Has she cured herself?

[itsallabout]

Hi,
This is my first post so please be gentle with me :P

I have known my partner for years. When we first met she was would drink all the time and sleep with lots of different men, and even perform certain sex acts in front of people and in public places. She was not on medication and I could see at that time that she was dangerous and I would be setting myself up for a lot of pain if I was to attempt to date her.

Fast forward to 4 years later and I decided to contact her again to see how she was. Even when we first knew each other we had loads in common and got on really well. I started meeting up with her to help her out because she was more or less doing a job that cost more than it paid and it was a job helping people. She has done many jobs that involve helping people and comes across as so sweet and caring and nice.

For the first few months of the relationship everything was just perfect and we saw each other every day and even moved in together quickly. This girl had been in various long term relationships and many many many sexual partners and I never really knew her to ever be alone. Around 2 years ago she was raped and after spending a lot of time at home and on her own she seems like a different person. She gave up drinking and drugs and says she hasn't been with someone since what happened.

During the idealisation period she was just amazing. She would have occasional flare ups and then calm down and apologise an hour later. There were a few lies that she told me and to some extent I can imagine why she did it. One being how many people she had slept with, and how many of those people were one night stands.
She has said that she only cheated on one person in her past once, and with all the other lies she is likely to have told me I don't know whether or not to believe that. I have been cheated on before and I can't ever feel that again.

The devaluation started about 5 months in and I have been constantly trying to make up for it since and sometimes there seems like hope.
During the first few months she was relatively grateful, complimentary, self sufficient (or at least didn't openly ask for money), more or less great.
Since the devaluation she has never raged or screamed or got violent or anything like that, but has just been colder and doesn't miss me like she used to, and says she still loves me.
Something that bothers me is the self awareness she seems to have with certain things. Pre-devaluation she would see what she was doing was hurtful or wrong or asking too much or being unreasonable, but since then it's all gone the other way. Now in devaluation, no matter what I do she still feels off in the way she acts towards me. I read her messages and see the words written down and I confront her that it feels like a connection is lost and she denies it. She tells me she's working really hard to save the relationship and I don't know if she is lying and trying to maintain emotional and financial support, and then I consider that she was 'alone' for 2 years and coped fine without anyone. The other day we almost had a mutual breakup where I said ":)o you think we should be together?" to which she replied "I don't know".

Self aware behaviours:
Before dating she openly told me she had BPD - I could easily look up on the internet and demonise her
She would apologise for acting our of turn
Working in jobs helping people - for the low pay, why would she pretend to have empathy just for that

I'm really struggling to understand if she could have actually changed. She doesn't seem like the impulsive girl that she used to be and I really want to believe everything she says. She never had DBT or anything but seems so much more in control than she was when I met her 4 years ago. Having known a previous boyfriend of hers, she used to tell him he was spending too much time with a friend of his and to choose between him and her. And also would cry after sex. She has never said or did those things with me and actively encourages me to do more. I'm so confused. She is on ssri's now so i'm sure that curbs the mood swings to some extent. I just don't know if I can trust her and whether she may actually love me.

Please help

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[Naughty Nibbler]

Hey itsallabout:   
Welcoming to the Community!

Has she cured herself? 

Not everone with BPD has the exact set of circumstances and behavior.  BPD can have genetic cause, environmental causes or a combination of both.  Commonly, BPD doesn't stand alone and people start out with issues like: depression, anxiety, ADHD, bipolar and a variety/combination of other mental disorders. 

You indicate that she is taking an antidepressant. It's likely, that for her, it has evened out her moods and the result has been better behavior.  Hopefully, she gets many years of successful results with the meds. For some people, a certain med can quit working for them, or they stop taking the meds because of side effects.

When people talk about BPD being cured, it is likely that someone is successfully managing the condition in such a way that they no longer exhibit the number of traits that qualify for the diagnosis.  Medication alone can't change someone with poor communication skills and a low level of emotional intelligence and self soothing skills.  For the long run, although some people with a BPD diagnosis (or strong traits), may have periods of time when they can act more normal, stressful life events can bring back BPD behaviors.  Things like job loss, job change, job stress, the birth of a child, the death of someone near you or moving can cause a lot of stress. 

You have to anticipate that at least some of the prior behaviors will resurface at some point in the future. Pills can help set the stage to learn coping skills, but they can't instill them in someone. 

Having known a previous boyfriend of hers, she used to tell him he was spending too much time with a friend of his and to choose between him and her.

The same situation is likely to repeat with you in the future.  If someone has a jealous and controlling nature, I don't think a pill will fix that for the long run (with or without a personality disorder).  Some people are good at holding behaviors at bay, until there is a ring on their finger. 

If you read enough posts, you will read many stories where behavior changed after the marriage, after a couple moved in together, etc.  In most cases, past behavior is an indicator of future behavior (maybe not this week or next month, but eventually). 

Just pointing out the worst situations.  Best to determine what you want for the future, and where you would like the relationship to go.  If children aren't a possibility (planned or unplanned), it's an easier decision.  Also, if children are possible, mental illness can be passed on genetically to children.  Even if a mental illness is not passed on genetically, the effects of having a parent with a personality disorder can do a lot of harm to a child.

In conclusion, best to anticipate that the worst could happen, and that some strong BPD traits can resurface in the future.  Most people eventually decide that they would rather have a partner that is less attractive, exciting, sexy, etc. in exchange for a healthy relationship with a more stable partner with higher level of emotional intelligence.


 

[itsallabout]

Thanks for the reply naughty nibbler

I have to admit it wasn't exactly what I was hoping to hear :P

In the first 5 months of the relationship I was so wrapped up in her that I couldn't imagine anything better than marrying her and having children. She does definitely want a child, basically now, and has been pressuring me to get engaged to her. More worrying is that she says she cannot use medical birth control, and hates condoms and wants to rely on withdrawal and 'luck' :S Truth be told I am very co-dependent and when it came to talk of marriage and moving in I think it was even me that came up with the idea.

In the first 5 months I trusted her completely and probably didn't research BPD properly until the devaluing took place. Once it did I looked into it and the general perception is that no matter how different she seems, she is still going to be devious, untrustworthy, and volatile and tricking me into believing what she wants me to.

I would like to get married and have kids for sure, and what I really would have wanted was for this girl to be the one. If I thought that all I would have to deal with would be some controlling behaviour and the occasional emotional flare up then that's more or less what I would expect from a regular relationship. The idea that she would regularly cheat and then divorce me and take my money is a huge worry.

In terms of jealousy and control I would say that at this point that more applies to me. Until I found out more about BPD nothing really crossed my mind about the deception part and now i'm the one frantically worrying about what is going on.

If all she wanted from me was a lifelong partner to live with her on a desert island then I would do that. I really enjoy her company. It just depends whether she is trying to destroy me or just looking for someone to take care of her.

In my head I would love to believe that she has slept with enough people to not want to do it again, and that the person she is selling me is the real person that she was all along but struggled with her identity up until age 26.

Another thing that bothers me is that she says she doesn't regret anything from her past and that life is too short. When I tell her that she is a different person now, she agrees and thanks me for 'realising' it.

Her history includes abandonment as a child by her father who left her mother with no money, who has remained single for 27 years. She has tried to kill herself around 10 times. And the rape 2 years ago.
Her impulsive behaviour took the form of drink driving and most likely the sex with strangers. Perhaps the one thing she has admitted she is ashamed of was the drink driving.
Now she seems content with quiet and non dangerous activities such as tv, video games, and bingo. She doesn't feel the urge to go out clubbing or do any wild behaviour, or so I believe.
Her emotions are still unstable now and she will occasionally flit between being apologetic and then blaming me.
In terms of the co-dependent behaviours and being clingy I am much worse for that. Pre-devaluing she wanted to spend as much time with me as I did with her. Since then it's been a lot more one sided.

Because I now almost know too much about sociopaths and BPD I can't help but feel every one of her actions and traits can be traced to something nefarious and I'm finding it difficult to know whether or not the person I love is real.

[Naughty Nibbler]

She does definitely want a child, basically now, and has been pressuring me to get engaged to her. More worrying is that she says she cannot use medical birth control, and hates condoms and wants to rely on withdrawal and 'luck' :S Truth be told I am very co-dependent and when it came to talk of marriage and moving in I think it was even me that came up with the idea.

"Withdrawal" is not a form of birth control. . .and "Luck?".  You are living dangerously.  You need to delve further into her claim to NOT be able to use "medical birth control".  There are a lot of options to choose from. Easy to understand that someone has had a problem with some form of birth control in the past, but highly unusual to have a problem with all of them?  Could it be that she just wants to get pregnant at any cost?  Best to validate the situation. How will you prevent pregnancy, after the first child (just keep leaving it to chance?) If she can't be totally honest about birth control, and have an honest discussion, then that is what you will have to look forward to with other issues.  

How did she NOT get pregnant in the past, with her sexual history (and lack of birth control and protection)?  Some women want to get pregnant, so that a man will marry them. If she won't allow condoms to be used, then how many STD's has she had?  A promiscuous partner (who cheats), and won't use condoms or birth control, could well bring you an STD and someone else's baby.

Just a heads up. Depending on what antidepressant she is taking, it could be contraindicated for use during pregnancy (or at least at certain stages) It is something that needs to be evaluated.  Hormonal fluctuations during/after pregnancy can have an impact on someone with depression and/or anxiety (commonly comorbid with BPD). What appears as emotional stability now, could change negatively during pregnancy.

The idea that she would regularly cheat and then divorce me and take my money is a huge worry.

Unfortunately, many people run into huge legal fees and financial loss, when they have to deal with divorce and child custody battles when they split up with a BPD partner

Her history includes abandonment as a child by her father who left her mother with no money, who has remained single for 27 years. She has tried to kill herself around 10 times. And the rape 2 years ago.

Her emotions are still unstable now and she will occasionally flit between being apologetic and then blaming me.

Did you partner have 10 suicide attempts, or was it her mother?

The blaming behavior is a typical BPD behavior.  Is that something you can live with?  It will likely continue.

Because I now almost know too much about sociopaths and BPD I can't help but feel every one of her actions and traits can be traced to something nefarious and I'm finding it difficult to know whether or not the person I love is real.

Step back and evaluate your situation (and use something to prevent a pregnancy while you evaluate). Do your homework on birth control menthods. Then, check your understanding on what specific methods she has tried and what the problems were. Find out which antidepressant she is on and do some research on possible issues with using it during pregnancy.  A baby can't make things better.  It will make things more challenging.  The thought of a baby appeals to her, but the reality of a baby might escalate BPD behaviors.

It could be well worth your time and money to seek some individual counseling at this time.  You say you are co-dependent.  A co-dependent person commonly pairs with a BPD person for a dysfunctional relationship. The co-dependent person then serves the role of caretaker and rescuer.  Is that what you want out of life?  Can you see yourself growing old with your partner?  

Now is the time to ask yourself the hard questions?  :)on't be passive and just let her get pregnant and then marry her, because she is pregnant.  Not using any form of birth control or protection is passively agreeing with her plan to get pregnant and marry.

Best to start learning some skills that can improve communications with your BPD partner.  It could be helpful for you to review the communication lessons/tutorials.  There are several in the right-hand margin.  There is, also, a "lessons" thread, at the top of the thread lineup.  The large green banner, at the top of the page has a "Tools Menu", as well as other links to helpful information.  The communication skills can make it easier for you by improving the way you interact with your partner and the way you react to her.

I know you have a lot to consider.  A co-dependent person generally will just go with the flow.  I hope you choose to set out of co-dependent habits and evaluate your situation and options.  Take the time needed and the steps needed to consider what you future (and child rearing) will be like with your partner.