How do you deal with suicidal threats?

[BeagleGirl]

Definitely lost my "red dress" feelings for a while today.  My counselor called to caution me that my BPD husband is talking about suicidal thoughts.  While this could be an attempt to draw me back in (since he is picking up on my continued and increasing distance from him), I don't know how I couldn't take this seriously.

I am dealing with some anger over what his threats are doing to me and some guilt over not really caring what happens to him.  Mostly, I am feeling like I need to protect my S14 and S18.  I moved out of our family home and agreed to my hwBPD being the primary parent for my S14 because I (at the time) felt I had no choice.  I travel 1-3 nights a week for work and that's what keeps food on the table and a roof (now 2 roofs) over our heads.

After hearing from our counselor today I have pulled out of a special leadership development program that I was just starting.  I struggle a bit with feeling like this is another thing my husband is taking from me, but I mostly know that I need to do what is best for my children, and putting career advancement on the back burner is a small price to pay for being able to be available for them. 

My questions are:
Am I overreacting to his suicidal comments to our counselor?
Am I underreacting to his suicidal comments?
What are some things that I can/should do to protect my S14 from the impact of any potential suicide threats or attempts?
Is there any point in me letting my husband know that I'm aware of his suicide related comments?
Should I start getting ready to take on more/full custody of our S14 to keep him more insulated from my husband's actions? (I believe the suicidal talk stems from fear or losing our marriage and I fear that "taking away" our S14 would only add fuel to the fire)
Have any of you dealt with this type of situation and have some wisdom to share from your exerience?
Thanks,
BeagleGirl

[formflier]

Am I overreacting to his suicidal comments to our counselor?

I think you need to schedule an "emergency" or "urgent" meeting with her to discuss this.  This is NOT an area for miscommunication.

Did you ask her this question?  I can understand if you did not, that a state of shock (and a zillion other emotions) can make it hard to think.

Did the suicidal threats get made to the counselor and counselor only?  This is what is sounds like.  I'm also assuming your counselor is properly credentialed and licensed mental health professional.

If that is the case, then I would follow their lead and SPECIFIC direction on what to do if he make those threats to you.  Let them use their training to decide what to do if threats are made to them.

Am I underreacting to his suicidal comments?

I wouldn't even want to hint at an opinion on this, without clearly understanding the opinion of the counselor. 

My basic advice is to take all threats made to you seriously and YOU should act on them BECAUSE you don't have the professional training to properly assess and handle them.

I'm assuming your counselor does.

What are some things that I can/should do to protect my S14 from the impact of any potential suicide threats or attempts?

Again... .ask the counselor for specific direction.  Ask if you should prepare them ahead of time (which would likely be traumatic) and then potentially never happen. 

Is there any point in me letting my husband know that I'm aware of his suicide related comments?

Ask the counselor. 

Absent specific direction from the counselor I would NOT let the husband know ANYTHING the counselor has shared with you.  ANYTHING.  If the counselor wants the hubby to know something, let them reveal.


Should I start getting ready to take on more/full custody of our S14 to keep him more insulated from my husband's actions? (I believe the suicidal talk stems from fear or losing our marriage and I fear that "taking away" our S14 would only add fuel to the fire)


Preparation is ALWAYS a good thing.  Done privately.  Taking action is where the real wisdom lies.  If you feel unprepared about any part of your situation, privately preparing, especially under the direction of the counselor, is likely a good thing.

Have any of you dealt with this type of situation and have some wisdom to share from your exerience?

Luckily the answer is no for my personal relationship.  In my professional relationships (Navy), the answer is unfortunately yes.  I have ordered several individuals to "med hold" for evaluation based on suicide threats or even hints.  Zero tolerance... .no... .nada... zip... .

The reason is that I'm not a doctor. 

There have also been times when I have sent people that are "clearly distraught" but have not made any hints or suicidal statements.

Granted, in the military there can be unusually stressful circumstances (compared to civilian life) and our protocols get tested often.

I will also say that getting cleared out of "med hold" is not a "black mark" against you.  If you don't get cleared... .then there are bigger issues than worrying about "black marks" on your record.




My advice would be different if there was NOT a counselor involved.  It would mean a lot to me if you could share the counselors direction with us... .or... .if you don't have specific direction, that you seek that immediately.

[BeagleGirl]

Thank you FF.  You often have me smacking my head in the universal "why didn't I think of that?" symbol. 

I am contacting my counselor to get clarity from her and will also discuss this with our pastor.  I'll let you know what I learn.

[formflier]

I hate assuming things... .

I don't remember seeing anything where you questioned your counselor's abilities or qualifications or any of that.

So... my assumption is that she told you so there might not be as much shock if he does one to you... .or... .to check and see if it jogged your memory and you remembered "hints".

Who knows?

Perhaps you were a bit in shock and didn't process everything that was being said.

You are on the right track... .get some clarity.  I would ask if she considered them "serious" or "hinting".

I would also ask specific questions about what you should do if he says "You know... it's just not worth it anymore... .all the effort... "

Said without any other info... .that's not much.  Said by someone who has recently made credible suicide threats to a mental health professional... .and... that professional needs to know about it.

I would also ask the question  "When should I call 911?" 

FF

[Lucky Jim]

Hello again, BeagleGirl, Yes, I've dealt with it.  My BPDxW threatened suicide 12-15 times over the last five years of our marriage and I still shudder to think about it.  Your situation, however, is a little different because you are hearing about it second-hand, from your counselor, whereas my Ex made her threats directly to me.  I concur that contacting your counselor and pastor are both good ideas.  Even though I thought my Ex's threats were a cry for help, or crying wolf for attention, there's that small percentage of people who follow through with threats, which was always in the back of my mind.  I'm happy to share more of my experience in this area if you might find it helpful.  The bottom line is: if it gets to a point where you think your H is serious about taking his life, then you need to call 911.

LuckyJim

[BeagleGirl]

Thank you FF and LuckyJim.

I had some wonderful conversations with both my pastor and my counselor.  My pastor has done an incredible turn around in the past few months from "If you would just affirm your husband's manhood more and apply the biblical principles for being a Godly wife, you wouldn't be having these problems" to honestly supporting both my husband and I to the best of his ability and accepting and even encouraging the actions I am taking that were previously perceived as a dangerous road to divorce and damnation (my words, not his).  I know this is an answer to fervent prayers on the part of myself and my counselor.

That said, here is what I took away from my conversation with my pastor:
He will not share with my hwBPD that I have heard about his suicidal thinking and encourages me not to do so either.  He also is encouraging me to avoid doing things that would encourage the continued manipulation and dependency my hwBPD has on me.  He will reach out to my S14 with more than just an offer of a listening ear if my son needs it (because what 14 year old is going to be the one to pursue that conversation?); something like "Hey (S14), I'm going to take you to coffee and we are going to talk about how you are feeling about your parent's separation".  He will continue to pray for me, specifically that I have the discernment to know when there is actual danger.

My counselor affirmed the things I shared from my conversation with my pastor and clarified that she does have real concerns that my hwBPD could reach a point of desperation and anger where the threats would be valid.  As he has not yet made any statements or threats to me, I should probably not say anything to him about what I've heard from our counselor, but be prepared for escalation.  She also gave me some very good guidance on how to address the risk of suicide with him if he does make threats directly to me or if there is an opening to talk about it as a theoretical possibility based on his BPD diagnosis.  Things she suggested stating:
1.  I can acknowledge that I and our sons would be saddened by his death and would grieve for a time.
2.  I understand that his suicide would not be my fault and I would not feel responsible for his choice to end his life.
3.  After a period of grieving, my sons and I would move on with our lives.  I would likely remarry if God brought the right man into my life.  Our sons will likely marry and have children.  I will enjoy my DILs and grandchildren fully.
4.  By giving up on life, he would miss out on meeting his DILs and grandchildren, among other joys that he has yet to experience.

She also encouraged me to "go with my gut" as far as determining if/when to pull S14 out of the house and call 911.  I would much rather respond to a false alarm than risk exposing my child to that kind of pain, so I feel comfortable with leaving it at that for now. 

Even before these conversations, I was making choices for my children and myself.  I exercised and ate.  I called the coordinator of the leadership program I had just started and let them know that I, regretfully, had to drop out to take care of my family needs.  I took care of the "burning" emails and phone calls for work.  I felt my "red dress" self returning.  In a way, that's how I know that I could make those statements about the impact of suicide to my husband (especially about not feeling responsible for his choice and being able to move on and live life fully) with honesty and conviction. 

LuckyJim,
I would love your feedback on the advice I have been given.

[Grey Kitty]

Suicide and suicidal ideation are serious stuff. Do take it seriously.

This site has a general article with best practices here:
https://bpdfamily.com/discussions/search-info3.htm

One important thing about supporting somebody who is suicidal is to get professional help / urge them to get professional help.

The counselor who told you about it *IS* a professional, and is the only person you've heard about his suicidal thoughts from. I actually think it is kinda irresponsible of the counselor to tell you about it without giving you clear guidance on the best practices regarding what you should be doing for your husband.

I'd encourage you to call his counselor back and ask for guidance, with questions like FF suggested.

Regarding your children, I don't think talking to them about it is a good idea unless they are hearing suicidal thoughts from their dad directly... .if they are, they probably need support to deal with that.

As for yourself--It is possible your H would use suicidal thoughts/threats as a way to manipulate you, but if he's not telling you about them, he obviously isn't doing that. I'd suggest you set worries about that aside for now--If that is an issue, it will be because it is an ongoing thing, and giving him the benefit of the doubt now seems like the right thing to do.

Edit: Cross-posted with you, BG, and what you are doing and hearing from the counselor sounds good to me.

[formflier]

Check with your local 911 and see if they have a "text to 911" capability.

Some places make you register first.  That would allow you to casually tap your phone for help, while staying engaged with your husband.

The first (and hopefully last time) you ever experience that with him... .he will likely be none the wiser.

Picking up your phone and calling 911 would likely fire him up a bit.  Note:  If it is appropriate to call and that is your only option... .call.  Let him get more fired up... .or not.

But... imagine the surprise if he has been saying suicidal things, doesn't notice you tap your phone (or even if he does)... .then uniformed guys show up at front door.

At that point... .the professionals get to deal with him... .and you can withdraw.

FF