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Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits. Practicing lawyer, Senior Family Mediator, and former Licensed Clinical Social Worker with twelve years’ experience and an expert on navigating the Family Court process.
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Author Topic: Why now? It has been a year  (Read 1299 times)
vortex of confusion
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« Reply #30 on: March 14, 2017, 08:25:54 AM »

The point of the previous post was to give him a detailed... .focused... .and useful answer to "what else can I do... ."

I don't feel like I owe him any kind of answer. I feel like I have been a broken record. I feel like I have been pretty clear that I need him to help provide financial support for the kids. Now that he has a job, we have agreed on a set amount. I need him to take some initiative. If he wants to see the kids, he has to take the initiative with me and the kids. I am not going to chase him around trying to make him be a parent.

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Perhaps I should say the goal is more focused.

Right now, my goal is to continue to detach and have as little to do with him as possible.

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You need to be in the room a time or two... .in order for the T to clearly underst and your goals and YOUR parenting methods.  She can help him be a benefit to you... .vice a competition... or net negative

Let me get this straight. . .I am supposed to explain my parenting methods to a therapist so that she can translate them for ex? That is too much. I have made no secret of my parenting methods. I have a library of parenting books that I have read and have offered them to ex to read. Even when things were great, he still didn't take much of an interest in what I was doing. He read a few things and has agreed with me in theory. He isn't competing with me on the parenting stuff. He seems quite content to let me do it all while waiting around for me to tell him what to do. He has tried to mirror my parenting for years. It fails because he isn't doing it from a place of authenticity or sincerity. The kids can see straight through his facade.

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Again... .this is about having a clear... focused answer when he goes "what else could I do... ?"  I know it's pitiful that he has to be told this... .  

Why do I owe him an answer?

The only answer I feel like giving him is, "Give me financial support for the kids and go f*** yourself. You have my blessing and encouragement this time."

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Plus... .it would be good to see what he will or won't do before you decide to file for divorce.  Count yourself lucky that he seems compliant with your direction in parenting... .visiting... .all of that.

I have a pretty good idea of what he will or won't do when I decide to file for divorce. I am not too worried about that. Even if he tries to fight me, he doesn't have a leg to stand on. I recognize that I am fortunate that he isn't fighting me on stuff and is being pretty compliant. I expected nothing less from him. He is being his compliant good boy self. No surprises there. I don't expect that to change much. Any "fighting" will be him acting like a petulant child and doing his normal stuff.

I am detaching from him. I don't owe him explanations. I don't owe him anything really. Yes, I want to work with him to see the kids but only up to a certain point. If he is that serious about wanting to see the kids, then he has to prove it to me and them. So far, he has taken very little initiative with regards to seeing the kids. He says that he wants to see them and then expects me to make it happen. His relationship with the kids is in the crapper. The kids don't really care if they see him or not. Several of them have said that they don't really want to see him. When I make suggestions and try to give him credit, the kids know that dad didn't come up with the idea. I don't feel like it is up to me to try to advocate for him with the kids. He needs to do that for himself.

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This is not about you two as a couple... .

If it isn't about the two of us as a couple, then what is the point behind it? Ex is not going to hear anything that I have to say and he is not going to hear anything that the kids have to say. Why would divorce or separation impact his ability to hear me or the kids? It seems like magical thinking to think that I could go sit down with him and a T to discuss parenting and see any kind of results. He has had 16 years to work with me and get on the same page with regards to parenting. What has changed that would suddenly make him able to do something different?

I have accepted that he is who he is and isn't going to change. Now, I am detaching and trying to figure out how to handle his crap as it comes up. Any work that I do with a therapist is going to be focused on ME and the kids. If he wants to improve his parenting or work with me, then he gets to suggest it. He gets to ask for it. He is his own person. He can parent however the hell he wants. I will continue to parent the way I have been parenting for years. Nothing that I do is a big secret. If he doesn't get it, that is on him, not me. It is no longer my problem. The people that need my love and attention and validation and energy are my kids.
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formflier
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« Reply #31 on: March 14, 2017, 09:17:36 AM »


   

Hang in there... .this is tough stuff.


If it isn't about the two of us as a couple, then what is the point behind it? Ex is not going to hear anything that I have to say and he is not going to hear anything that the kids have to say. Why would divorce or separation impact his ability to hear me or the kids? It seems like magical thinking to think that I could go sit down with him and a T to discuss parenting and see any kind of results. He has had 16 years to work with me and get on the same page with regards to parenting. What has changed that would suddenly make him able to do something different?
 

The point is the long term parenting relationship.

I agree... .he probably isn't going to listen to you and the kids.  That sucks. 

He asked what else he could do... .point him to someone else that can lighten your load and do the talking for you. 

It's obvious that you don't want to keep telling him these things (and you shouldn't have to).

If you don't want to be in same T room with him... .I'm sure an explanation or even an email with the highlights of your parenting method would do.

Would you really want him to explain to someone else how you parent?


Is there much of a chance that a T will help... .I would guess there wouldn't be much change in him... .but you never know.

The point of my suggestion is not for him... .but for you.  I got the sense that his manner and his "I've done everything you asked... .now what?"  Kinda questions bugged you... .and perhaps you were tired of trying to answer that question.

Listen... .you don't owe him anything... .zip zero nada.  This is not about him... .it's about you and your kids and a potential pathway that can lighten your load. 

Would you rather he rambles on to you every time he sees you about "I've done everything... ."... .or ramble to someone else?  Especially if that someone might point him to take more responsiblity and provide more actual help.

FF
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Notwendy
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« Reply #32 on: March 14, 2017, 10:46:37 AM »

Vortex-

I wanted to give you a virtual hug. I hear you. Too little and too late.

Why now? It's hard to guess. I did read an article once about people having an affair. During the initial stages of it, they are high on the newness, and excitement of the situation. It doesn't seem fair, but a new person can be a mystery compared to the person they are with. So, during this "high" they really are high- on their own brain high drugs. One of the questions asked was do they ever regret it? The response was that some do- but only after the newness of the situation wears off- and they realize that this person isn't all idealization ( and they can also recreate the dysfunction they had in their marriage), and they actually see the effects of breaking up their family and can realize this loss- that some of them do have regrets- but by then it is often too late to return to the marriage they had.

I know your H didn't quite fit this scenario, but being a sex addict, I think he probably is "high" on the fantasies he pursued, in addition to being high on the  person he told you about after he left. There is also the newness of being single. He may have thought the grass was greener on the other side of where he was at. It takes a while for that new green grass to look more realistic over time and not be so green as he thought it was. It is also the anniversary- and anniversaries of events can bring up emotions.

But whatever it is, if he hasn't done some serious self work to change- he is still the same. You've made some giant leaps to get where you are. It wasn't easy. It may be a good thing for him to feel some remorse. You don't have to fix that for him. His feelings are his responsibility.

Take care of you!
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #33 on: March 14, 2017, 10:54:53 AM »

The point is the long term parenting relationship.

Here is the reality: Anything that is accomplished can be undone in an instant. If he finds somebody or something else, he will check out again. I don't see his new found interest or concern to be something that will last. He will get tired of doing the work at some point. The reality is that it is going to fall on my shoulders. I don't have any trust in him or faith in him whatsoever. If I thought there was some kind of hope for the long term parenting relationship, I would still be with him.

The only way things will change is if he finds somebody else to speak for him and tell him what to do. If his mommy tries to "fix" things and help him be a parent, then that might impact things. Or, maybe he will find a new "friend" that will try to help him parent. If either of those things happen, then anything and everything that is done now will be a waste. And, I will likely have to work with that person instead of him.

He is impulsive and inconsistent. Planning anything long term with him seems ridiculous.

Excerpt
He asked what else he could do... .point him to someone else that can lighten your load and do the talking for you. 

If he wants to lighten my load, he can buzz off. I don't want or need anybody to do the talking for me. I am done trying to be heard by him. I come up with stupid stuff for him to do around the house IF I feel like I can handle being around him. I have a book or two that I am going to pass along to him. I have asked him to read several books over the years. If he read them, he sure as hell didn't implement anything that he read.

Excerpt
If you don't want to be in same T room with him... .I'm sure an explanation or even an email with the highlights of your parenting method would do.

Dude, I have given him book after book about my parenting methods. I don't have to explain or highlight anything. If he wants to take me to court, let him. If a judge or other person wants to make me explain my parenting methods, fine. Ex got to hear me explain my parenting when we were investigated by CPS several years ago. I don't understand why an explanation or email is necessary. Why are my parenting methods at issue here?

I started this thread because I am irritated with the fact that he is suddenly interested in me and the kids a year later. I find it frustrating. It threw me for a loop. His actions show that he doesn't care about my parenting methods. His actions over the long term show that his sudden remorse and missing us is likely some kind of passing thing because he is bored.

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Would you really want him to explain to someone else how you parent?

He can't do it. He can't explain how I parent. I don't use a script. I don't follow some kind of written guidelines that say if x happens, do y. I evaluate each situation on an individual basis and respond accordingly. Since he can't explain it or understand it, I am supposed to go around justifying it and explaining it for a T or somebody else so they can explain it to him? Nope, not going to happen. He is going to say what he wants without regard to whether I give my side or not.

He is going to say and do whatever he wants. I can't go around telling people stuff to prevent him from trying to explain what I do to other people. He is going to explain it how he explains it whether I give any input or not. I am confident in what I do. Let him explain it however he wants to whomever he wants.

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Is there much of a chance that a T will help... .I would guess there wouldn't be much change in him... .but you never know.

I see this as magical thinking. Any change that may or may not happen has to be because HE does it on his own without input from me. He is a big boy. He needs to act like it.

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The point of my suggestion is not for him... .but for you.  I got the sense that his manner and his "I've done everything you asked... .now what?"  Kinda questions bugged you... .and perhaps you were tired of trying to answer that question.

Yes, those questions bug me. Yes, I am tired of answering that question. He has used the whole "I have done everything you have asked. What do you want me to do now?" as a way to dismiss me for years. He loves to ask for specific directions and lists and then do that and only that and then wave it in front of me like a good little boy and seek praise. If I am not happy with anything, then I am an impossible to please, demanding monster. I feel like this is a set up for him to play victim again. Here it is a year later and he is acting like nothing has happened and nothing has transpired and he can ask me to tell him what to do and weasel his way back in.

Excerpt
Listen... .you don't owe him anything... .zip zero nada.  This is not about him... .it's about you and your kids and a potential pathway that can lighten your load. 

The kids and I are doing great without him. Our lives are so much more peaceful and so much less complicated. I am not wanting to run away from kids so I don't really care if he visits with them or not. My kids are of an age where they can look out for each other if I need to run to the store. My load lightened as soon as I kicked him out.

Excerpt
Would you rather he rambles on to you every time he sees you about "I've done everything... ."... .or ramble to someone else?  Especially if that someone might point him to take more responsiblity and provide more actual help.

LOL. He is going to ramble to anybody that will listen. If I don't want to listen to him ramble, it is up to me to shut him down and put up boundaries. All I need to do is be consistent in shutting him down. The idea of him taking more responsibility is laughable at best. I don't have much hope for that. Quite frankly, as long as he gives financial support for the kids, I really don't care what he does.
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formflier
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« Reply #34 on: March 14, 2017, 11:55:21 AM »

Quite frankly, as long as he gives financial support for the kids, I really don't care what he does.

Have you told him this... .?

This is the clear message from your post.  You  don't want him around... .you want the check. 

And that's OK... .he has earned that message... .you have earned the right to feel and say that.

That message should be easy to deliver to him... .and for you to be consistent about. 

You deserve a virtual hug from me and everyone else.     

Hang in there VOC! 

FF

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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #35 on: March 14, 2017, 12:04:05 PM »

Thank you Notwendy!

Why now? It's hard to guess.

I have a lot of different theories. Ultimately, it doesn't really matter. What matters is that I have made my decision and plan to stick with it. What threw me for a loop is that I was starting to relax a bit and wasn't feeling quite so hypervigilant. It almost feels like he knew exactly when to swoop in and throw me off.

Excerpt
they actually see the effects of breaking up their family and can realize this loss- that some of them do have regrets- but by then it is often too late to return to the marriage they had.

I think he is probably starting to see some of this because he doesn't have a free ride. He had to go out and get his own apartment and has to pay his own bills and be responsible. For the last year, he was living with a friend, rent free. All he had to worry about was groceries and giving whatever support he could to the kids.

Excerpt
But whatever it is, if he hasn't done some serious self work to change- he is still the same. You've made some giant leaps to get where you are. It wasn't easy. It may be a good thing for him to feel some remorse. You don't have to fix that for him. His feelings are his responsibility.

No, he hasn't done any kind of serious self work. For the last year, he did the same things that he had been doing for years. Going to his meetings, playing video games, and looking for "friends" is what he did. He did start going back to church. There was one time when we had a conversation where he was trying to convince me that he had changed. I told him flat out, "What reason do I have to believe that you have changed? You are still hanging out with the same people. You are still doing the same things that you have been doing for years. You are still giving me the same song and dance that you have been telling me. Nothing is new. You must think I am really stupid to believe that you just magically woke up and now everything is different." After that, he did find a counselor and started seeing him. Change doesn't happen over night so him saying, "See, I am in counseling now." doesn't really move me or give me hope. I know how he is. He may be going to counseling but I still don't see any sign of him internalizing anything to a point where it is leading to changes in his actions.
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #36 on: March 14, 2017, 12:11:45 PM »

Have you told him this... .?

Oh yes, I have told him that directly. I have said it in nice ways and mean ways and every which way you can imagine.  Smiling (click to insert in post)

Excerpt
That message should be easy to deliver to him... .and for you to be consistent about.

I can deliver that message a thousand times and that still isn't going to prevent him from trying to bump up against it and test me to see if I have backed off or changed my mind. He is going to keep throwing rocks at my wall. That is reality. He may back off from time to time when he finds something else to distract him. It is sometimes difficult to be consistent.

Despite everything that has happened, he is still the father of my children and we have 20 years of history together. I don't hate him and I do still have a lot of love and compassion for him. He knows this about me. He knows how to wear me down. I can't let it happen no matter how much I long for the days when I felt like things were good and happy between us.
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« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2017, 01:13:05 PM »


From a boundaries point of view... .if you are getting worn down, it likely means to "move up" the enforcement action.  Do it sooner.

Likely also do it less times.  Once if possible.  If he "throws a rock" at the wall the next day... .same simple message. 

Not that it will be easy for you when you "hear" the rock ping up against your wall... .

FF
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vortex of confusion
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« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2017, 01:36:46 PM »

From a boundaries point of view... .if you are getting worn down, it likely means to "move up" the enforcement action.  Do it sooner.

He can only contact me via phone and email. I have completely removed him from all social media.

There have been times when I have gotten into it with him, recognized that I was going down the rabbit hole and proceeded to tell him, "I am blocking you now." I will leave him blocked for a few days so that I can get centered again. I can't do it forever because there are business matters to tend to such as taxes, etc.

I am honest with him about what I am doing and why. I have been honest with him about how difficult it is for me to work with him. I am not trying to punish him. I am not trying to keep him from the kids. I don't like it when I handle things poorly and I sometimes need to take a step back to regroup.
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