Sabotage

[VIDEO: "What is parental alienation?"]

In a healthy r/s sabotage from one side doesn't happen. Why destroyed it when the other cares about you?

[jambley]

In a healthy r/s sabotage from one side doesn't happen. Why destroyed it when the other cares about you?

[In a bad way]

In a healthy r/s sabotage from one side doesn't happen. Why destroyed it when the other cares about you?

I asked her that question many times, at first she said about the old saying we take things out on the person closest to us.
After a bit it changed to it's all my fault.
How is her going from laughter to verbally abusing me in a split second when the other her took over my fault.
I think she's been like that for most of her life and it's all she knows.
She is two people in one body, one fantastic and one completely off her rocker.

[jambley]

First and foremost, verbal abuse is inexcusable (I pride myself with old-fashioned manners, that is the way I was brought up). You have respect for yourself and don't let anyone touch that... .no way.

You don't take things out on anybody. My BPD gave me EFF loads of grief after my Dad died. Do you think I care about her? No. Did she verbally assault my dead mother? Yes. Who did I date? Don't ask me.

[once removed]

the trouble with self sabotaging behaviors is that if a person were aware they were doing so, theyd have the catalyst to change.

a lot of people use self defeating and sabotaging behaviors, usually unconsciously.

a perfectionist will often procrastinate. a perfectionist will often set standards impossibly high, and the task will not be completed.

a person with low self esteem will tend to settle for "less" for themselves.

a person with an intense fear of abandonment will test a loved one, to the point of a self fulfilling prophecy.

a person will enter into and stay in relationship turmoil for x number of reasons.


we as human beings tend to do this in lots of ways that we dont readily see.

[In a bad way]

       a person with an intense fear of abandonment will test a loved one, to the point of a self fulfilling prophecy.             

That was the case, I often asked her why she had to ruin everything. It was like the day to her wasn't complete without her starting an argument over nothing at the end of it.
As plans came together she would self destruct as if it was too good to be true, I asked her why she just couldn't accept being happy, it was as if it was alien to her.(happiness)

[Sadly]

Me too, all of that. We could have had a lovely day, lots of laughter and fun, curl up on the sofa after a nice meal, have a favourite to programme in, warm, cozy, happy and bang, over nothing, the TVs remote, the fact my foot was too close to his, nothing? And yet to him it must have been huge, this feeling of happiness overwhelming. To me, those happy moments were lived on the edge of fear. Just before a planned holiday, anything nice. Exhausting and sad. Of course it was me that ruined everything, not him. Shrug.

[Duped 1]

That was the case, I often asked her why she had to ruin everything. It was like the day to her wasn't complete without her starting an argument over nothing at the end of it.
As plans came together she would self destruct as if it was too good to be true, I asked her why she just couldn't accept being happy, it was as if it was alien to her.(happiness)

Interesting- I often asked her why she started fights for no reason and if she even desired to be happy as she couldn't seem to stand peacefulness. She would create chaos for no reason on a routine basis. Of course it was all my issue as well... .

[ShadowA]

From what I understand, being happy is almost like the engulfment part of the push-pull.

So in other words, They would want to sabotage first, because they don't think it'll last.
Kinda like, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I think another point is that they hate themselves, so they can't imagine someone being happy with them.

[In a bad way]

Interesting- I often asked her why she started fights for no reason and if she even desired to be happy as she couldn't seem to stand peacefulness. She would create chaos for no reason on a routine basis. Of course it was all my issue as well... .

I asked mine those exact same questions because as you said she would just start for no reason.
But it would end up being my fault and I started it not her (in her mind).
I think it would have been easier trying to communicate with someone who didn't speak English and I didn't speak their language.
Strange how they have to ruin a good night, I often asked her if she had some inbuilt self destruct or if her previous relationships were constant arguments so to her it was normal, and because I didn't start or give her reason to she felt the need to.
It was if she was addicted to it.

[In a bad way]

From what I understand, being happy is almost like the engulfment part of the push-pull.

So in other words, They would want to sabotage first, because they don't think it'll last.
Kinda like, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I think another point is that they hate themselves, so they can't imagine someone being happy with them.

Very good points.
Also mine would say I'd be better off without her and all that nonsense, I know for a fact she has said the same to previous people.

[stimpy]

From what I understand, being happy is almost like the engulfment part of the push-pull.

So in other words, They would want to sabotage first, because they don't think it'll last.
Kinda like, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I think another point is that they hate themselves, so they can't imagine someone being happy with them.

Good points all.

If I look at my exes childhood, it was characterised by emotional abuse, lack of love, uncertainty and pain. She left home as soon as she could (16), played truent from school for a number of years, may have been sexually abused (I never could really work out what she was saying about this, but she alluded to it), used to escape from home by jumping out of her bedroom window onto the roof of the house and then managed to get away for the evening. Etc... .etc... .And I think this abusive childhood  "taught" her that she is unlovable and maybe even that she hates herself.

And from this chaotic childhood, she learnt that survival meant sometimes running away, no looking back, and no closure. A terrible way to start life. And love and pain go together, that love will be sabotaged, for my ex it was sabotaged by her parents, and that is what she learnt from them, and so to sabotage relationships was engrained in her psyche.

When she told me all this about her childhood at the start of the relationship, I didn't have the tools, knowledge or experience to know what it meant, what the consequences were, and where it would lead for both her and me. I didn't know. I wish I had the knowledge then that I have now. 

And I think my ex had this so engrained in her, that as soon as she felt safe with someone, was falling for someone, was happy with someone, she would suddenly get that feeling of impending fear, like it couldn't last, like pain was just around the corner.

And so that I think is why she would start arguments from nothing, suddenly turn on a dime from loving me to hating me... .and so make my life hell as well.

In the end the disorder wins, the disorder, the mixed up pattern of emotions that she deals with lead inevitably back to what she knows and that is always chaos and pain.

She hates her mother and treats her like crap, treated her ex husband like crap (her admittance) and if I'd hung around for more re-cycles, she would have continued to treat me like crap.

It makes me sad and angry all at the same time. Sad that this is how she was brought up and has to deal with and that it leads to such dysfunctional behaviour and it would seem can't help it, but also angry that she hasn't been able to connect the dots, to seek the therapy that she needs and angry at the pain she has left me with.

[Meili]

Very good points.
Also mine would say I'd be better off without her and all that nonsense, I know for a fact she has said the same to previous people.

It sounds like she was telling you that she was emotionally unavailable to you. Have you considered why you chose to ignore that?

[In a bad way]

It sounds like she was telling you that she was emotionally unavailable to you. Have you considered why you chose to ignore that?

Because for the first 4 months she was perfect. She didn't say that until after.

[Meili]

Because for the first 4 months she was perfect. She didn't say that until after.

Can you expand on that?

You thought that she was perfect for four months. After that, she told you that she was emotionally unavailable. Why ignore it at that point?

[Stolen]

From what I understand, being happy is almost like the engulfment part of the push-pull.

So in other words, They would want to sabotage first, because they don't think it'll last.
Kinda like, a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I think another point is that they hate themselves, so they can't imagine someone being happy with them.

So I asked: "will getting divorced make you happy?"

xW: "NO! I will never be happy!"

And there you have it.  It must be a tortured world they live in. 

[In a bad way]

Can you expand on that?

You thought that she was perfect for four months. After that, she told you that she was emotionally unavailable. Why ignore it at that point?

She didn't say she was emotionally unavailable, she said I'd be better off without her.
This was soon after she started to do crazy things.

[Meili]

She didn't say she was emotionally unavailable, she said I'd be better off without her.
This was soon after she started to do crazy things.

And, that is one of the things that people who are emotionally unavailable say. It is designed to push you away because they cannot allow you to be close.

Rarely does anyone come right out and say, "Hey, I'm emotionally unavailable, so you should just move along." Rather, they find ways to sabotage relationships and push others away.

Make sense?

[once removed]

i heard "you deserve better".

its interesting: i interpreted this as "i am going to try to be better to you".

how many of us heard statements like it? how did you respond?