Is it wrong of me to enjoy Karma? Schadenfreude?

[Family Court Strategies: When Your Partner Has BPD OR NPD Traits.]

(if you don't want to read my general updates, then skip to the end for the actual question 

General Update & Thanks to all at BPD Family

I was at counselling on Tuesday.
I only go once a month now.
More to address issues with being in a post-disordered relationship, but still addressing some of the issues from the great dukkha.

My most recent session was mad in how different it was from our early sessions.
We were cracking jokes and everything.

I've had some big breakthroughs since Feb 20th I think. A lot of you have contributed significantly to that, so Thank You all for that.

Feb 20th was the one year anniversary of the Cluster B relationship. A day I anticipated for months.
Of an incredibly intense relationship that lasted 126 days.
It was also 126 days of my new relationship.
( I'm an INFJ, so despite being a scientist - and gradually, buddhist - , I'm bound to look for the symbolic meanings in sh*t. My intuition says this was planned, but that's another story.)

Despite all the recovering I'd done in between, Feb 20th was the last day I had to ’survive'.
It was a day that I'd anticipated for months.
I had dwelled for so long on the ways I was gonna react.
Or maybe lash out. My chance for some retaliation.

I had never retaliated against anything. (Kinda regret that still sometimes, but hey ho... .I couldn't anyway - was terrified of a false rape accusation, and she started to take it that way once)

So when it came down to it, after all that anticipation... .I did nothing.
Only thing I did was put up a happy pic of my new relationship. A positive move, not a negative one.
I also changed my profile pic, to a pic of me and my dog, which got an astronomical amount of likes - which frankly I couldn't give a sh*t about, since I barely use FakeBook, but I appreciated the fact that it got more likes than her slutty profile pic change did - simply because I know that sh*t really bothers her.

And The day came.
And It went.
And Life went on.

====


So March 17th, was the other day.
That day last year, was the first time she told me loved me. (About an hour after that, was the first time I distinctly recall her deploying her jealousy induction tactics).

All in all - that day was fine. I didn't have to survive it.

The progress now - is undeniable.

===
Met my replacement for the first time

I'd met my replacement a few weeks ago for the first time.
It went pretty much how I expected. He claimed she was a pathological liar.
He didn't understand about Personality Disorders.
Had to warn him he needs an STD test, that she had contracted an infection.
He told me she tried the fake pregnancy move on him too.

Like most 'dudes' - he was pretty clueless and just wrote her off as a nutjob.
Not understanding doesn't bother me - it's not needing to understand that bothers me.
Not about him, but about me.

Ignorance is bliss or something. But it must be the INFJ in me - that can't simply write the experience off.
No *rolls eyes* I have to read and study and understand, and then try to help other people. ( I do wonder if this is caretaking behaviour manifesting in another fashion? )

It's not easy to talk to your replacement. Lots of adrenaline and mixed emotions.
But it was good to make peace.
My ex had fed him all kinds of lies about me. Then when she attempted to recycle me - did the same about him.
Tried to instigate war between us. She said it herself enough times - she hates men.

I told him about the attempted hit'n'run - he didn't believe me at first, until I gave him details of the police officer, the time/date and a contact in *his* security firm - to confirm it.

A sidebar - but pretty funny one - when I was mid-conversation, who walked in front of us - only his replacement  (who I don't give a toss about, but clearly it bothered him, the way him being my replacement had bothered me).
It was pretty amazing to be able to see dynamic play out in front of me - and it was funny and too daft to bother me anymore


===

Finally some proof of diagnosis

So anyway - I've had to keep all convos I ever had with my ex for legal reasons.
I've never actually read back over these, except in the aftermath many months ago, to star the hateful messages and obscene threats, for whenever I may have had a weak moment. ( because I did have 2 - post False DV allegations)

For whatever reason - probably because I'd spoken to my replacement - I decided to go back to early March, which I'd never done before.
And there it was in black and white. Something she denied and lied about so hard during the discard

"I was diagnosed as Borderline Personality Disorder a few years ago".
She downplayed it and claimed it was a misdiagnosis, simply to prescribe her medication.
There was also vague denials about NPD (her father is a malignant Narcissist) & ASPD.
This was all Chinese to me at the time.
Kind of spine chilling to read back on it tho... .


When I mentioned to my counsellor, that she claimed it was a misdiagnosis - he said I totally agree.
I was pretty surprised by this. I was like - what do you mean?
He clarified - there's something much more serious than just BPD at play here.

That surprised me more than how I’d originally interpreted his expression, because he is usually so reluctant to use labels.

===
One does not simply escape Samsara

Anyway, I remarked to my counsellor, that things seemed to have already fizzled out with my replacement's replacement.
Also appears she may have relocated yet again, . 15 times in 2.5 years now I think…?
One thing that struck me tho - was that she was trying to destroy her sister's relationship.

She had posted on her sister's wall - if her boyfriend,K, "knew he was going to be coming home single from the Eddie Vedder concert”.
Her sister 'handled it' - goes, "he won't be, but I've warned him, I may pee myself."
BPDex can't let that slide - says, "get me an extra ticket - I'll look after mam, while you go stalk Eddie and K cries to himself in a portaloo”.
(Evidently her sister and her sister's boyfriend did not like this comment, and was removed from public view not long after)

Her "cover" for this type of malicious s**t is to always say - I'm a black humoured b*tch. She even updated her instagram after this falling out with her sister 

So I'm enquiring with my counsellor as to why she would do this... .-to him-
This is the exact same jealousy induction tactic she used on me and every other partner she has had - and I often saw/heard her say reprehensible things/lies about people, including her sister, but it always behind their back.
But why do it to her sister's boyfriend?

I think part of it - is that she can't bear the fact her sister's new relationship is lasting longer than any of hers have. And I appear to have been her last significant.

No surprise, and I saw it a mile off, my counsellor turns it around on me and asks me - I'm not concerned as to why she is acting like this, but more why it still matters to you?
(He understandably has some concern that I may be recycled by her at some stage and harps on this subject at every session - I can’t blame him, because I’ve done things I believed impossible).

I don't think he expected what was coming
I'm usually so... .'nice'.

Me: "look, if I'm completely honest... ."
Him: "yea, that would help... .", he's squirming a little, anxious maybe, expecting me to say I miss the sexual intensity maybe 
Me: "So... .If I'm in touch with my positive emotions as a result of this whole experience... ."
Him: "mm-hmm"
Me: "Well, I'm also in touch with the negative ones. I'm letting that sh*t in. I'm feeling that sh*t too.
Him: “ok and... ."
Me: "I'm taking a certain amount of pleasure in this. It's not that I have no compassion for her, but this is simultaneously bringing me Schadenfreude.

I'm enjoying her seeing her f**k her life up and ruin her relationships even with her family.
I'm enjoying the fact that everyone is beginning to see what a destructive force the poor girl is, how she's like a tornado that leaves destruction in the wake of all lives she touches.

I'm happy that the truth is coming out.

Even when she was running a smear campaign against me at Xmas, or taking inside digs - I never retaliated.
And I really, really wanted to.
This is like some kind of f**ked up experiment. It's like a bizarre Zoo. It's like a slow motion car crash, and I'm not looking because I loved her... .not anymore anyway - I'm looking because it's fascinating to me"

This to me - is Karma.
It's good to finally feel there is some cosmic justice. 


====

So my question is - do any of you take some pleasure in seeing Karma play out?

Part of me feels it's wrong - it's petty and nasty and vindictive.
But like I said - I acknowledge the positive emotions AND the negative emotions now.

[infjEpic]

(if you don't want to read my general updates, then skip to the end for the actual question 

General Update & Thanks to all at BPD Family

I was at counselling on Tuesday.
I only go once a month now.
More to address issues with being in a post-disordered relationship, but still addressing some of the issues from the great dukkha.

My most recent session was mad in how different it was from our early sessions.
We were cracking jokes and everything.

I've had some big breakthroughs since Feb 20th I think. A lot of you have contributed significantly to that, so Thank You all for that.

Feb 20th was the one year anniversary of the Cluster B relationship. A day I anticipated for months.
Of an incredibly intense relationship that lasted 126 days.
It was also 126 days of my new relationship.
( I'm an INFJ, so despite being a scientist - and gradually, buddhist - , I'm bound to look for the symbolic meanings in sh*t. My intuition says this was planned, but that's another story.)

Despite all the recovering I'd done in between, Feb 20th was the last day I had to ’survive'.
It was a day that I'd anticipated for months.
I had dwelled for so long on the ways I was gonna react.
Or maybe lash out. My chance for some retaliation.

I had never retaliated against anything. (Kinda regret that still sometimes, but hey ho... .I couldn't anyway - was terrified of a false rape accusation, and she started to take it that way once)

So when it came down to it, after all that anticipation... .I did nothing.
Only thing I did was put up a happy pic of my new relationship. A positive move, not a negative one.
I also changed my profile pic, to a pic of me and my dog, which got an astronomical amount of likes - which frankly I couldn't give a sh*t about, since I barely use FakeBook, but I appreciated the fact that it got more likes than her slutty profile pic change did - simply because I know that sh*t really bothers her.

And The day came.
And It went.
And Life went on.

====


So March 17th, was the other day.
That day last year, was the first time she told me loved me. (About an hour after that, was the first time I distinctly recall her deploying her jealousy induction tactics).

All in all - that day was fine. I didn't have to survive it.

The progress now - is undeniable.

===
Met my replacement for the first time

I'd met my replacement a few weeks ago for the first time.
It went pretty much how I expected. He claimed she was a pathological liar.
He didn't understand about Personality Disorders.
Had to warn him he needs an STD test, that she had contracted an infection.
He told me she tried the fake pregnancy move on him too.

Like most 'dudes' - he was pretty clueless and just wrote her off as a nutjob.
Not understanding doesn't bother me - it's not needing to understand that bothers me.
Not about him, but about me.

Ignorance is bliss or something. But it must be the INFJ in me - that can't simply write the experience off.
No *rolls eyes* I have to read and study and understand, and then try to help other people. ( I do wonder if this is caretaking behaviour manifesting in another fashion? )

It's not easy to talk to your replacement. Lots of adrenaline and mixed emotions.
But it was good to make peace.
My ex had fed him all kinds of lies about me. Then when she attempted to recycle me - did the same about him.
Tried to instigate war between us. She said it herself enough times - she hates men.

I told him about the attempted hit'n'run - he didn't believe me at first, until I gave him details of the police officer, the time/date and a contact in *his* security firm - to confirm it.

A sidebar - but pretty funny one - when I was mid-conversation, who walked in front of us - only his replacement  (who I don't give a toss about, but clearly it bothered him, the way him being my replacement had bothered me).
It was pretty amazing to be able to see dynamic play out in front of me - and it was funny and too daft to bother me anymore


===

Finally some proof of diagnosis

So anyway - I've had to keep all convos I ever had with my ex for legal reasons.
I've never actually read back over these, except in the aftermath many months ago, to star the hateful messages and obscene threats, for whenever I may have had a weak moment. ( because I did have 2 - post False DV allegations)

For whatever reason - probably because I'd spoken to my replacement - I decided to go back to early March, which I'd never done before.
And there it was in black and white. Something she denied and lied about so hard during the discard

"I was diagnosed as Borderline Personality Disorder a few years ago".
She downplayed it and claimed it was a misdiagnosis, simply to prescribe her medication.
There was also vague denials about NPD (her father is a malignant Narcissist) & ASPD.
This was all Chinese to me at the time.
Kind of spine chilling to read back on it tho... .


When I mentioned to my counsellor, that she claimed it was a misdiagnosis - he said I totally agree.
I was pretty surprised by this. I was like - what do you mean?
He clarified - there's something much more serious than just BPD at play here.

That surprised me more than how I’d originally interpreted his expression, because he is usually so reluctant to use labels.

===
One does not simply escape Samsara

Anyway, I remarked to my counsellor, that things seemed to have already fizzled out with my replacement's replacement.
Also appears she may have relocated yet again, . 15 times in 2.5 years now I think…?
One thing that struck me tho - was that she was trying to destroy her sister's relationship.

She had posted on her sister's wall - if her boyfriend,K, "knew he was going to be coming home single from the Eddie Vedder concert”.
Her sister 'handled it' - goes, "he won't be, but I've warned him, I may pee myself."
BPDex can't let that slide - says, "get me an extra ticket - I'll look after mam, while you go stalk Eddie and K cries to himself in a portaloo”.
(Evidently her sister and her sister's boyfriend did not like this comment, and was removed from public view not long after)

Her "cover" for this type of malicious s**t is to always say - I'm a black humoured b*tch. She even updated her instagram after this falling out with her sister 

So I'm enquiring with my counsellor as to why she would do this... .-to him-
This is the exact same jealousy induction tactic she used on me and every other partner she has had - and I often saw/heard her say reprehensible things/lies about people, including her sister, but it always behind their back.
But why do it to her sister's boyfriend?

I think part of it - is that she can't bear the fact her sister's new relationship is lasting longer than any of hers have. And I appear to have been her last significant.

No surprise, and I saw it a mile off, my counsellor turns it around on me and asks me - I'm not concerned as to why she is acting like this, but more why it still matters to you?
(He understandably has some concern that I may be recycled by her at some stage and harps on this subject at every session - I can’t blame him, because I’ve done things I believed impossible).

I don't think he expected what was coming
I'm usually so... .'nice'.

Me: "look, if I'm completely honest... ."
Him: "yea, that would help... .", he's squirming a little, anxious maybe, expecting me to say I miss the sexual intensity maybe 
Me: "So... .If I'm in touch with my positive emotions as a result of this whole experience... ."
Him: "mm-hmm"
Me: "Well, I'm also in touch with the negative ones. I'm letting that sh*t in. I'm feeling that sh*t too.
Him: “ok and... ."
Me: "I'm taking a certain amount of pleasure in this. It's not that I have no compassion for her, but this is simultaneously bringing me Schadenfreude.

I'm enjoying her seeing her f**k her life up and ruin her relationships even with her family.
I'm enjoying the fact that everyone is beginning to see what a destructive force the poor girl is, how she's like a tornado that leaves destruction in the wake of all lives she touches.

I'm happy that the truth is coming out.

Even when she was running a smear campaign against me at Xmas, or taking inside digs - I never retaliated.
And I really, really wanted to.
This is like some kind of f**ked up experiment. It's like a bizarre Zoo. It's like a slow motion car crash, and I'm not looking because I loved her... .not anymore anyway - I'm looking because it's fascinating to me"

This to me - is Karma.
It's good to finally feel there is some cosmic justice. 


====

So my question is - do any of you take some pleasure in seeing Karma play out?

Part of me feels it's wrong - it's petty and nasty and vindictive.
But like I said - I acknowledge the positive emotions AND the negative emotions now.

[Sunfl0wer]

Not exactly the Buddhist way.
Buddhism is more focused on compassion.

[joeramabeme]

So my question is - do any of you take some pleasure in seeing Karma play out?


Hey Epic

I think it is pretty normal to have ill-will towards someone that hurt you and that may take the form of joy at the thoughts of someone else's suffering or pain.  I think more importantly though is whether we:
- Stay stuck on these thoughts
- Act on them
- can flip back around to having a more holistic picture of someone with a serious disorder that BOTH you and they had no clue about - and most of our exes still don't.

Sunflowers response was really funny, but even if you are a Buddhist, you are simply practicing the precepts - not a master of them, so here is an area to practice if interested.

You are doing great man.  And also, I can take the flip side of your question; is the universe giving you good ju-ju by helping you to see that this was not where you needed to be - despite any reservations that might crop up from time to time... .

Cheers and Namaste!

[enlighten me]

Ive done this often with my uBPD exs. I think of it as validation that it wasn't me that ruined the relationship. I'm not so naïve to think that I was blameless but it helps me to know that they keep making the same mistakes and have the same outcome. Its got less and less over time to the point of indifference for my ex wifes struggles and curiosity for my exgfs.

[bus boy]

People say payback is a ___, what goes around comes around, gods wheels grind slow, but they do grind and on like that. My self, I'm not holding my breath waiting for God to come down and smite her with his sword. It takes to much energy, it holds me back, keeps resentments alive in me and all of that holds me back, keeps me from growing. Xw does very well in life, has a nice house, very good job, lots of money, well dressed, takes very good care of her self, has a great handle on things. She is a viscous emotional abuser, she is grooving along nicely in life bc she has total control of the people in her life, my replacement who I give a sweet fiddlers f**k about and my son who means everything to me, so if I hang around waiting for karma to strike I will be back in the catigory of nut job, I will stay stagnant and prove to everyone I am disfunctional no wonder that poor woman had to leave.

[once removed]

I'm not concerned as to why she is acting like this, but more why it still matters to you?

im not concerned that you feel vindicated, but more why you are still very invested in her life and its outcome.

[Dutched]

To me there is nothing wrong with Schadenfreude

The list of  Schadenfreude is endless long.
Common for Schadenfreude is that any harm done is small, a kind of justice is involved and WE did not cause it, nor could influence it.
Popular examples to have Schadenfreude is Candid camera and America’s funniest home videos.
 So we must admit, reluctantly or with some shame maybe, that there are some situations in which we can’t resist a ”little smile” if something “minor” happens to another person.

Schadenfreude is related with joy, humor, society, culture and the perception of a kind of justice done and yes
throughout history, and even today the discussion continues, it is seen as moral wrong, even as an expression of aggression (Aristotle).

John Portman (2000): “It is not the suffering of others that brings us joy, but rather the evidence of justice triumphing before our eyes”.

Related to this, many (if not all) on this Board experienced at least a kind of moral injustice of how a human being is capable to hurt another beyond belief.

Common is “we” do not deserve to be treated as we were. However subsequently is does not imply as being the victim, we necessarily seek for revenge of any kind, nor do we wait for Schadenfreude to happen.
If, than the Schadenfreude of “moral justice” of a kind can be experienced.

It is okay letting emotions flow if it helps you! You are doing great!

[Sunfl0wer]

im not concerned that you feel vindicated, but more why you are still very invested in her life and its outcome.

Was kinda my thoughts.

Like, we don't wake up and consider what to wear based on the weather and think how great we have it compared to living on "hot Mercury," therefore congratulate ourselves for simply needing a light poncho today.  We don't think: Wow I got it good compared to if I were on Mercury! What a great day.

What is happening on Mercury is really irrelevant to if we donn a coat or goulashes and does it impact our perception of if it is a "beautiful day/beautiful life" or not?
Imo, all things are relative.
We choose our perspective, then live it.

IMHO, detaching is not simply about detaching from the physical person, but also the meaning and what they represent to you.  If you think you are doing great cause another is not, I say, you are still attached to them in someway and could revisit your meaning of detachment.  If you are making your life, relative to another's, that is in itself, attachment of a kind.

idk tho, whatever works I guess
Not saying anyone is wrong or such, just sharing another way of seeing the same stuff maybe.