"Guilt is not a good motivator to see them." What is a good motivator?

[Peacefromwithin]

I am going to a friend's wedding in a few weeks, and I'll be near my parents. I was talking with my therapist about getting together with my parents. We've made plans to meet for brunch the day after the wedding, before I go home. It's been on my mind a lot, as the date approaches closer and closer. Even my husband said I seem to be distracted lately.

At first when we made plans a while ago, I was okay with it, but I've lately been falling back into my old behaviors and old roles, just from thinking about how they've treated me in the past or how they may act when I see them. I know this isn't a good thing. But I don't have the tools to know how to stop this kind of thinking. What should I say to myself when I have the awareness that my mind is thinking like this? I kind of would've liked reminders of how to not fall back into old behaviors around them, but instead my therapist is thinking I'm not in a good head space to go see them. As much as I appreciate greatly his protecting me from a potential very bad scene, I just wish he would've been more of an active participant in helping me get back to the head space I was in when I saw them last.

My therapist asked me what my motives were to get together with them. I said that the last time I saw them, all went well because I let them be their crazy selves, and separated myself from it. I was very calm. And I sent limits to the time I spent with them. I didn't take any crazy questions or statements personally. I didn't take their bait. If they talked about something I didn't want to talk about, he had suggested I just calmly say that I didn't want to talk about that now. I have forgotten all those tools he taught me back then, and I wish he brought them up again but he didn't.

But about my motives... .I said that if I didn't see them, and something happened to them, I would feel absolutely awful and guilty about not seeing them. I said that my (uNPD) father would be really hurt if I cancelled, and I didn't want to hurt his feelings.

T said very firmly, which I appreciated, (when I'm lost in my head from the thoughts surrounding my uBPD/NPDm or uNPDf, I need things stated firmly or directly so I can "hear" it), "guilt is not a good enough motivator to see them. Really think about your motives in seeing them."

I'm trying to think of my motives. I really do want to see them because they're my parents, but I know there is always a risk in seeing them if I don't have my "protective barriers" up and all that. But am I going more for them than for me? Yes absolutely. Because I know the conversation will be 100% about them--whether they'll be raging/venting about something, causing a scene with the waitstaff or manager, or extremely bragging and boasting about something else. I don't expect them to act any differently than the emotional 4 year olds that they are. I know my expected role--to take it all in, and make them feel good and make it all about their feelings and needs. But I also know it's a time limited thing and so there's a beginning and an end.

Why is "guilt" such a bad motivator? And now I almost feel guilty that guilt is my motivator, like I'm a bad daughter for not saying, "I'm going to see them because they're my parents and I love them and I want to make them feel good." Is that what would've been a healthier motive?

This is so confusing.

How to love but not at the expense of myself.

How to figure out what my motives are, and if they're good motives.

How to remember the tools to use in dealing with pwBPD/NPD and be on guard.

[Kwamina]

Hi Peacefromwithin

It sounds like just the thought of seeing your parents is triggering a lot of unpleasant thoughts and emotions in you. When you were raised by disordered parents, it is understandable that you would develop certain sensitivities. It might help to consider the work of Pete Walker who has written extensively about adult children traumatized by a childhood with disordered parents. This is what he says about guilt:
"Feeling guilty does not mean I am guilty. I refuse to make my decisions and choices from guilt; sometimes I need to feel the guilt and do it anyway. In the inevitable instance when I inadvertently hurt someone, I will apologize, make amends, and let go of my guilt. I will not apologize over and over. I am no longer a victim. I will not accept unfair blame. Guilt is sometimes camouflaged fear. – “I am afraid, but I am not guilty or in danger”."

Do you perhaps think that your guilt might also be camouflaged fear? And if you do, what do you think you are most afraid of?

Pete Walker also says this about fear:
"Feel the fear in your body without reacting to it. Fear is just an energy in your body that cannot hurt you if you do not run from it or react self-destructively to it."

Are you able to sit with and through your fears?

Take care

The Board Parrot

[Fie]

Hello Peacefromwithin 

Why is "guilt" such a bad motivator?

I think guilt is a bad motivator because guilt is a defense mechanism. It's an emotion that is not linked to our direct reality. Instead, it puts us back in the past, and it's a reaction to f.e. old grieve, pain, etc.

I think the moment we keep feeling guilt we can say that we do not see things clear anymore because we are not operating from the 'here and now'.

Parents with BPD use tactics to make their children feel guilty whenever they do something that might be perceived as wrong by the parents. Because the child is never ever good enough, this guilt can unfortunately become a life long companion for the child of a BPD. Especially when they have the feeling they are not doing enough for their parent.

xx

[Peacefromwithin]

Hi Peacefromwithin

It sounds like just the thought of seeing your parents is triggering a lot of unpleasant thoughts and emotions in you. When you were raised by disordered parents, it is understandable that you would develop certain sensitivities. It might help to consider the work of Pete Walker who has written extensively about adult children traumatized by a childhood with disordered parents. This is what he says about guilt:
"Feeling guilty does not mean I am guilty. I refuse to make my decisions and choices from guilt; sometimes I need to feel the guilt and do it anyway. In the inevitable instance when I inadvertently hurt someone, I will apologize, make amends, and let go of my guilt. I will not apologize over and over. I am no longer a victim. I will not accept unfair blame. Guilt is sometimes camouflaged fear. – “I am afraid, but I am not guilty or in danger”."

Hi Kwarnina! Thanks for the post. I see you're a retired staff member. I appreciate your time, wisdom, and suggestions to my post.

Yes, I am certainly feeling triggered. Thanks for bringing up Pete Walker. I've read a few of his articles online and they are helpful. I just wish I wasn't in this triggered state right now, because this is when I have trouble absorbing what I am reading. But I will try to read more from his articles. He has a good one on forgiveness. I really like the quote you shared on "guilt". That's so very helpful. Especially if I don't go see them and something happens to them, I will not allow family members to make me feel guilty. I've been blamed in the past for my family members' health problems and it makes absolutely no rational sense. You're helping me see that just because someone wants to make me feel guilty, does not mean I have to take the guilt on. And I love the point about not apologizing for something repeatedly. I never thought of that. I will not fall for that guilt. I could totally see them doing that to me. They have a way of manipulating things into being my fault, where I start to question my own reality.

Do you perhaps think that your guilt might also be camouflaged fear? And if you do, what do you think you are most afraid of?

Fear that I will hurt my uNPD's father's feelings if I don't visit with them because it's what he wants. And that if something happens to him health wise (he's of advanced age so to speak), then it'll be "my fault". One of my uBPD's siblings used to blame me for his high blood pressure which made absolutely no sense. My father's a Jeckly and Hyde and will make a huge mountain over a tiny molehill in public or whatever. His blood pressure has nothing to do with me. I'm so done walking on egg shells around them. Trying to be perfect nearly killed me.

Pete Walker also says this about fear:
"Feel the fear in your body without reacting to it. Fear is just an energy in your body that cannot hurt you if you do not run from it or react self-destructively to it."

I love this! My T has been trying to teach me to not run from my fears or act out with OCD behavior when I'm in fear. It's not easy. I know that fear isn't real, but I keep believing it and feeding it. I know that the more I try to run away from fear, the larger it grows. But I'm not sure I understand how to run "toward" fear. I did recently try to agree with my fear, and that actually helped a lot, because I saw how silly it was, and it shrunk. I have to practice that more I guess, but it is so engrained.

Are you able to sit with and through your fears?

Not usually. It's like a wheel that keeps on spinning. However, recently I didn't email my uBPD/NPD sibling back right away, like T told me, and although it was excruciating because of the fear that that would make her angry, I talked to the fear, agreed with it, and again it shrunk and went away. I guess T explained this enough times that I finally "got it" and tried it without realizing it.

Sometimes I visualize the fear as a little cartoon monster. I visualize patting it on the head, and it quiets down and shrinks. I should try that again, because I remember at the time it worked. I should share that with T.

Take care

Thank you for helping me get back on track.

[Peacefromwithin]

I think guilt is a bad motivator because guilt is a defense mechanism. It's an emotion that is not linked to our direct reality. Instead, it puts us back in the past, and it's a reaction to f.e. old grieve, pain, etc.

Thank you for explaining that. I guess I'm just used to "guilt" because it was how I was conditioned. Anytime my uBPD/NPD raged at me as a child, she'd make me feel badly and guilty and she blamed me for it and would ask very coldly if I was sorry, etc. So I guess it's an old automatic response to them.

I think the moment we keep feeling guilt we can say that we do not see things clear anymore because we are not operating from the 'here and now'.

I'm not sure I understand this, as they can try to make me feel guilty in the here and now if something happened.

Parents with BPD use tactics to make their children feel guilty whenever they do something that might be perceived as wrong by the parents. Because the child is never ever good enough, this guilt can unfortunately become a life long companion for the child of a BPD. Especially when they have the feeling they are not doing enough for their parent.

Yes. Exactly. This was hard to read because of its truths. I was made to feel guilty as a child for the littlest things, and things never made sense. I was made to feel guilty for growing out of clothing. I was made to feel guilty for having a stomach ache, my mother making a doctor's appointment, and then feeling better on the way to the doctor.   One time at the town pool, a friend asked why my father wasn't there. I innocently said "He vacuumed and mopped the kitchen this morning so he's tired and is home napping." My mother and father raged at me over telling my friend that my father vacuumed and mopped the kitchen. I had no idea what I did wrong. All I knew was "I was bad". Even though I tried so hard to be good, people-pleased them to a fault, and tried hard to be perfect and do what they said--but they often changed the rules on me, or they followed different rules than they gave us, so it was hard, tiring, and confusing.

I know as an adult now that I was far from bad and was made to feel guilty over every little thing.

So how do we overcome that lifelong feeling of feeling guilty?

Thanks for the post.