed me with a crying face and a kiss. I replied sarcastically saying ahhh, that is understandable given where you are and past memories - hope the pets are ok on their own. We’d been to the hotel last year.

I’ve since been virtually no contact, she’s texted me a few times  asking about our cats (classic charming) and also a more lengthy text going from nice to bad within the same text - even within the same sentence. I didn’t reply.

She also lied about the holiday saying she was pressured into it, didn’t want to go and only booked it with a weeks notice. I sent a screenshot of the holiday countdown pic the auntie had put on Facebook showing it was booked three weeks prior and an emoji of her post jumping in the air with excitement.

I then get accused of spying - no apology or acknowledgment of the lie of course. I didn’t respond…..

Roll forward another week and I get another cat text….

My preferred ‘pig flying past the window’ outcome would be for her to return home and go back to therapy but I don’t think this will happen.

I’m maintaining a silence ( as advised by AI and Coach Ken of you tube relationship therapist fame) but what do you guys think of my predicament and how to handle it moving forwards.

I love her deeply and when she’s good she’s the best - that’s why I’m hanging on in there but I really don’t want a long distance relationship….

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Cliffton]

I meant ‘classic charming’ not charming

[Cliffton]

Predictive text keeps changing the word I’m typing to charming but hopefully you know what I mean … charm with ing at the end.

[once removed]

i know what you meant 

try this. it will help explain, not just terminology, but whats happening: https://tinyurl.com/mr3n7hcx

i get the sense that your sources may be confusing things; too much emphasis on BPD and pathology. silence is not an effective way to "get someone back", although giving space, not over pursuing, not chasing, can certainly help make things better.

i think that it would really help to get a better understanding of what is behind the breakups - whats breaking your relationship down.

During those 6 years she’s been through a divorce

was the divorce playing out during your relationship? how soon into it?

whats her relationship like to the person she has divorced?

3 months later, this march, she left me after a bad splitting episode

what happened? what was it about?

She was continuing to send me texts saying she loves me, misses me, etc and then within an hour saying she’s not coming back and blaming her departure, as is always the case, on me and my selfish behaviour, etc, etc….

what does she blame you for, specifically? in her words.

She then said she couldn’t come back whilst I still had my son 50% of the time

this seems like a sticking point.

and also a more lengthy text going from nice to bad within the same text - even within the same sentence. I didn’t reply.

details. whats she saying?

I then get accused of spying - no apology or acknowledgment of the lie of course. I didn’t respond…..

this is stonewalling. it isnt helping.

what do you guys think of my predicament and how to handle it moving forwards.

we need a better sense of whats going on, whats breaking the relationship down. it sounds like she isnt "done", but i dont think silence or stonewalling is helping you to reconnect.

[Cliffton]

She’d been separated from her husband for 2 years but hadn’t filed for divorce - this was carried out during her time with me and I handled everything acting as her solicitor. He’s remarried and they don’t have contact. She left in march after we’d got back from a good holiday abroad - this seems a pattern as she has left before right after a holiday. She started going on about how things had got to change - specifically the rota of my childcare and I was saying it wasn’t going to change. I’ve changed the rota around every way possible but she still hates it. She says that she’s given up everything to relocate to be with me whilst I’ve kept everything.

She blames me for my selfish ways and being over controlling - I’m high functioning autism and so like routine etc. this was some of her last text…

“I’ve wanted to text and call you so much.

I hope you’re doing ok…I think of our happy times together every day even though there were so many bad times.

Yes I went away I didn’t want too and yet again I have a habit of pleasing other people. I booked it a week before I went, believe it or believe it not it’s totally insignificant now.

I have wanted to text you and ring you every day but nothing comes from you therefore in your last text that  you sent it’s your way or no way.

Tbh you showed your true colours yet again. I was prepared to come to you that weekend and I asked you to meet me half way - yet again your reply was selfish! Again your way or no way.

I’m not texting you to be horrible I think of you always, I just wish you realised your bad way’s beforehand because we could still be together.

I fell in love with you and gave you all of me & more.

I’m here,  I’m still alive, it’s you who’s keeping us apart now because you want it all your own way.

What I’m doing now is not easy for me but I had to let go because you didn’t see the wrong doings of your selfish way’s unfortunately.

I don’t expect a reply from you but I WILL becoming for my cat soon.

If you want your ring,  I will send it to you - I don’t want mine I bought it for you.

I’m still alive love I’m not dead and you said you loved me like no other woman yet you choose to have nothing to do with me!

I have text you so many times and deleted it and thought  just f it!! Anyway …..

I’ve now sent it!”

[Cliffton]

And then a couple of days later I get a text asking if I’ve still got her cat (we have two, a brother and sister - one each) as she will be coming for it shortly.

I posted a thumbs up emoji and her last text back was “what does that mean” sent on Wednesday.

I haven’t responded.

[Cliffton]

She said she’d booked the holiday a week before departure “believe it or believe it not”

I responded “believe it not” along with the photoshop of the holiday countdown of three weeks 2 days etc…

She then responded at 3am to that text…

“You shouldn’t spy on people love.

Like I’ve said lots of times it should have never come to this should it. There’s not only you who finds out things. I’ve found out lots about you too.

Nonetheless I’m not being nasty.  If you want to know anything just ask me ok x”

She’s found out nothing about me - there’s nothing to find

[Cliffton]

The issue about meeting her halfway is also nonsense. She said she wanted to come to see me for the weekend and I said great. She then said she wanted to leave her car at a hotel half way so would I meet her half way and then take her back to mine. I explained this wasn’t half way as I would have had to go there, pick her up, bring her back, take her back and then drive back home again. So she said she couldn’t come anyway as she had to work.

And that’s me being selfish

[once removed]

from a distance, it sounds like you both have major relationship complaints that youre both unwilling or unable to give ground on, and the relationship has persisted in spite of that, but deteriorated along the way, and is now at a stand off.

does that sound right?

you want her to come back. shes not happy/comfortable with the arrangement.

youre catching her in fibs, and otherwise not replying to her, or giving her a thumbs up.

things are still deteriorating.

Cliffton, it sounds like if this relationship is to be salvaged, somethings got to give. is there any room for that, or are you both dug in? what do you think?

[Cliffton]

I haven’t any complaints other than the issues that only manifest when she’s triggered - I’m as happy as I’ve ever been been - no, sorry - THE  happiest I’ve ever been with a woman all my life. I’m obviously not happy with the verbal abuse and disrespect when she’s on one and the thing that destroys me is obviously the splitting and the leaving me.

I’ve just - after what you said earlier about stonewalling not being ideal if a reconnection is the desired outcome- sent her a video of her cat saying she’s fine and ready for when she’s ready to have he.

She texted back saying thank you, she hopes I’m ok, she thinks of me constantly and still loves me - with a kiss and a sad emoji face.

How do I best respond without getting back feeling like I’m a fish on the end of a line and she’s just playing with me.

[once removed]

How do I best respond without getting back feeling like I’m a fish on the end of a line and she’s just playing with me.

is it possible its a chicken or the egg thing?

that you feel that way, because of the way you see her? because of the way the two of you are interacting? because trust and communication have deteriorated, so things feel adversarial and high stakes?

that can be true for all of us - that we feel manipulated, but the person we are in conflict with isnt necessarily trying to manipulate us. thats what a power struggle looks like.

i think this person clearly loves you, but isnt prepared to return to the relationship, at least not as it was. and those may big bigger problems. it sounds like your sons presence (one example) is a sticking point, and, well, thats not exactly something you can just cede. there are big obstacles that are in the way of reconnecting. the question is whether they are resolvable. thats an open question. you want to reunite, you want her to come back, but not "at any cost".

so to come back to your question:

How do I best respond without getting back feeling like I’m a fish on the end of a line and she’s just playing with me.

there isnt a response that will necessarily move her back, or move her to a particular response, or that will resolve the bigger picture of conflict between the two of you.

there is a response that can be nurturing. that can open the door for more.

what do you really want to say to her?

[Cliffton]

I sent her a text and a video of her cat and she's responded warmly expressing her love for me and she misses me etc.

She's now informed me that she's getting the keys to her new house (170 miles away from me) in 3 weeks and so will be able to have the cat then and also saying its now up to me ... I have choices whether she's in my life or not.

[once removed]

I have choices whether she's in my life or not.

that may be, though its not entirely "up to you" - she has choices too, of course. and some of what shes asking may not be possible, let alone reasonable. but before we determine that...

what are her "conditions"? what is she communicating that, if these problems were solved, she would return?

[Cliffton]

She’s not asking for any conditions or doing anything at all to facilitate a return or even asking about it - her actions are totally in opposition to her words.

She’s “saying she misses me, loves me, is deeply hurt, is very sad, etc”  yet has moved 170 miles away, must have immediately purchased the property as it takes at the very least, 12 weeks here to get to exchanging contracts, has got a new job and has been away on a holiday abroad. And is still proceeding with the house purchase? Doesn’t make sense.

[once removed]

have you tried just straight up asking her:

1. what are the things she needs to reconcile
2. how she sees it working if she has moved 170 miles away?

if not, i would. and i wouldnt immediately, directly engage, or at least not argue with it or state my piece. id just signal that im listening and taking it on board, and then id assess whatever it is that she says.

[Cliffton]

She said earlier in a text she exchanging contacts for the house on Friday. It’s all very stressful but it’s a nice little house and will be over when she gets her hands on it.

I asked - you say it’s stressful but it’s a nice little house. What are your main feelings about it all now that it’s becoming very real with the exchange of contracts imminent.

She came back with…

Of course it’s stressful buying a house it’s not like buying a loaf of bread.

So I was trying to ask her to take time to reflect and explore her thoughts and feelings given the contradiction with her words and actions and for her to assess whether or not she should stall on the purchase given the negative impact on any reconciliation.

And she comes back with the bread comment side stepping and deflecting?

[Cliffton]

She hasn’t stressed any conditions that would enable her to come back - I have already agreed to what she used to complain about … me still working full time when I was supposed to drop to 3 days and eating late!

As to how she see it working it’s long weekends and holidays etc but the pragmatic difficulties are never addressed - she hates travelling, who would look after the cats, her communication skills are haphazard - unreliable so this would cause me stress if I’m calling and she won’t answer, etc..

The details of any major decision she tends to make aren’t explored - it’s me who has to break them down to her but obviously I’m then negative and controlling. Like applying for full time jobs miles away when she hates works, wants part time and would never do the travelling, etc, etc

[once removed]

So I was trying to ask her to take time to reflect and explore her thoughts and feelings given the contradiction with her words and actions and for her to assess whether or not she should stall on the purchase given the negative impact on any reconciliation.

why beat around the bush? why not outright ask her?

"how do you see this move affecting any potential reconciliation?"

She hasn’t stressed any conditions that would enable her to come back

has she recently, outright expressed a desire to get back together? or is she just expressing that she misses you and loves you?

[Cliffton]

Just expressing misses and loves me and that it’s my choice whether I continue to see her when she’s in her new home - she wants us to do long weekends and holidays etc. so far I’ve said I can’t see that working either logistically or emotionally.

[Cliffton]

We met at a hotel in April a month after she left for us to discuss our future. I wanted her to come home and give us another go - she said she wanted to but was ‘scared’ it would go back to how it was. We gave each other a week to mull it over - she said she wanted to do long distance - I said I understood and respected her decision but I didn’t want that. We then effectively went no contact until she started messaging she missed me but I found out it was from the holiday that we should have been on together….

I think you know the rest.

[once removed]

i think youre right: shes put her eggs in the basket of moving away.

neither one of you see this working on the others terms.

I wanted her to come home and give us another go - she said she wanted to but was ‘scared’ it would go back to how it was.

she said she wanted to do long distance - I said I understood and respected her decision but I didn’t want that.

youre at a stalemate. shes unable (now) and unwilling to jump back in the frying pan.

realistically, how do you resolve that? you either bend, or you dont.

if nobody is willing to give, there is no reconciliation.

We then effectively went no contact until she started messaging she missed me

in simple terms, you have two choices before you.

1. you can try the relationship on her terms. see what that could lead to.

2. accept that youve both been in a relationship that is "too good to leave, too bad to stay", or just all around "hard to leave". neither one of you are emotionally done, but neither one of you are willing, up to this point, to bend, which is what is ultimately required. in that light, you can consider her messaging you that she missed you either a moment of weakness, or an earnest and final plea for the relationship on her terms. if youre dead set against trying the long distance thing, it will require one of you to do the emotionally hard thing and commit to walking away for the sake of both of you.

[Cliffton]

We’re having a chat tonight over the telephone to see where we’re at and, for me, to find out what her ‘ideal’ scenario is, and then …..

Whether or not it’s anywhere near enough what I want.

We’ll see…..