In pieces

[MovieMan]

Yesterday I broke like never before.

After she had been literally cornering me, holding her phone next to my ear, trying to force me to listen to a recording she made of one of our arguments, and using it to try and convince me that I am a narcissist, I ran away from her to a coffee shop to work, because I had a deadline, which meant nothing to her. But of course, I could not get my mind back into my work. What was happening just hurt too much.

I've been married for 23 years and I love her so deeply. We have two children together and they are our everything. Now, we have always had challenges, but all in all, had a good life together. I had noticed some patterns, but was totally uninformed so I just thought, that's just how she is, and left it.
But over the last 6 years or so, she has gotten obsessed with the idea that I am a narcissist, reading everything she can find and watching endless videos online, and sharing them with me. Now, I have immense trauma from childhood, having experienced sexual abuse and neglect. But one thing about me is, I am so very willing to look at my faults and do everything I can to correct them.

And because of this, I completely believed her.

I accepted her diagnoses of me as a narcissist and became religiously aware of everything I said and did. I became so careful around her just in case 'my narcissism' hurt her again. And yes, there had been times when I said hurtful things to her, and I accepted them and apologized. But she kept bringing them up as proof. She kept sending me text conversations from years ago, and then saying see, this is who you are.
I hated the idea of being someone who hurt her and so did everything I could to rectify that. Even committed to therapy, which I have just started. But it was never enough. Somehow, she still found reasons to turn the smallest thing that I did, into a huge fight, just pumped full of so much rage that it became disorientating.

Then a few days ago, while both of us were speaking to a friend who is a clinical psychologist, he said she has BPD, and I instantly started crying, because I had known, but she had successfully convinced me that everything was me. And yes, a lot of our issues was me, and I probably do have some narcissistic traits, (I am so looking forward to my therapist either confirming or denying it because either way, I know I will accept it and work at it) but my gut had told me it was not all one-sided, and this was the confirmation. I felt so much relief.

And then I started researching. And wow, it all just clicked. Everything I had been experiencing was there, perfectly mapped. The push-pull cycle. The absolute inability to see herself as 'wrong'. The splitting. Oh my god the splitting! One moment I was sent from heaven above, and the next moment I was literally Lucifer incarnate. And I accepted it. I was the problem. I was the narcissist.
But hey, now at least we both knew that it was indeed BOTH of us, and we could both get therapy and that meant there was hope! Not so fast. A few days in, and she started sending me material on covert narcissism, and every conversation was about how excited she was because I can now get better, and how she hopes I can see what I've been doing to her.
But not a single word about the BPD. Nothing. Zero. And it started chipping away at me.

And yesterday was special in all the wrong ways. I had put down a boundary, and she lost her mind.
Running to the coffee shop, I was ready to exit the marriage. I was at that point. She started texting me and using our kids and how it would affect them negatively. She zoomed in on the things that really touch the nerves in me, and she just kept pushing, right in those places. I called her and begged her to stop, and right there at that coffee shop, I started ugly crying. I was shredded, had no more self esteem left. It all just hurt so very much.

I could feel an avalanche of emotion coming so I quickly settled the bill and ran to my car. And that's where I let go. I screamed and cried in a way I did not think possible. It came from the deepest part of me. It emptied me. It carried on for about half-an-hour. Relentless waves of pain. I was not crying for me, but for us, for the love I thought we shared, for the love we would never again have, for our kids, for the failure our marriage was, when I had believed, truly believed it was special. Even as I write these words, the tears wont stop. Because I don't see any hope for us.

And here is why.

I called her again, later, still in my car, still crying, begging her to stop. But she remained convinced that my crying was a manipulation tactic. I was stripped to my core, It was the most vulnerable I could be, but it still wasn't enough. And in fact, her effect on me is so powerful, that as I sit here, I wonder whether that deep hollowing sorrow was in fact just my narcissism.

This is now my life. And I don't know how to help and protect my children anymore.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Pook075]

First off, welcome to the family and I'm so sorry we're meeting under these circumstances.  What you've been through is horrible and I experienced only a small fraction of what you have in my 23 year marriage.  I saw the same patterns, received the same accusations, but never to the degree you're seeing it.

You posted in the bettering forums, which means advice will be geared towards saving your marriage.  But truthfully, in your situation it wouldn't matter what your intentions are, because there's a very clear path ahead.  You need to actually take the time to heal and overcome the decades of manipulation you've faced.

Just so you know, a narcissist would almost never think about if someone was calling them a narcissist...they'd explode and scream (sot of what your wife does to you...).  A narcissist is incapable of genuine empathy because it's always about them, every word, every action, every second of the day is self-serving.  They can mimic empathy if it's self-serving, but generally it's short lived.

Why am I saying this?  If you think you're a narcissist because your wife said so, then you're probably not.  My BPD ex wife of 23 years said the exact same thing.

BPD and NPD are closely tied on the spectrum, and people who are diagnosed with one often have some traits of both.  If your wife is continually trying to convince you how horrible you are, despite what you do to make things right, that feels like textbook narcissism to me.

Your goal here is simple- realize that you're responsible for you, and your wife is responsible for her.  You can't "fix her" or convince her to get help, but you can certainly decide to get yourself in a better headspace to heal from this abuse.  It's fantastic that you're starting therapy and having someone to talk this out with.  That's crucial.

Now, what to do about your wife. 

You made a boundary and she pushed back...which is what just about anyone with mental illness would do when you stand up for yourself.  But your boundary was hollow, you didn't follow through.  Even though you physically left home, you allowed her to call and message you non-stop.  She was punishing you for trying to punish her (at least what she viewed as punishment) and ultimately, she won because you allowed her to drive you to a breakdown.

And again, I'm so so very sorry you're going through this.  I'm guessing you posted here though because you're looking for answers to change these patterns.

All I can say is, stick to your boundaries.  Use "me statements" whenever possible like, "I need some space.  I'm not okay right now.  I can't ague anymore."  That's a lot better than, "I need to get away from you...I'm tired of you starting arguments over nothing."

When the "me statements" don't work, then move to boundaries.  You walk away and if necessary, you turn your phone off.  If you come home to fireworks, go back to "me statements" like "I don't feel safe here and the kids shouldn't be here either."  You're saying all this as patiently and as lovingly as possible, which I know is crazy difficult in your situation.  But you must de-escalate and walk away if that's not an option.

Your wife need therapy and possibly medication, but you're literally helpless to convince her.  She has to want to change, and the only way that happens is if she's faced with a realization that something is very wrong internally.  BPDs blame everyone and everything to avoid seeing that the problem is within, so this is super common.  Compassion and healthy boundaries are the best tools you have to help her long term (even if she pushes back and things are temporarily worse).

My heart breaks for you- I was in the same position three years ago.  I was devastated, broken, and so lost.  My faith is what helped me turn everything around and respond to my wife the right way.  Our marriage didn't survive, and my ex still denies that she has anything wrong.  But others have noticed and the same patterns are forming in her life all over again.  I mention that to say that none of this is your fault...it would have happened regardless who your wife was married to. 

The problem, my friend, is mental illness.  Please accept that this is not your fault at all.

[Rowdy]

The fact that you are here asking questions……. nah, you’re not a narcissist. A narcissist wouldn’t give a flying f… it would just be out the door, on to the next victim. Their grandiose sense of self and lack of empathy means they simply don’t care. They certainly wouldn’t be sitting in their car crying, so get the idea that you are a narcissist out of your head.

It is a spectrum, and EVERYONE is on it to an extent. We all have certain narcissistic traits but at a normal level it is healthy, otherwise you would just become a doormat and get trampled on by everyone.

Like the pair of you, I was married to my wife for 23 years. And as Pook says, if you mention any concern of mental health problems on their part or call out their behaviour then you get the narc card levelled at you. Now, I didn’t get that to the extent you seem to have thrown at you, but from my own point of view, and yes it did make me question if I am narcissistic, if I really was one there is not a chance I would have put up with my wife’s behaviour for the 27 years we were together. And when I was discarded in quite cruel circumstances I would have destroyed her in seconds, but I didn’t because I am not a narcissist. And neither are you.

[mitochondrium]

Hello,

I am sorry that this accusations of NPD are going on for so long and that you believed her. Like Pook and Rowdy said it is common for pwBPD to accuse others of their problems (projection). When my pwBPD is dysregulated he can say that I have no empaty. But in reality I just have no understamding for his crazy behaviour/demands/accusations when dysregulated. At that time he also sometimes demands from me to get psychiatric treatment including meds and demands that I confess I also have psychiatric problems. He says I always just think of myself, never listen to him, never admit I am wrong etc. when reality is dofferent. I learnt to stand my ground in this and just calmly say that psychologist said I dont have personality problems, I did tests for autism which also showed I do not have it and nicely ask him to stop. It does not bring wonders, but he is kindly reminded he cannot push me indefinetly and slowly stops.He is on meds and they help him not to dysregulate so much any more luckily.

I think it will be easier for you when your therapist tells you an oppinion on your mental health stats. Maybe the friend clinical psychologist could also give you some oppinion. Then you could use this info from  professionals to make boundaries against this NPD accusations you are facing. It wont be easy, even more so because it was going on for so long, but I think you will just have to endure through all the drama that will probably come with setting the boundary to keep your sanity…


Good luck!

[Me88]

Hello,

I am sorry that this accusations of NPD are going on for so long and that you believed her. Like Pook and Rowdy said it is common for pwBPD to accuse others of their problems (projection). When my pwBPD is dysregulated he can say that I have no empaty. But in reality I just have no understamding for his crazy behaviour/demands/accusations when dysregulated. At that time he also sometimes demands from me to get psychiatric treatment including meds and demands that I confess I also have psychiatric problems. He says I always just think of myself, never listen to him, never admit I am wrong etc. when reality is dofferent. I learnt to stand my ground in this and just calmly say that psychologist said I dont have personality problems, I did tests for autism which also showed I do not have it and nicely ask him to stop. It does not bring wonders, but he is kindly reminded he cannot push me indefinetly and slowly stops.He is on meds and they help him not to dysregulate so much any more luckily.

I think it will be easier for you when your therapist tells you an oppinion on your mental health stats. Maybe the friend clinical psychologist could also give you some oppinion. Then you could use this info from  professionals to make boundaries against this NPD accusations you are facing. It wont be easy, even more so because it was going on for so long, but I think you will just have to endure through all the drama that will probably come with setting the boundary to keep your sanity…


Good luck!

I could have written this. Yes, we're all narcissistic...I too have zero empathy, only for her though since everyone else I've ever known disagrees. And yeah, it's very hard to wrap your head around their splitting and misinterpretations, no logic will fix this. Mine also demanded I go to therapy alone, and even demanded I bring up the issues she had with me, hoping they'd convince me to give in to her demands...both therapists told me to run away, and quick. We're all selfish too, and God I hated hearing 'I don't feel heard'. I still don't even know what that meant, other than her goal was for me to shut up and just listen to her complaints and agree I'm awful. It's hit and miss in telling your partner you were told you weren't diagnosed. They'll say you spun stories, weren't honest, didn't talk about what YOU do. And for me it was a whole new string of issues in that I didn't care about the relationship enough to try and be better. I wish you the best of luck.