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How to communicate after a contentious divorce... Following a contentious divorce and custody battle, there are often high emotion and tensions between the parents. Research shows that constant and chronic conflict between the parents negatively impacts the children. The children sense their parents anxiety in their voice, their body language and their parents behavior. Here are some suggestions from Dean Stacer on how to avoid conflict.
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Author Topic: Do boundaries ever work?  (Read 1167 times)
pantherpanther

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« on: August 07, 2025, 03:01:17 PM »

I've read from a lot of sources that spouses of BPD need to set boundaries and consequences.  This sounds great in theory.  In practice, it sounds like a rational solution to an irrational problem.

Even if I wrote up a great set of boundaries, I can't imagine how enforcing it would look.  She already violated the ultimate boundaries.  "If you cheat on me again, then no dessert for a week."  I'm being hyperbolic, but my experience has been the person willing to fight more aggressively always determines the actual consequences -- and my BPD wife is undefeated.

It feels as though the only real consequence with any impact is, "I'm done."  Anything else just leads to a bigger argument and probably splitting.

I'm having trouble grasping the "how."  If you've done it, were they written?  Like a contract or rulebook?  Did you verbally dictate them?  Did you collaboratively negotiate them?  How did enforcing them go?  Is it sustainable?
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zachira
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« Reply #1 on: August 07, 2025, 03:50:43 PM »

You are right that your wife will likely resist your boundaries because of how she behaves. Boundaries are for you. The most important boundary can be to limit the interactions with your wife, and how long you are upset by how she treats you. She will likely do everything to get things back to where they were originally.
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kells76
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« Reply #2 on: August 07, 2025, 04:09:01 PM »

I'm having trouble grasping the "how."  If you've done it, were they written?  Like a contract or rulebook?  Did you verbally dictate them?  Did you collaboratively negotiate them?  How did enforcing them go?  Is it sustainable?

The "how" of boundaries is a great question, because I get where you're coming from -- if boundaries are just a list of rules for the pwBPD, then that doesn't sound like a very rational solution. Or, if it did work, none of us would be here  Laugh out loud (click to insert in post)

Boundaries are for you.

That, in a nutshell.

A common pop culture misconception about boundaries is that they are us finally standing up to the person and saying "you can't do that to me any more", and if we're just... I don't know, convincing enough, loud enough, airtight enough, etc, then through sheer force and white knuckling, the person will stop doing XYZ.

That's very different from true boundaries.

A real boundary is a rule for yourself / your own life, set by you, related to your own abilities and limitations as a human being (what you can do, what you can't do, what you will be around, what you won't be around). A real boundary does not require anyone else's cooperation, agreement, understanding, or participation... fortunately! It doesn't require announcing it, explaining it, verbalizing it, or spelling it out. A true boundary is a decision you make about your own life and that decision could even be entirely within your own mind.

The moment we start trying to figure out how to make our pwBPD adhere to our boundary is the moment we aren't actually talking about real boundaries. We might be talking about preferences, or desires, or wishes, or requests, or demands, which are all fine, but none of those are boundaries.

To pull from your post, we could use cheating/infidelity as an example.

A common/pop-culture dynamic is something like:
Partner A: don't you dare cheat on me, I won't tolerate it! (thinking that's a boundary)
Partner B: cheats
Partner A: I told you not to cheat on me! Don't you dare do it again! (stays in the relationship)
Partner B: cheats again
Partner A: I just don't get how to make my partner respect my boundary

Telling someone else what to do, or what not to do, isn't a boundary. Trying to make someone else stick to my demand/request/wish is an exercise in futility, whether that person has BPD or not. We don't control anyone else.

The only person we have 100% control over is ourselves, and we are in the driver's seat for what we choose to allow into our lives, and what we decide we can handle (or not). We have to be OK, though, with the natural fallout of having boundaries to protect ourselves. Having boundaries doesn't mean other people won't be hurtful, irrational, damaging, or insensitive, and having boundaries doesn't mean I won't experience loss in my life. Having boundaries is more like having an umbrella on a rainy day. Umbrellas don't make the rain stop... but umbrellas keep me from getting wet, if I choose to have an umbrella in my life. I may mourn the loss of being able to be outside and enjoy a dry day without an umbrella -- there is still loss -- but I am protected from the rain. The rain can do what it wants, and while I grieve not having a dry day, I am not getting wet.

Going back to the cheating example, a "true boundary" version might be more like:

Partner A: I am able to stay in a monogamous relationship. I am not able to stay in a relationship where there is cheating, or where cheating happens and then there is no therapy together.
Partner B: cheats
Partner A: I am not able to stay in this relationship if there is cheating, and then no therapy. I'll set up a therapy appointment for us for Day/Time, please feel free to come
Partner B: doesn't attend
Partner A: I'm saddened to be ending this relationship. I wish it were different. I respect myself enough to follow my own boundaries

Boundaries are about us respecting ourselves, and articulating to ourselves what our values are. It can be very freeing to realize that we don't have to make anyone do anything, or "give consequences" to anyone about anything... we just need to have our own inner strength to know what we are OK with, and then respect ourselves enough to follow our own boundaries/values.

The only person who can "break" or "disrespect" our boundaries is... ourselves.

Always a great topic, thanks for bringing it up. And do check out our workshop on Boundaries and Values if you haven't already. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts on it, especially this post, which is so helpful that I'll excerpt the whole thing:

Values, boundaries, and boundary defense are a commitment to myself, not an attempt to force change or control another person.

An important aspect of "boundaries" is that it sometimes takes some effort to grasp is the idea that values are a commitment to myself  - not an attempt to force change or control another person.

The struggles of defending (setting) boundaries is often an issue that overlaps greatly with co-dependent tendencies or not having healthy relationship practices.  Many people with codependent tendencies lean toward "knowing" well what other people need to do, but struggle greatly to re-focus their attention onto themselves.  When the focus goes back on the self, some people struggle to know who they are, what they want, or to take responsibility for how to get it.

So, the quandary can be - "I want this, and I want it from/with a certain person".  What we want may be attainable in a relationship with the desired person, or it may not.  Part of being responsible for our own well being is accepting this.

Values/boundaries, in practice, is a statement about one's self.  So, if we consider the codependent tendency, early in the process of going from an unhealthy pattern to a healthy pattern - early in the process, we might tend to focus on the behavior of others as the solution (e.g. If so-and-so would do this,THEN I would be OK).  So early boundary defense attempts can look like "I'm going to do xyz so that my SO/parent will do this".  This is not living a value or defending a boundary.  Instead, it is really an attempt to control the behavior of another person.  The way to check this is to consider your motivation.  Are we, in our attempt to defend a boundary, trying to change the behavior of another, or just stating what we are willing to do/not do?  If we are trying to change another what we are doing is really an attempt to control or get what we not and this is not healthy.

Values/boundaries are about knowing who we are and what we will choose to participate in.  So, a boundary looks more like, "I will choose to participate in abc ... .I will not participate in xwy".  There is no statement in this "values/boundary" about what someone else needs to do, only about the self.  Boundaries require a sense of personal responsibility.  My well being is my responsibility, not the result of someone else's behavior.

Boundaries can be tricky to defend, especially with someone we've been in a patterned relationship with. Seeking feedback about our boundaries can be a great way to get new ideas for implementing boundaries.

M.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2025, 04:10:29 PM by kells76 » Logged
PeteWitsend
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« Reply #3 on: August 08, 2025, 08:21:42 AM »

I've read from a lot of sources that spouses of BPD need to set boundaries and consequences.  This sounds great in theory.  In practice, it sounds like a rational solution to an irrational problem.

Even if I wrote up a great set of boundaries, I can't imagine how enforcing it would look.  She already violated the ultimate boundaries.  "If you cheat on me again, then no dessert for a week."  I'm being hyperbolic, but my experience has been the person willing to fight more aggressively always determines the actual consequences -- and my BPD wife is undefeated.

It feels as though the only real consequence with any impact is, "I'm done."  Anything else just leads to a bigger argument and probably splitting.

I'm having trouble grasping the "how."  If you've done it, were they written?  Like a contract or rulebook?  Did you verbally dictate them?  Did you collaboratively negotiate them?  How did enforcing them go?  Is it sustainable?

The way I see it, a person who "has good boundaries" would have avoided the relationship with a pwBPD in the first place.  This is why it's important to consider your values, and live by them, and enforce them, and not allow people to treat you as you don't like from the get go. 

That first time a person with good boundaries saw the chaos in a pwBPD erupt, they would have said "Whoa, that's NOT okay" and would not have backed down when the pwBPD made excuses, blamed the other person for "starting it" or whatever, and otherwise lied their way to justify their outburst or behavior.  Very likely this would result in the pwBPD habitually overstepping this boundary, with all sorts of weasel words and personal attacks until the healthy, mature, boundary-haver said "I'm sorry this isn't working for me." and ended it. 

But those of us who didn't have healthy boundaries - for whatever reason - probably didn't like what we were seeing, but naively hoped the problematic behavior would just go away on its own, or after we showed enough commitment... playing right into the hands of the pwBPD.  And then we foolishly married these people, legally tying ourselves to them, making enforcing boundaries that much more difficult.

I think you're right insofar as that if you are going to maintain boundaries in a relationship with a pwBPD - especially if they have BPD characteristics in a strong way, not a mild way - the only likely outcome is for you to leave the relationship.  They will view your boundary as a barrier to the idea that you are fully committed to them, and therefore will direct all their efforts to repeatedly trampling all over it until they overwhelm you into submission. 

It's important to develop personal boundaries and understand how to maintain them in general, to avoid getting proverbially run over in relationships in your life, be they romantic, professional, familial, etc. That's why it's stressed on this site.  But it's not an answer for how to live with a pwBPD. 
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ForeverDad
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You can't reason with the Voice of Unreason...


« Reply #4 on: August 08, 2025, 03:00:57 PM »

As already noted, people with BPD traits resist boundaries.  Boundaries are essentially how we respond to poor behavior.  Their resistance is termed extinction bursts where the other tries to get us to retreat back to the prior status quo.

Those on the less severe end of the BPD spectrum may be more likely to respond and, if so, the relationship may continue being manageable.  On the other hand, what if the other still doesn't accept - respect - our boundaries?  Quite frankly, that failure may simply be an indicator for you that the relationship doesn't have a future.
« Last Edit: August 09, 2025, 01:15:25 PM by ForeverDad » Logged

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« Reply #5 on: August 12, 2025, 03:15:47 PM »

Boundaries only work for us. They don't work to control someone else. They reflect our own values.

Boudaries also guide us to our own actions if someone violates them. Boundaries are also individual. What is intollerable for one person might not be for someone else.

If someone values monogamy- then it's important to them to not be unfaithful. They would choose to be in a relationship with someone with the same value. If someone wants an open marriage, they choose someone else who would too. It becomes an issue when the two people's values don't align.

So, your wife was unfaithful. While you are concerned about what to do to change this behavior on her part- this isn't within your ability. Having BPD doesn't excuse behavior. PwBPD are still considered to be legally competent. The boundary is about your actions. What are you going to do about it?

For financial infidelity- a boundary could be to make sure her acccess to savings and credit has some limits to it.

For the marital infidelity, your choice is to give her another chance or not, but know your emotional limits. If you choose to stay in the marriage- what would you do if it were to happen again?



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« Reply #6 on: August 14, 2025, 04:51:06 PM »

As pointed out brilliantly by others - boundaries are to protect you.  They will never, ever cause a pwBPD to change behavior or respect those boundaries. NEVER.

The good of boundaries is to protect your sanity.  And usually, the only ones that work are ones that say "I'm done" or leaving the room/house or whatever.  I can tell W "I am done talking about this subject" and that just escalates things further and I wind up having to leave the house to take a walk/drive.   Not a bad thing, in the long run.  Beats listening to hours of complaints and negativity. 

pwBPD don't learn lessons - they will always, ALWAYS, find ways of blaming others.  ALWAYS.  My W has had many opportunities in her life to learn from past incidents - and has repeated them over and over and over - sometimes not even 5 minutes later!  When she talks about past incidents - she sometimes comes close to seeing her own role in things - but quickly catches herself to come back and describe how someone else took advantage of her.  Example - she told me a week or two ago that in her past she once lost a bunch of weight due to emotional stress.  I asked her about it, and the emotional stress was because of a breakup.  But then she said the breakup happened after she cheated, then rationalized it by saying she doesn't even know if he ever found out about the cheating, and then she told me she had no appetite until she entered another relationship.  Nothing about her.  It was all external forces that caused her problem, and external forces that fixed her problem.  That is what we are dealing with.  Boundaries only remove us from the drama circle. 

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pantherpanther

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« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2025, 08:24:15 AM »

Thank you all!  It is interesting to me that so many people with scars are willing to share deep insights like this.
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