The Ex just texted me. Do I respond? If so, How?

[Doughboy]

So we started the split end of March.  Totally done mid-April.  In between I made payments to her Attorney totaling $1200. 
In a moment of weakness I made a $200 payment to her Attorney in mid-May.  Memorial day we talked and she said it would be 'best for me" if we never communicated again.

Well her Attorney statement just arrived and she texted me asking if I made a payment.

Not sure if I should just ignore her text OR if I should just reply "Yes" and nothing else.

Don't want to reopen the door to get blamed or yelled at, etc.  Also don't want to look like a callous asshat?

Any help would be appreciated!


To be 100% honest... .I am not 100% done with this relationship.  I do not think she is either but... .as of now we are done and she asked for no more communication.  That is why this seems odd to me.  I am the only person in 3 years besides herself that has paid on that Attorney bill.  Of course it was me!  There was no reason to ask/send the text.  I feel like I am being set up if I respond... .

[Rayban]

Dude why are you paying her attorney?

[Doughboy]

Dude why are you paying her attorney?

The first money was out of guilt.  Some legit and some projected on me.  The other was a moment of weakness/stupidity.  I was paying my monthly bills and it was set as a reminder. As I was hanging up with them I "said" to myself... ."Why did you just do that?".  At that point it was too late... .

Mistake was made and I can admit it.  That is why I am asking now about the text.  Don't want o open a can of worms if I can avoid it.  I just see no reason to respond since it is obvious I made the payment in May.  Just not 100% sure why she texted to ask?  As I said, I feel it was sent with the hopes that I respond so I can get berated for doing something I shouldn't have done.

 

[Rayban]

Ok well you realize that you're paying her attorney fees  while she asks you not to contact her.  I would venture to say that while you're paying her bills, she's out with some other guy, and doesn't want to be interrupted by you.

My advice to you is stop enabling her.  Between paying her debts to giving her access to your savings account, what reason are you giving her to change?

If you're not willing to walk away then you might get better suited advice on the Saving a Relationship board. 

As far as what to answer,  well you have to decide if you want to detach or go in for another round. Don't expect her to appreciate what you're doing for her. She'll just take advantage. Next thing you know you'll be buying her furniture to enjoy with somone else. That's just my opinion for what it's worth.  You can't buy love.

[Doughboy]

Ok well you realize that you're paying her attorney fees  while she asks you not to contact her.

The payment was before the final no contact call, fwiw.

My advice to you is stop enabling her.  Between paying her debts to giving her access to your savings account, what reason are you giving her to change?

She has to choose to use the ATM card. I don't think she will but she has had 7ish weeks to shred it or send it back. She mentioned as recently as last Monday she needed to send it back.  That means she did not destroy it way back when I gave her that option.  That card is at most a $500 gamble to see what she really thinks she can do on her own.  I can risk that to see if she swallows her pride because ahe will know I know if she uses it.

If you're not willing to walk away then you might get better suited advice on the Saving a Relationship board. 

Correct. Not 100% willing. Should be but I am not. Getting there though.  She has said she is done so I need to be working on that detaching thing which is why I posted here.  I am making progress every day.

[Anez]

Don't reply, stop paying, and work toward being 100 percent done with this relationship, no matter how hard the thought of that is. These rekationshiis are addictions and at some point we gotta make the right choice to put down the bottle and make choices that are good for us.

It's rough, I know. But we deserve it.

[Rayban]

Ox

It will never be enough.  If at this point she can't/isn't capable of realizing  that you care for her to the point of helping her out financially, when you have no obligation to do so.

She'll eventually accuse you of controlling her through money. She'll keep on playing until you put the ball down and stop playing.  Accepting to go on is her expecting you to shell out more. That guilt you felt when you made that  $200 payment is what she will use to guilt you into helping her out again.

If you won't well she'll  find somebody else willing to barter their soul. I believe that if you have to play detective to your partner then it isn't a relationship worth being in.

Every time you log in to download your transactions, seeing if she used the card is time spent thinking of her. If she does or doesn't use the card, the end result is the same. You're still connected to her.

I wouldn't respond. Who else would make a payment? It's her wanting for you to open dialogue with admitting that you made the payment. She wants you to tell her how much she means to you. I would have been open to a thanks for making the payment.  In stead she just throws the ball in your court.

[Turkish]

It seems to me like you are testing her (to elicit a response),  especially with the ATM card. Am I off base in seeing it like this?

[Doughboy]

It seems to me like you are testing her (to elicit a response),  especially with the ATM card. Am I off base in seeing it like this?

I am not really sure.  She claims she will never use it.  I tend to agree with her on this.  7ish weeks ago I told her to keep the card for emergencies if she needed it.  She she said she would not need/use it.  I said to go ahead and shred it then since I never took cash from my savings through the ATM... .no need to mail it back.  She said nothing.

Fast forward to Memorial Day when she said on the phone that she needed to get the card back to me.  I  told her to keep the card for emergencies if she needed it.  She she said she would not need/use it.  I said to go ahead and shred it then since I never took cash from my savings through the ATM... .no need to mail it back.  She said nothing.  <-- Notice that the conversation was exactly the same...

The truth is that I really do not need the card, it is stupid to mail it back when she can shred it herself, and if she would go crazy with it I can always go online and cancel the card.  Maybe I look at it as her testing herself to stay honest to her word that she will never use it.  Hell, for all I know she really did finally shred it.  

Unlike so many here, I do not not honestly see her ever reaching out for help, a relationship, or even to be friends.  She is far too stubborn and prideful to ever do that.  The other side is that I feel she is conflicted about things.  Mentioning the card, meaning she did not shred it in 7 weeks, contacting me to ask about the obvious Attorney payment, and the lingering "friend request" that she said last week she would decline because she was on facebook during our call but hasn't on facebook.

If I am testing her it is a very passive test as she is the one that will have to take actions to pass/fail.  I am just sitting here, 180 miles away, slowly moving forward with things.

That 180 miles makes things much different then many here.  There is zero chance I will run into her, shared friends here are 85% mine since she has lived away for so long, and she will not be back in my town to live for at least 3 yrs if she even moved at that point.  

Also, one of her sticking points between us was that I was not a Christian and that was not okay with her (It was fine when we got together both times and when she agreed to get Married but ultimately became an issue for her apparently) and that will not change for me.  Could she decide to accept that fact OR leave her Faith?  Sure, I guess, but I sincerely doubt it.

When I download transactions, like I just did, I can see my Savings balance.  It only changes on paydays when it goes up due to Direct Deposit.  If anything I am kinda happy when the number does not change because it means she is handling her situation.  She was much worse with money but we created a budget for her and and few other things that I hope she continues using going forward.  Her not needing anything means she is following that plan OR that she has someone else providing the stop gaps.  Either way she gone from my day to day and that is ultimately her choice.

There were enough negatives in the relationship that I could not go back without changes to prevent those issues and since she said that the only things she did wrong were reactions to what I did first I have no positive thoughts any changes would be made by her.

Maybe in some small way I AM trying to hold her "accountable" for her words regarding never using the ATM card and that she would decline the friend request?

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Ox,

I must say I'm in agreement with all that has been said, so here's my advice.  WHEN you are ready to let go and decide to move forward (which will come eventually, whether you decide to remain open to recycle at this point or not), some suggestions I have are these:

1 Take away your temptation to monitor her as this holds back your own progress so cancel the card and forget about it.
2 Cut contact in every way.
3 Pay out nothing further, whether asked to or not.  BPD relationships can be EXPENSIVE for enablers and the emotional cost is high enough without throwing away hard earned cash that isn't appreciated.

Right now though, I'd suggest a list of pros and cons about trying to revive the relationship and the same for detaching.  Be really honest with yourself about the impacts of both scenarios on your life, feelings, state of mind, bank balance, practical arrangements (bearing in mind the logistics of a long distance relationship over at least 3 years from what you say).  Listen to your gut.  It is probably already telling you what it would prefer for you to choose.  Only you can reach this decision and it sounds to me like some clarity and sense of direction at this stage is what you will benefit from first and foremost.  That way you can put all your energies into working towards something you feel is tangible.  It's so hard to feel torn and trust me in detaching we all feel torn and struggle with feelings of regret, grief and self criticism however if you truly think that detaching may not be for you at this stage then you need to neither send her nor yourself mixed messages.  I hope this helps.

Love and light x 

[Doughboy]

WHEN you are ready to let go and decide to move forward (which will come eventually, whether you decide to remain open to recycle at this point or not), some suggestions I have are these:

I feel like I am moving forward as I do not see her ever coming back or coming back in a way that would work for her, me, or us.  I am seeing a Counselor, I am improving my health, I am improving my communication, I am focusing on my Business, I am renewing/creating interests for me.  There is curiosity about her future but I think that stems more from the fact that I have known her and her family for over 30 yrs.  Of course there was a large gap in that time and I know her much more intimately then ever before.

1 Take away your temptation to monitor her as this holds back your own progress so cancel the card and forget about it.
2 Cut contact in every way.
3 Pay out nothing further, whether asked to or not.  BPD relationships can be EXPENSIVE for enablers and the emotional cost is high enough without throwing away hard earned cash that isn't appreciated.

1.  I can see it as a temptation but I would see the number either way.  I am mixed because i it stays the same she is staying honest and possibly responsible. If it goes down that would be sad, for her, but I can shut it off immediately.
2.  Since 4/23 there has been, in order, 1 text by her, 1 email by me, 1 email response by her, a call, and then this latest text by her.  No contact any other way unless you include the pending "friend request" that she claims to be declining.  That claim is one that I will leave on her as she said she was going to decline it.  I am not sure what to do about the last text from her but my Counselor emailed me and advised that I just respond with, "Yes, it was me, and it was a mistake on my part.  You know that and I know that.  Your asking was just a way to elicit a response after saying that we should not communicate going forward.  I would prefer that we go back to that no communication because, as you said, it is better for me."

Right now though, I'd suggest a list of pros and cons about trying to revive the relationship and the same for detaching.  Be really honest with yourself about the impacts of both scenarios on your life, feelings, state of mind, bank balance, practical arrangements (bearing in mind the logistics of a long distance relationship over at least 3 years from what you say).  Listen to your gut.  It is probably already telling you what it would prefer for you to choose.  Only you can reach this decision and it sounds to me like some clarity and sense of direction at this stage is what you will benefit from first and foremost.  That way you can put all your energies into working towards something you feel is tangible.  

I have already done this basically.  It is difficult because the columns change based on whether she admits to her faults and is willing to work on them and get some kind of real Therapy.  With no changes/admissions on her part there really is not a "Pro" column.  If there is that willingness in her then the "Pro" column comes into play and the "Con" column is all assumptions and guesses other then the lack of time we get to spend together... .that is a constant and it works out to be about 8-10 days a month based on past experience but I guess that could go up if there is work being done.

It's so hard to feel torn and trust me in detaching we all feel torn and struggle with feelings of regret, grief and self criticism however if you truly think that detaching may not be for you at this stage then you need to neither send her nor yourself mixed messages.  I hope this helps.

Not sure where I am sending a mixed message but I know she is, imo.  I have told her how I feel and that things could be better if we both worked on things that were issues.  I have also told her that I understand she is done and I am working on me, my Business, and my life now.  I have placed all of the balls in her court, per se.  

If she decides to acknowledge and make some changes down the road then we can see if I am available and still interested at that point.  If I am not then she can choose to continue with those changes and maybe her life will be better for her.  I know can't, and I do not plan to,  just sit in a chair and hope that she will come back.  That is foolish and I could wait decades for nothing.  I have too much to offer, in time, to another relationship to wait on her to have a realization that may never come.

Maybe I am talking out of both sides of my mouth and don't see it... .  Unlike many, she and our relationship, was not the totally toxic, dangerous, chaos that many encounter.  She has Traits, many of them, along with diag. depression and ADD.  She is the push/pull, I want you but now your are overwhelming me, needy but claims independence, never to blame, occasional child like temper tantrum, frivolous spender, has situational triggers, Quiet Waif type.  75%-80% of the time it was the perfect relationship.  The tension of the push/pull, want you/get away caused so many issues and behavior by me that I am working on from my FOO.

Sometimes I feel guilty being on this board and asking for advice/opinions or sharing my issues.  Like sitting in the Emergency room to get stitches on a finger cut when so many people are there for "real" issues like heart attack, car accident, or strokes. 

Our situation actually is resolvable if there is a desire to work on it.  There is actual love still there by both of us.  I am working on my part because I need to.  She has not made that choice and I can't expect her to.  I can desire it but I can't expect it.  Similar to desiring 6 pack abs and a Camaro.  I have to be able to accept the 1 pack and the Malibu and be happy.  I can do that.  

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Ox,

I'm pleased to hear you're doing well in your own life and focus on your priorities.  This is great.  Please don't think I was suggesting you weren't moving forward in that respect.  Probably rubbish wording on my part.  What I was alluding to was turning all of your attention to you and none of it on your ex, so that you can be completely free emotionally and available for a new chapter.
 
I'll try to give an example.  There was a time when early in my NC I still entertained medical professionals who might call to speak to me about my ex, in an attempt to still be supportive of his recovery (or any hope of one).  I called the court to get the outcome of a trial he faced, as I just had to know or else I'd be so worried that he might be in prison and how would he survive?  Further along in my own healing I have let go of that and no longer wish to concern myself with how he is doing.  We are over.  It is no longer my business or my responsibility to care from afar.  I wish him well however the details of his slips or improvements being brought to my attention would only hinder me now (recent events beyond my control have underlined this for me) so as part of my own detaching process I've moved away from that urge to know he's OK.  That is for him to think about and his current primary attachment.  We are all different and handle things our own way.  For me, to look at that balance whilst the card is in her possession - regardless of any change in the amount - would instantly bring her to mind.  It's that invisible connection I was keeping alive that I've had to consciously block for myself.

I like what your counsellor suggested to put in your response to the text.  Have you decided to reply?  I found for me the easiest thing was not to respond to anything I got, as I dreaded it opening the floodgates from him and being drawn into something.  Also, I had done the 'final do not contact me' message, so have never responded to anything since that point.  Under any circumstances (and he's created some alright).  It looks like this is the type of 'final' message your counsellor is suggesting this might be.  To effectively draw a line.  If you're sure that is what you want then the wording sounds a good way to do that. 

I feel the same way about changes being necessary to ever consider anything in the future.  Massive ones on the part of my ex, and some fairly epic ones on my own part.  Regards the conditions you'd have to consider anything with this woman, is she aware of them?  I just ask because prior to NC I wrote a letter to my ex with some 'non negotiables'.  I know this isn't the best way to get a great response from a pwBPD, however it just had to be said and some clarity achieved for both of us, particularly him.  Recently in a text pleading for help he mentioned that he's achieved number 1 on the list.  Whilst it's nice to know, I'm confident that he will not commit to the necessary therapy that is number 2, so I don't hold out much hope that I'll ever hear from him in the future with the fact he's completed them all and has come to find me.  It's a shame as, despite him being a far cry from your ex in his presentation, we actually did have real potential if the effort had come from both sides.  Curious to know if you ever had that discussion directly in your relationship?  Forgive me if I've missed that somewhere in another post. 

When I talked about mixed messages to yourself it's because that's something I felt I did with myself.  Ultimately, I was desperate for the distance and to move on, yet at the same time I was concerning myself with his activities and well being (his ADHD consultant rang me to say he didn't show up for his appointment and I asked that they not strike him off in case he still decided to pursue his treatment, then went on to give him feedback he requested about the medication he'd been trialling etc.  Even the doctor said he hoped he'd see me again with my ex at a future appointment after I said we were over and I agreed)... .  I was begging the universe to help him get better and come back to me.  This really slowed down my own recovery as I was in two minds.  I knew what was good for me, which was to detach completely, yet part of me was still planning for a future with this man.  I reached a point where I had to let go of that hope and whilst I don't regret sending up my pleas to the universe, I have put that thought behind me and if in the future I get the most amazing surprise I'll be sure to post it here!   

Ox the main thing I want to respond to in your reply is this.  You mention feeling guilty and talk about others' issues as being 'real' on this board.  Please don't play down your own heartbreak.  Your hurt and confusion at what has happened to your relationship is just as real as anyone's and it's important you give yourself credit for what you're dealing with at present, what you've experienced on the journey and what you are doing about it now for yourself.  Also, allow yourself to feel important.  Because you are just as important as anybody on this planet and we all should remember that sometimes.  We all need help and support here and I seriously doubt anyone is doing comparisons of who had it worst.  The fact is we've all had a hard time and can relate to so much of one anothers' experiences.  Thank goodness this website exists. 

Let us know how it goes if you send the text.  Meantime keep up the great work healing and smiling - like the one pack comment!  I am actually very proud of my six pack - it is there, just well insulated! 

Love and light x           

 

[once removed]

"Yes, it was me, and it was a mistake on my part.  You know that and I know that.  Your asking was just a way to elicit a response after saying that we should not communicate going forward.  I would prefer that we go back to that no communication because, as you said, it is better for me."

this might be a little JADEy (justify, accuse, defend, explain), in the sense that it accuses her, and puts her on the defensive, and then you might have an argument on your hands.

i recommend a simple "yes" (if you feel the need to respond), and put the boundary on you (choosing not to reply if she contacts you), if theres no reason for further contact between the two of you.

[Doughboy]

this might be a little JADEy (justify, accuse, defend, explain), in the sense that it accuses her, and puts her on the defensive, and then you might have an argument on your hands.

i recommend a simple "yes" (if you feel the need to respond), and put the boundary on you (choosing not to reply if she contacts you), if theres no reason for further contact between the two of you.

I replied as I had written it.  If it causes and argument it will be one-sided.  I will not engage unless her or her children end up in the Hospital for something OR she reaches out to try and reconcile.  If it is the later then there will have to be a long discussion before I would consider getting back on for another go.  I do Love her, and always will to some extent, but I am not stupid... .

[Doughboy]

I like what your counsellor suggested to put in your response to the text.  Have you decided to reply?  I found for me the easiest thing was not to respond to anything I got, as I dreaded it opening the floodgates from him and being drawn into something.  Also, I had done the 'final do not contact me' message, so have never responded to anything since that point.  Under any circumstances (and he's created some alright).  It looks like this is the type of 'final' message your counsellor is suggesting this might be.  To effectively draw a line.  If you're sure that is what you want then the wording sounds a good way to do that. 

It has been sent.  Last night in fact.  I do not anticipate a response.  Her D17 is heading to France today for a Summer exchange program so I am sure today is hectic.  The D17 did text me last night, even though she is not supposed to, to say she would send a postcard and that she wished I could be there when her flight left.  I wished her good luck, told her to stay safe but to make the most of the trip and that I loved her.  Her D17 daughter relied, "I will! Love you and miss you!"  That was tough to read... .

Regards the conditions you'd have to consider anything with this woman, is she aware of them? ... .Curious to know if you ever had that discussion directly in your relationship?  Forgive me if I've missed that somewhere in another post. 

Never had the conversation.  Didn't realize what happened until my Counselor pulled everything out of me during 2, 3hr appointments after/during the split.  My friends also pointed out a bunch of things and then this forum... .it all fell together like a puzzle.

I reached a point where I had to let go of that hope and whilst I don't regret sending up my pleas to the universe, I have put that thought behind me and if in the future I get the most amazing surprise I'll be sure to post it here!   

Same views in my world also for the most part.  That is the Desire vs. the Reality I mentioned.

[Doughboy]

i recommend a simple "yes" (if you feel the need to respond), and put the boundary on you (choosing not to reply if she contacts you), if theres no reason for further contact between the two of you.

I meant to add in my other reply that I feel I have set a boundary by stating I would prefer to go back to the no communication. If she violates that it then falls on me to enforce it.

[joeramabeme]

Hi Ox

Lots of great replies here.  Not sure that anyone explicitly said the following, I will keep it short.  You can't get her to see that you are a good guy and really love her by paying her bills or anything else.  I, and others, went through great measures of self-abandonment (or as Once Removed put it - boundaries) to show our pwBPD that we really do care about and love them.

Sadly, whether it is BPD, or just simply that she is not interested or even the hybrid (not interested because of BPD); you will never be able to change her perceptions of how you want, or even deserve, to be seen. 

You can check your motives for your action before deciding what choice to make by asking yourself; "am I doing XYZ this for my benefit?".

I read the book "Stop Caretaking The Borderline".  In it that Author suggests that caretaking people is manipulation; trying to get them to do, see or believe what we want them to.  I got upset reading that and had to admit, that was exactly what I was doing with my actions.  Perhaps you can identify.

JRB

[Doughboy]

 No contact any other way unless you include the pending "friend request" that she claims to be declining.  That claim is one that I will leave on her as she said she was going to decline it.  

Update:

She finally got around to declining the pending "Friend Request".  It will no longer allow me to send a request in the future but I am not blocked from seeing everything on her page.  At this point I have gone ahead and blocked her on facebook so that she cannot see my stuff and I cannot see hers.

I have also cancelled the ATM card that was attached to my Savings as I assume she has actually shredded the card.


I guess part of me was hoping that there might have been some chance to get back together and the "Friend request"/facebook was the most passive way for that to begin at some point.  That door was closed by her and I will take that to mean that she is now completely finished.

I guess this was the last little thing I needed to begin fully moving forward.  Not happy about it but not sad either... .which is of course a lie.

[Harley Quinn]

Hi Ox,

We could tell ourselves worse lies though... .Thanks for the update.  I'm so pleased you decided to cancel the card.  It's little steps like that which gave me a boost and made me feel like I was taking back some control of my life.  Slowly but surely it will come together for us.  It must have been a real blow for her to actually decline.  I feel for you.  Those moments are tough to take.  More power to you though for blocking if this means you can't see her stuff (I don't do social media).  I can remember well the day I finally put the knives back in the block from the locked cabinet they'd been stored in.  So very empowering.  Scary at the same time because it signified a finality I wasn't comfortable with.  I can empathise with where you're at.  Keep moving forwards and find ways to do things you enjoy.  Just prioritise you for a bit and don't allow yourself to feel selfish.  Sometimes that's exactly what we need.

Love and light x