does she dislike me or is her guard up? - please help

[stevemcduck]

so I split up with my gf and she moved about 5 hour drive away from me.

we text everyday and she says she loves me often and wants to work towards coming back to me but does not want to commit to a timeframe. when I mention meeting up or discussing when she wants to come back, she says I'm pressuring her and withdraws from the conversation. however if I say il give her space and not talk for a while she gets upset and says she wants the contact.

She has made it clear we are still boyfriend and girlfriend but we are on a break from living together.

she no longer calls me cute pet names. she makes me wait a long time for text replies (they were instant during the relationship) she just seems more robotic. she no longer asks how I am doing or what I have been up to but just talks about herself.

she has have a surgery coming up next week which she is nervous about so maybe she is preoccupied with thoughts of that. she also seems to have become a workaholic.

my question is. do you think she no longer likes me and is just leading me on, or do you think she sees me a different way temporally and is just trying to like me again, if so how can I get her to lower her guard and help her to along the path to getting back together. any advice would be helpful the whole situation is agonising for me.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

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[EyesUp]

Hello Steve,

I read your recent posts and I think I get the gist of the situation.

I'd encourage you to take a step back and try to look at the situation as objectively as possible.  Re-read your post here...  She's moved away.  She's not as responsive as she's been in the past.  Responses are not personal, interested in you - you said robotic.  She keeps the focus on herself.  Is that a fair summary of the situation?

You're clearly not comfortable with this - which is understandable. And you want to do something about it - that's why you're asking for advice here.

I'll offer this:  The situation you describe fits the description of "breadcrumbing" and can occur with "monkey branching" - breadcrumbing is when one partner wants to keep the other as an available option, so they leave a trail of indications that there's still intent or at least interest... monkey branching is where one partner is reaching for a new relationship, but doesn't fully let go of the current relationship (or "branch") until the new one is firmly in grasp...   

We often hear about these patterns when BPD and/or NPD are in the mix.

I understand you want her back.  And given that pwB/NPD often cycle in and out of relationships, it's possible you'll get your shot... 

You said you split with her.  Why was that?  And at some point you changed your mind and now you want her back.  Why is that?

You said you split with her, then she moved away, now she says that you're still bf-gf.  If you split with her and she moved away, how is it possible you're still bf-gf?  Please fill us in. 

To answer your question about "lowering her guard" and getting back together...  if this was a "normal" / healthy relationship, I would be supportive during the surgery and recovery and I would not push to affirm relationship status or put any focus on myself during this time. Instead, I'd watch carefully how she responds to support, freely given - with nothing expected in return.

If practical for you, and helpful to her, you might even ask if there's anything you can do - anything you can bring - and listen carefully to the response. Does she express appreciation, or is the immediate response more like avoidance?  That should tell you a lot.

Listen to your gut as you go through this over the next week or two.

Good luck.

[stevemcduck]

Thankyou so much for your response

yes your summery is accurate, I would say her texts have become a little warmer over the last few days.

I understand about the monkey branching and bread crumbing, that is a possibility. If I ever found out for sure she had been with other guys I would no longer want her back as that would be a hard boundary for me.

We text back and forth about 6-10 times per day but when we were in a long distance relationship in the beginning it was about 50 -100 per day.  I must say however she works now and didn't at the beginning but still it doesn't seem right. she shuts down if I talk about the relationship. setting a date to see each other and there is nothing flirtatious at all (extreme opposite of the beginning).

She started a business in which I funded but it failed. it was a clothing business and I found out she was selling used underwear and pictures to make it look like the business was doing well. she was very ashamed of the business not working so I think she did this to make it look like it was working. she pre emtively split with me. we got back together for 2 weeks but I was a bit traumatised as I thought the pics I found were for another guy and not the sale of the underwear and I was a little paranoid which let to the next split.

last weekend I went to visit her, we had a night out and a day out, which was nice but I said I was sad in the house we lived in together and was considering moving, I said I was selling it as she wasn't my girlfriend anymore, she said no we are still together just taking a break from living together. I want to work towards me coming back.she started crying and wanted to go home as she said she feels embarrassed and on the way to the taxi she said "im sorry I just go through these cycles".

I saw her the next day, when I dropped her off at home, I said goodbye to her and the dog and I said to the dog, I hope I see you again, she said 'of course you will" then I went for just a hug and she went for a kiss, then we hugged and she held me very tightly and said she will miss me. you can understand why I am getting such mixed signals.

I have helped her in a few ways and she did show appreciation.

im just struggling a lot and im unsure where I stand but I don't dare ask her as she shuts down

[Pook075]

I think EyesUp is dead-on accurate; she loves you, yet she's also keeping you are arm's length as she pursues other opportunities.  Maybe that doesn't mean another relationship, but it's highly unfair to you regardless and it doesn't allow you to heal.

The part about selling panties with photos included makes me extremely worried and I'm not sure I buy that story.  Maybe it's true, maybe not.  More likely, it's complicated and there's a hint of truth in there built around a larger deception.

When I split with my BPD ex, she said so many things that I wanted to understand.  But over time I've come to realize that she was disordered and saying what she felt in that moment only.  Often that didn't reflect her true feelings since her emotions were changing by the minute. 

It's like buying an ice cream cone with Rocky Road thinking that you love the chocolate, hate the marshmallow, and are really torn if you like the nuts or not.  It's really complicated to a BPD as they try to work through all their emotions and keep looping around in circles (which she told you she's doing).

I wish you luck, regardless what you decide to do.  And I hope you'll take this time apart to focus more on your own needs, your own mental health.  You've been through a lot and need some time to heal, to find the real you once again.  So be a little selfish with your free time, get back out there and pursue some of your favorite hobbies with friends or whatever you enjoy doing.  That's the type of stuff that allows you to heal.

For communication, you have no choice but to go at her pace.  Don't push too hard since you already know that she'll flee.  But at the same time, it's okay to share your feelings for her and validate what she's going through.  This is a process similar to a marathon...don't try to turn it into a sprint or you'll burn out.  That's why the focus must be on yourself during this time.

[stevemcduck]

Thanks for the response pook

maybe it is part of a larger deception, she did offer to prove it by showing me the transactions.

she has a surgery next week that she is really worried about, she has body dysmorphia and wants to get her breasts re shaped. im wondering if after that is done she might go back to normal once the stress of that is over. or on the other hand she is monkey branching and wants to do that first for the new guy. I guess one way or another I will soon find out.

my plan is to ask her to go on a vacation with me or come and visit me for a week once she is healed and see what she says. she has already indicated she would like that but it could easily be a lie. if she does great I will take it from there. if not I think its time to walk away. as much as I love her I can tolerate lies, deception and possible cheating in my life.

my mental health is shot to smithereens right now, im struggling with everyday life and as much as it will worsen the pain, walking away may be hard but the best option in the long run. im just so scared as I hate being alone and any future relationship will feel hollow after this.

[losthope1234]

Hi, reading the replies from pook and EyesUP, I wanted to add one or two more things:

The part about selling panties with photos included makes me extremely worried and I'm not sure I buy that story.  Maybe it's true, maybe not.  More likely, it's complicated and there's a hint of truth in there built around a larger deception.

Even i had doubts when i read this in your previous replies, but didn't say anything. I remember, long back, some 15yrs ago, we were just out of high school. I caught him smoking weed (probably his 1st time). You won't believe the kind of stories he made around it to prove me wrong and he was very convincing too. Drugs were a total no-no for me, totally against what i can accept. Later on, I still found that he really did it. I am not saying this is true for you too, but just be careful.

Secondly,

there is nothing flirtatious at all (extreme opposite of the beginning).

I have seen you mention this, about she being hypersexual before, but not anymore. In some cases, for BPD, this change is seen, maybe a part of their lack of self identity. Jerold J Kreisman had mentioned this in his book if i can remember, mostly about sexual identity. My husband was "not-so-sexual" in the beginning (he was bf back then) then all of a sudden hypersexual, which made me very very confused as to why this sudden change, then again now he is totally 'non-sexual', which is so bothering.

I wish you luck, regardless what you decide to do.  And I hope you'll take this time apart to focus more on your own needs, your own mental health.  You've been through a lot and need some time to heal, to find the real you once again.  So be a little selfish with your free time, get back out there and pursue some of your favorite hobbies with friends or whatever you enjoy doing.  That's the type of stuff that allows you to heal.

 I cant really agree with this more. This is very very important. I regret not doing this which is why,  over time, i have become so very depressed. I am trying my best now, its really difficult though.

[stevemcduck]

thank you for everything guys. im so depressed I think it might be best to put and end to this toxic relationship and deal with the pain of losing her. I know deep down even if I get her back this kind of thing will repeat.

[stevemcduck]

Do you guys think that if I just sent a text saying

 "I can't do this anymore and I want to walk away now. take care"

she would respond by coming back strong or do you think it would push her away forever?

[stevemcduck]

I don't know if ive done the right thing or not but I can't take the pain any more, I just sent her this -


I understand you are going through a lot and I want to be there for you. And I will be. I want to better understand what you are going through so I can help, I love you more than anything. Ive noticed that or conversations no longer have any depth, no romance, no real connection. You tell me you love me and want to work towards being together but I get the feeling you don’t mean this. Every time I mention anything about seeing each other or anything about the direction of our relationship, you close down and get distant. You never call me nice names like you used to. I don’t feel valued. I know I’m am a rare person and I have a lot to give, I don’t deserve to feel that way. If you can find it in yourself to help me understand what you are thinking to help me see your perspective that would help. I will listen without criticism or judgement. Or if we could set some kind of timeline or roadmap to getting where we need to be that would be helpful for me. I think my needs are not being considered in our relationship and I need to seriously think about the effect it is having on me. I don’t blame you for any of this, you can’t help the way you feel xx

[losthope1234]

Hii.. i think it's a bold step, must have been hard for you but i think you've taken a very positive stand here. You have used 'I' statements, which is the correct way.. sometimes it's best to be direct in what you feel and express it..

regarding your previous msg regarding breaking up, i would not take any hurried decision. I understand from your posts that you are emotionally down at this point, which is natural I guess given your situation. I would wait till her post op recovery. If she avoids being upfront even after that then i would think of coming to a firm decision. In between, try this kind of msgs(like the one you sent) time to time to keep her reminded (so that she sticks to her words) . Also, in the meantime, i would work a lot on my mental health if i were you, that's what I too did back when i was going thru my situation in 2015. Because, i figured that in a positive scenario, if he decided to resume the relationship too, i needed to be very firm and assertive otherwise I won't be able to place or stick to any boundaries. In my case, i couldn't get any proper therapist here in my country(but the SSRIs helped a great deal) but since you said you have found a good one, work with him to improve your mental health and work on figuring out boundaries. Hang in there!

[stevemcduck]

thanks lost hope. I am sooooo scared now, I'm worried incase she sees it as abandonment and tells me it's over. I'm worried incase I made a mistake now and that I won't get the chance to wait until after the surgery.

I hope you are doing ok yourself

[losthope1234]

You didn't make any mistake by expressing your needs and feelings. What she would do is not in ur hand but atleast you are trying your best. I hope everything will be alright. Update us if you can. All the best

[stevemcduck]

she sent a long message back explaining how she feels, I won't publish the whole thing.

key takeaways

- I still love you but I feel my mental health is in decline

- im trying not to think of anything and just throw myself into work

- I want to be with you but I equally feel the desire to be alone, I can't explain it its a confusing mindset for me to be in

- I still want to visit after my surgery and go on holiday and work towards being together

- I feel I can't be like I was before, I just don't know where that is gone and I don't understand why

- you are a special person and you do deserve to feel valued and im so sad I can't do that right now, im sorry I don't know what to do

[stevemcduck]

also

- I feel bad to make you feel this way but somehow I just don't have it im me to be who I was before, I so confused as to why

[losthope1234]

This seems like a very well put msg. My guy never said anything like this back then. So I feel your girl might really be struggling with her mental health. Maybe she isn't really "breadcrumbing" or "monkey branching", like my guy did back then. Maybe she really need some time alone to figure out what's going on regarding her mental health. BDW, you said your therapist suggested that she might have BPD, did you also feel some of the traits matching? which are the most prominent ones? Also, have you tried asking her what she plans to do regarding her mental health, since she doesn't want therapy?

[stevemcduck]

She shows every one of the 9 traits in some way. the fear of abandonment and the dissociation ones are most prominent.

would you be ok if I send you the whole message privately. I don't want to publish it publicly out of respect to her

[losthope1234]

Okay sure, you can if you wish to..

[stevemcduck]

thank you, I have done so, im still conflicted on staying when she has openly said she can't value me

[losthope1234]

I'd give her some time regarding this. She said she cant value you right now, that maybe because  she is dealing with a lot and is not being able to be as loving and caring in her communications as before. That may not imply that this is permanent. Also, when a BPD is living apart, they tend to detach. This is possibility their way of dealing with the abandonment fears. They are again back to "normal" when they move in. I would see how she behaves when she has again moved back in and whether or not you are able to bond. Only after this, would I take some major decision regarding the fate of the relationship.

[stevemcduck]

thank you for the advice, however there is no plan for her to move in permanently at the moment just to visit for 1 week and then take a 1 week vacation

[EyesUp]

@OP,

I agree that putting it on the line was a bold move.

Stepping back, you mentioned that she's having some type of breast augmentation. I hesitate to speculate, but it's easy to understand that there are many reasons to do this - some are reconstructive, others are purely cosmetic. I can't but wonder what her motivation is (no need to respond / go into detail here) because if her mental health isn't great and the procedure is cosmetic... well, you probably see where I'm going with this...  Will she be new and improved after the procedure, and will that give her whatever it is that she feels that she's missing?

Forgive me if this is way off base.

In any case, you put your feelings and wants and needs on the line - and it appears that she provided a relatively open and sincere response. A bit more open-ended than you probably wanted, so things remain a bit up in the air, on her terms, on her undefined schedule - although the procedure is a fairly clear milestone / check point.

How are you feeling about all this?

[stevemcduck]

she suffers with body dysmorphia and does not like the shape and wants the to be different but not larger.

yes I feel I took a gamble.

how do I feel. I love her tremendously and I do want to wait but I find it hard to be openly told she can not value me and for me to to still hang on. however im hoping once the surgery is over she will be less stress and more time together can only give me more introspective on how she is going to be. im feeling mixed emotions of, shame for hanging in on my own self respect, fear that she will never be able to see me the way she did again and relief that she has finally been able to open up to me. also confusion about the whole situation

[stevemcduck]

I am, slightly nervous that she is keeping me hanging on until after the surgery then with her new found confidence she will start to want to meet other guys. she is insanely beautiful now anyway so in all fairness she could have done that anyway but it is a concern. but she does say otherwise so I have no doubt but to give the benefit of the doubt

[stevemcduck]

or if there has been someone else in the picture for a while and she is getting the surgery for, since she announced she wanted the surgery about 4 month before the split he did seem a little more distant than usual but that could have just been because od the way she was feeling about herself, I always made sure to tell her she looked perfect the way she was.

I was a little suspicious that she could have been talking to someone as she started spending a lot of time in the bath and staying up late sometime after I went to bed. I maybe should have mentioned this a long time ago on here.

however we have been FaceTime almost every night so im sure by now she would have went out with this guys. plus she lived in my home for 2 weeks after we split, if there was someone else he would have just came and got her. I would if I was talking to a girl and she was in an uncomfortable situation, I would have just put her up in a hotel or something

[EyesUp]

My uBPDxw is objectively attractive. She also had dysmorphia-like behaviors. e.g., she hated her teeth, wouldn't smile in pictures, and didn't like being in pictures in general - you'd never notice anything amiss about her teeth unless you're an orthodontist within inches of her face... I could go on...

If you had asked me how I would respond to infidelity, I would have said that it's a game-ender, but when actually presented with the reality of it, I was not prepared and I did a lot of things to try to "save the relationship" and win her back, etc.

When she finally admitted she was having an affair, some of things she said included:
- I didn't know anyone else wanted to PLEASE READ me
- he said a lot of things you never did
- the attention was addictive

I didn't like hearing any of this, or how it came out - but it had the ring of sincerity. I had to accept that she needed a sort of validation that I did not or possibly could not provide. The fact that I accepted her and appreciated her as she was didn't seem to register for her.

In hindsight, it didn't really matter how I felt about her or how I expressed it - what really mattered for her was about how she felt. And the fact is, she often didn't feel good, and my attention, affection, etc., didn't change that.

Like any other relationship, healthy or not, sometimes things don't really click. I was shocked that my unconditional love and commitment didn't seem to register. Big eye opener.

No one can tell you what to do or what's right for you. But if your gf truly has most of the BPD attributes, you should take her at her word when she expresses that she's struggling with her sense of self image / self worth / mental health - which truly is separate and independent from how she feels about you. i.e., she's beautiful to you, but she feels she needs cosmetic surgery...   there's probably nothing you can do to change this. And you're wise to anticipate that she may perceive new attention after the procedure, which she will likely find validating, exciting.

It's hard to be in this position. I wish I could offer more than that.

Have you read about attachment styles?  Possibly worth a look...

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=279028.0

[stevemcduck]

I haven't been faced with infidelity so I can't say with absolute certainty but I do believe that would be an ender for me.

it is a concern about the validation after the surgery but only a small one. she seems to prefer validation from women, she quickly shuts down men approaching, for example she has a large following on TikTok and its 99% women on there, its a fashion page, she blocks guys. so of course it could be a problem but im feeling that its not my biggest concern. my biggest concern is that she said she want to be with me but equally wants to be alone and doesn't understand her mindset on this, she is confused. also that she can't be the way she was before, she can't understand why but she doesn't know where that person has gone

thanks for the info, I know a lot about attachment styles

[stevemcduck]

she has now left me on seen after good texting for a few days, any advice, should I message again or leave her be?, she said goodnight and I said goodnight back and next day nothing, it was her turn to text

[EyesUp]

Steve,

Forgive me if this seems too direct or critical, but - Do you have a solid agreement about taking turns?

Either way, my suggestion is:  Don't text.

Step back. Leave it up to her to show you who she is and how she feels. When she does, listen carefully.

No more long messages - especially when she is about to have a procedure. If you want to offer good wishes, fine. Be sincere yet also concise. Make it about her, not about you.

Let the ball drop on her side of the court, and be prepared to wait for a response. She's already told you directly that she's no longer in the old mode of rapid texting anymore.

The fact is, no one here truly knows you - or her - the best we can do is offer general advice - and that advice likely boils down to:  You need to respect what she has shared... If she said that she's not in rapid text mode, don't be surprised that she's not in rapid text mode.

For reference, I also have a gf. Not BPD. I give zero attention to who texted last. We're both busy people. If something is urgent or requires follow up, I communicate accordingly. There is zero score keeping. It's really great to be in a non-BPD relationship...   (don't get me started about my uBPDxw, however...)

As a side note, consider turning off the "read" notification. Very few people use this feature, in my experience. It seems like it's causing you more stress than comfort.  $0.02.

You want something to change - so make the change in yourself. That's all any of us can do.

Hang in there.

[stevemcduck]

thank you for the response

we dont have an official rule about it, jut with it being long distance now this is the first time she has done this.

im at my wits end to be honest, I can't handle the devaluation. im just really struggling to let her go, this is my first bpd breakup and its stripping me of all of my self worth.

what happened to that girl I knew only 4 months ago?

[Pook075]

My uBPDxw is objectively attractive. She also had dysmorphia-like behaviors. e.g., she hated her teeth, wouldn't smile in pictures, and didn't like being in pictures in general - you'd never notice anything amiss about her teeth unless you're an orthodontist within inches of her face... I could go on...

I have two BPDs in my direct family- an ex wife and a daughter.  Both of them were unhappy with their bodies and we know with BPD, self image is a challenge.

My BPD daughter was a skinny teen with big boobs, very sexy.  But after an incident with a boyfriend, she decided that she would rather date girls.  Then, she decided that she was supposed to be born a man, and wanted to transition.  Through many conversations though, she would share that if she was a man then no other man could take advantage of her and she could fight back.  Her story breaks my heart because mental illness really took its toll.  So far, no transitioning...she does at least want a boob reduction though (which we're not against; she never wore bras and it's a clear problem now).

In my kid's mind, a transition would "fix her" and make her feel normal.  But the mental health will remain regardless and it's going to be present in any body type.  That's the lie they deal with; that a cosmetic surgery will make everything feel better.  And it never does long-term.