In search of support

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I am 41 years old and have been in therapy from college until my early 30s to help me deal with OCD, anxiety and guilt that I have discovered is primarily related to being the daughter of a mother with undiagnosed BPD. Not sure if this forum using these categories, but my mother has the traits of a Hermit/Queen.  I am married and have a 10 year old son.  I have practiced limited contact before having a child and controlled contact with my mother after having a child to manage our toxic relationship.  Growing up, my brother was the good child and I the bad child.  This changed when my brother left for college and asserted himself and I became the good child.  I have been maintaining this role for the last 10-15 years. 

I am now considering no contact because I can no longer contain/manage her rages, manipulation, extreme paranoia and controlling behavior because it is affecting my relationship with my husband and child. I finally felt like I was at a good point in my life--generally happy, managing my own anxiety, OCD, losing weight.  However, my anxiety is starting to return and I think I will have to go back to therapy if I don't set new boundaries or cut her off completely.  I spent this morning crying to my husband and later my best friend about the guilt I felt just hanging up on my mother last night to avoid her rage, anger and pronouncements that she prays to god that he will just let her die because she is sick of dealing with the people around her. She is in her early 70s and only seems to be getting worse.  Her mother probably had BPD and lived until her early 90s making everyone around her miserable until the bitter end.  I can't do this for another 20+ years. 

I guess I am joining this support site because I don't know what to do now. I plan to read the posts on setting boundaries, but honestly short of her dying, I don't think I want to interact with her any more until she gets professional help.  Which I have suggested, and she has refused for a number of reasons.  My son is starting to notice her behavior and can see the difference between his two grandmothers!  I feel guilty about depriving him of a grandparent, but I can't see anything good coming out of their relationship. 

How do you determine when it is time or appropriate to go no contact?

[choca75]

I am 41 years old and have been in therapy from college until my early 30s to help me deal with OCD, anxiety and guilt that I have discovered is primarily related to being the daughter of a mother with undiagnosed BPD. Not sure if this forum using these categories, but my mother has the traits of a Hermit/Queen.  I am married and have a 10 year old son.  I have practiced limited contact before having a child and controlled contact with my mother after having a child to manage our toxic relationship.  Growing up, my brother was the good child and I the bad child.  This changed when my brother left for college and asserted himself and I became the good child.  I have been maintaining this role for the last 10-15 years. 

I am now considering no contact because I can no longer contain/manage her rages, manipulation, extreme paranoia and controlling behavior because it is affecting my relationship with my husband and child. I finally felt like I was at a good point in my life--generally happy, managing my own anxiety, OCD, losing weight.  However, my anxiety is starting to return and I think I will have to go back to therapy if I don't set new boundaries or cut her off completely.  I spent this morning crying to my husband and later my best friend about the guilt I felt just hanging up on my mother last night to avoid her rage, anger and pronouncements that she prays to god that he will just let her die because she is sick of dealing with the people around her. She is in her early 70s and only seems to be getting worse.  Her mother probably had BPD and lived until her early 90s making everyone around her miserable until the bitter end.  I can't do this for another 20+ years. 

I guess I am joining this support site because I don't know what to do now. I plan to read the posts on setting boundaries, but honestly short of her dying, I don't think I want to interact with her any more until she gets professional help.  Which I have suggested, and she has refused for a number of reasons.  My son is starting to notice her behavior and can see the difference between his two grandmothers!  I feel guilty about depriving him of a grandparent, but I can't see anything good coming out of their relationship. 

How do you determine when it is time or appropriate to go no contact?

[Panda39]

Hi choca75,

Welcome to the BPD Family   

I'm sorry to hear you are struggling so much with your relationship with your mom.  You are not alone that's for sure, we who have a BPD person in our lives "get it".

I'm on this site because of my SO's (significant other's) uBPDxw (undiagnosed BPD ex-wife) and I would describe her as a Queen/Hermit as well... ."it's my way or the  highway" and then "poor poor pitiful me".

I don't know if I have the answer to your question because each individual and each situation is different.  But I did want to say that whatever you decide it doesn't have to be forever, you are allowed to change your mind, and change the level of contact... .it doesn't have to be all or nothing forever.

My SO's daughters (D16 & D20) are low contact with their mother these days.  For them it took their mother doing something horrendous to each of them in 2015 that made them vote with their feet and move in with their dad full-time... .setting a physical boundary. 

D20 went across the country to college her mother promising that a "family trust" would pay for her tuition and D20 who really wanted to go believed her mother despite her father's objections.  She went to school for a semester and was asked not to return due to lack of payment and she is now in debt to that school to the tune of $15,000.  She will not speak to her mother, blocked her on facebook, changed her phone number, very occasionally communicates via email, and has seen her maybe 3 times in the last 2 years and it never seems to go well when she does. 

D20 with reason is very angry and does not trust her mother for her almost no contact is what she has to do for herself (but I also think there is an aspect of punishment here too... .that maybe isn't that healthy). D20 does not see a therapist we wish she would to work through some of this but she has chosen not to do so.

UBPDmom sent D16 went to a summer camp in Wisconsin 2014 (we weren't sure how she came up with the $5,000 to pay for it). D16 loved it, made new friends, and had a wonderful time. Mom promised to send her the next year.  Again we wondered how she was paying for this... .but she put D16 (14 at the time) on the plane to Wisconsin and to camp, or so we thought.  Several days later we get a call from her and she isn't at camp she is at the house of one of uBPDmom's family friends and isn't at camp at all.  One way plane ticket, staying with someone she doesn't know, camp not paid for and no way home!  With the help of her grandfather and uncle we got her back home.  Not only was camp in 2015 not paid for but neither had camp in 2014!  D16 suffers from PTSD... .needless to say this trip was very stressful and disappointing for her.

D16 has more contact with her mom via phone calls, texts and occasional trips for lunch or coffee.  Even though her mother has disappointed her D16 still wants some relationship with her... .she is her mom, even if she isn't the ideal mom.  D16 is in therapy which I think helps her work through things,helped her to be better able to set boundaries and has helped her be able cope with the low contact she has with her mom.

So you see different people, different situations, and different choices even between 2 sisters with the same uBPDmom.

Going back to therapy both to manage your anxiety and work through the level of contact you want or don't want with your mom might be a good idea... .it certainly couldn't hurt.

Can you give an example of how you have practiced limited contact?  How close do you live to her? How is her behavior towards your son?

I spent this morning crying to my husband and later my best friend about the guilt I felt just hanging up on my mother last night to avoid her rage, anger and pronouncements that she prays to god that he will just let her die because she is sick of dealing with the people around her. 

That darn guilt!  I see it with my SO's daughter's too.  People with BPD seem to be masters at emotional blackmail... .we call it FOG (Fear, Obligation, Guilt)

Hanging up on verbal abuse is completely appropriate but I know that's a hard thing to do when it's your mom.

Here is a link to more information on FOG... .

https://bpdfamily.com/content/emotional-blackmail-fear-obligation-and-guilt-fog

I'm glad you've found us and decided to jump in an post.  This is a great place for support, ideas, tools, and sometimes just a place to vent.

Take Care,  
Panda39

[choca75]

Thank you for responding Panda39!  I appreciate the example of your SO's daughters.  It helps to hear how other people handle this type of relationship.  Sometimes, I wonder if this is real or normal--meaning I go between thinking that everyone has a mother like this and other times I am the problem and I am exaggerating what it is like to grow up with a parent like this. Luckily I have a brother that validates my experience and a friend since childhood that witnessed the abuse.

During college I left my hometown to put a significant distance between me and my mother and moved to a city a long way away.  She is afraid of cities so I knew she wouldn't visit me. Unfortunately, my mother now lives about 2.5 hours away from me in another state.  This has made limited contact an issue. My brother has moved half way across the country to avoid her and never plans to come back.  I practiced limited contact by only seeing her on Christmas and talking to her about once a month on the phone.  After having my son, this has increased to major holidays and she likes to visit every other month to see her grandson. This is how she frames it, but in reality she doesn't spend any time with him or talk to him when she is here.  She spends most of her time complaining about how everyone is out to get her, doesn't understand her and how lonely she is because no one visits her anymore (she has 5 brothers, countless cousins and church members!). She is isolated--lives in the country--and doesn't really have friends because at some point they do something against her and she drops them or they distance themselves from her.

She also expects to talk over the phone once a week, but text me obsessively.  Because of this increased contact, I am having a difficult time avoiding triggers that I react to and avoiding her rage/outbursts of anger that comes without any warning.  For years while my son was younger she was able to control herself in front of him and my husband because she is always concerned about her appearance and how she is perceived by others.  However, recently she has started to show her true self in front of my husband and talk about inappropriate stuff in front of my son who now can understand what she is talking about.  By inappropriate, I mean talking about topics that make her paranoid or upset like crime, rape, terrorism, etc. that are inappropriate to talk about in front of a 10 year old.  When I ask her to be mindful of his presence in the room, she goes nuclear. She also starting to be directly critical to my son about his perceived bad behavior because she thinks I am a bad parent.  She is also jealous of my husband's mother because she lives with us in a separate MIL suite.  It is amazing to me that they are so different.  My MIL is great, helpful and loving to her grandson.  However, my mother is getting worse because I think she sees her flaws in comparison to my MIL. 

I think you are correct that seeing a therapist again can't hurt.  I can't go back to my severe anxiety and OCD behavior.  I owe myself, son and husband that. 

[gotbushels]

Hi choca75 

I join Panda39 welcoming you here.   

You can find support here. Yes, this forum does sometimes use the categories of Hermit and Queen.

I do think what Panda said here is very true:

You are not alone that's for sure, we who have a BPD person in our lives "get it".

This is especially so given you said this:

Sometimes, I wonder if this is real or normal--meaning I go between thinking that everyone has a mother like this and other times I am the problem and I am exaggerating what it is like to grow up with a parent like this.

I understand that feeling of strangeness when something feels so different to others' experiences that we start to question what's real or normal. The idea of living with a BPD parent is very unusual and it's therefore hard for us to find examples of healthy management of this person. We lack easy shades of grey to follow.

I find there's self-compassion here when we start to realise how difficult it may be for the non to find that sweet spot with a given person with BPD traits. I do encourage hope in you because I do think that things get much better once you find ways that work for you to manage yourself as well as your relationship with her.

I really feel I understand the MIL vs mother thing!

It is amazing to me that they are so different.

When I observed something like what you described, I thought one person's behaviour was clear as water, the other like black oil.

I think you are correct that seeing a therapist again can't hurt.  I can't go back to my severe anxiety and OCD behavior.  I owe myself, son and husband that. 

I have some understanding of how living with a pwBPD parent and OCD traits has a link for you. How did you handle this?

From what I get about the Hermit mother, a theme in their life is that "life is too dangerous". This is compatible with what you describe when you talk about the mother showing her true self. If your child is being exposed to messages like this, I think it will serve you well do be mindful of having conversations in front of him. Children are sensitive to cues from parent-figures and they are often still developing parts of their brain for the first 10 years. Consider the consequences of exposing a young person to unmanaged and harmful BPD traits over a long period of time.

Regarding reducing your contact with her, I think it's important to know your why. Hermit mothers are thought to undermine the self-esteem of the no-good child. If the adult child feels that this is becoming too much to handle, then I do think the adult child is the one responsible to choose the amount of reduction in contact. It's important to be conscious of this because I do think that a lot of this undermining happens unconsciously. If your reaction to the negative comments from your mother are significantly affecting your wellbeing, then that would add to your reasons to reducing contact with her.

Something practical you can use regarding your increased contact with her is to set yourself clear limits before the conversation. E.g., you have a right to not talk about parenting. Or setting a time limit of 30 minutes. You can look at brief and friendly statements to emphasise your rights. Play it through and rehearse it if you can. I've done similar things and it helped me a lot.

One specific right that may help you is that you have a right as an adult to say no without having to justify your choice.

I hope during this time you find peace and self-compassion.

[imua]

I don't have a good answer, but I also feel guilt when dealing with my sibling with BPD. I want to cut ties, too. It's crippling.

[choca75]

Thank you gotbushels for welcoming me to the board!  I decided to join because I needed to hear from people that get it.  To answer your question about OCD--I did cognitive behavioral therapy for about 2 years to get control of my behavior.  Until you linked the Hermit type behavior with OCD in your post I had never considered the connection! I didn't talk about the source of my behavior in CBT--only worked on the behaviors and strategies to stop it. 

[choca75]

I don't have a good answer, but I also feel guilt when dealing with my sibling with BPD. I want to cut ties, too. It's crippling.

Yes, the guilt is terrible.  Sorry you have to go through this with a sibling.  I don't think people in general realize how crippling guilt can be.

[gotbushels]

Very interesting. I'm glad to hear you've found some control over the OCD. I understand that can be difficult to live with--many people struggle with it.

I decided to join because I needed to hear from people that get it. 

Yes this was a big pull for me. As I understood how BPD traits operate in relationships, I realised the conversations didn't necessarily move forward--or they weren't productive. For example--for pwBPDs in a family--a BPD mother can seem "loving" when taken out from context. When an outside observer attempts to look at the situation out of the appropriate context, then the adult child looks like the "bad" person.

How is everything going for you so far?