Help me return to earth

[Depression = 72% of members]

Been in a bit of a fog all weekend. Just started therapy and talking about a lot of issues with uBPD mom and have been discussing it with my siblings. Feel very spacey and I think I'm dissociating hard.

How do I come back? I want to feel present again, this is maddening.

[LittleBlueTruck]

Been in a bit of a fog all weekend. Just started therapy and talking about a lot of issues with uBPD mom and have been discussing it with my siblings. Feel very spacey and I think I'm dissociating hard.

How do I come back? I want to feel present again, this is maddening.

[Harri]

hi Little Blue T.  I'm sorry to hear that you are struggling.  Dissociation sucks. 

The things that help me long term to deal is to remind myself that dissociation (or flashbacks, panic attacks, etc) will likely increase when I start therapy and then over time they will decline as I heal and learn to sit with my emotions without shutting down.  As awful as dissociation feels, I will put a positive twist on it and tell myself that my reaction means I am touching on some very deep emotions and the fact that I am, regardless of dissociating, means I am making progress.  I also try to remember that dissociation is my minds way of protecting me when things are overwhelming and that sometimes, it is necessary.

As for getting myself back and dealing with dissociation short term, I listen to loud music while driving my car (usually hard rock does it for me).  Sometimes holding an ice cube can help or taking a cold shower.  Go for a run if you do that sort of thing, I hear some people enjoy it!  Watch a favorite show, scrub the floor  A lot of times though I just sit with it.  It is easy for me to do that as I have no kids or husband to be around for but I don't think that would work for you.

You can always post here too.  that sometimes helps.  Conversely, taking a break from reading, talking and posting outside of therapy can help as well.  It is all too easy to get overwhelmed.

This will get better though.  It really will.

[LittleBlueTruck]

Thank you, Harri. So wise - I just finished a strength training. I've never been a very athletic person and it is new for me, but it is just so incredibly helpful and empowering!

I think I intellectually knew therapy would make it worse at first but I imagined it in a very sterile way. Actually going through the worse part is hard.

My mom's husband is visiting right now. He has what I believe to be NPD. The word "selfish" doesn't begin to encompass his behavior. He has behaved atrociously while here and the more rude he gets to us, the more my mom is exalting him.

She recently dropped major hints that my husband and I should take him shopping for clothes and pay for it. Prior to identifying these codependency traits in myself, I probably would have! I am proud of myself for starting to assert boundaries and step back from intense codependent behavior, but I guess I wasn't ready for all the "junk" that comes up when she sniffs out what I'm doing and begins punishing.

I read your other post and something very disturbing that your mother did, where she hid in the basement... .my mom talks frequently of living in fear that I will hit her. I have no idea where this is coming from - I don't spank my children or even believe in hitting my dog! But it screws me up so badly. And it puts me in a position of reassuring her and comforting her for something that is so outlandish.

Sorry, this is fragmented. It's all really overwhelming. Last night, I started feeling intensely insecure that maybe it's all me and I'm conning everyone but that she's really the only one who can see that I am a monster or a sociopath or something. I made a list on my phone of all the harmful things I remember from childhood. I didn't expect this reaction but my heart started racing and I felt an overwhelming sense of dread. It was a lot and it was (I think?) objectively screwed up things. But I don't know! Up until recently, i very much so bought into her narrative of victimhood.

It's hard to talk about all this! Not like I feel too shy to talk it out, I just get sort of overwhelmed and lose the energy to keep talking.

[Nettleton]

Last night, I started feeling intensely insecure that maybe it's all me and I'm conning everyone but that she's really the only one who can see that I am a monster or a sociopath or something.

I understand this feeling so much! It makes it so hard to reach out.

That tiny little fear. What if she's right? What if I am a monster?

And even though I've done a lot of work, even though I some days am able to be in a place where I can accept myself, all it seems to take is one bad encounter to slide back into that pit of familiar self-blame and self-denigration. She doesn't even have to blame me, just one of those shifting sand wobbly weird interactions sends my mind into that valley of horrors.

No, let me rephrase. When I react, I slide into that valley. I take a false refuge there, maybe? Path of least resistance?

So, yeah, I wish you well. This is very difficult.

[Harri]

Arrrgh!  I just lost a long reply!  So anyhoo... .

Hello again Little Blue!  Good for you doing strength training!  I am impressed!  The one thing I did not mention was to take a nap... .I do it all the time but I don't think it is a good thing!  LOL 

So, not only have you recently started therapy and working on some tough wounds, but you are posting and reading here and on top of that your mom and her husband are visiting as well (on top of all the usual daily stuff you deal with?)!  Of course you are shutting down!   

And not only all that but you are actually changing your behaviors when interacting with them, behaviors that have been long established.  That is a boat load of stressful stuff to be dealing with. 

Remember, your family will push back as you change how you interact with them.  Expect it.  Remind yourself that if they get upset and start pushing back, that means the changes you are making are probably working!  Even harder to deal with though is that you will be fighting yourself.  You have done things a certain way for so long that certain behaviors are almost reflexive.  It will take time and practice to get to the point where you will feel comfortable and the nagging, lying voice in your head will stop tormenting you.  You will feel guilty.  Remind yourself that guilt is not appropriate when all you are doing is taking care of yourself and treating yourself with respect.  You know all of this but I figure I can remind you.  You are doing nothing wrong when you choose healthy behaviors. 

I am very sorry your mom also acts and talks like she has reason to fear you.  It is all lies Little Blue.  knowing that does not change the way it feels though.  The deep hurt and bewilderment such statements cause.  I used to attribute my mother doing that to projection, but I am not sure anymore.  What I do know is that it hurts, and what helped me as she said all sorts of things after I broke away was to recognize that her words had nothing to do with me and were a reflection of what was going on in her.  Keep telling yourself that over and over.  Regarless of the cause of her doing this, her words are lies.  Damaging and soul crushing, but lies all the same.

I do want to thank you for posting in my thread in spite of being triggered and already under so much stress.  It took a lot of strength to do that.  I hope in some way it will help you come to terms with what your mother did and still does to you.

Have you ever asked her why she says things like that or told her that her words hurt, and asked her to stop?

I can't help you with the voice that is telling you that you are a fraud.  As you read, I am struggling with that too.  I think tho that that too is a lie.  Know that I believe you and like Panda said to me, I am going to stick beside you.

 

[Harri]

Hi Nettleton.  good to meet you.

No, let me rephrase. When I react, I slide into that valley. I take a false refuge there, maybe? Path of least resistance?

Very very interesting way of looking at this in terms of that voice telling me I am faking out everyone.  I'm am going to have to let this one roll around in my head for a bit.  I know you posted this to Little Blue but you have helped me. 

Thank you.

[MauraC]

Hi I'm new but this is so helpful.  My mother has made me feel like I am a monster and nothing I do will ever be good enough.  I'm not there for her, I don't care, she's last on my list etc... Truth is her voice is in my head constantly taking up tons or real estate.  I feel worthless, ashamed, and if I do something good for myself, I feel guilty... I never thought I'd hear others felt the same.

[LittleBlueTruck]

A longer more cogent reply later when I'm not being pulled away... .but Nettleton, yes, the path of least resistance is spot on. In a weird way, it's comforting to re-enact the same tired, broken way of thinking and reacting. I DO hear her voice in my head constantly. I end up reacting to things she hasn't even said, it's just things I'm bracing myself for (that's when I fear I actually have BPD). This was a helpful thing to read.

Harri - it's so hard to write this because I know it's awful and it needs to stop NOW, but my mom lives with me. Prior to being conscious of the extent of her problems, we asked her to come out for four months to help with my eldest when I went back to work to delay the daycare thing a little longer. She arrived and announced she would NEVER live with her husband again and she was moving in. That was two years ago. She's wonderful with children... .I think. But since becoming more aware of this and now the arrival of a second child, she seems nervous to continue providing childcare (SO UNDERSTANDABLE! Kids are EXHAUSTING and she's 63, we totally get it). But anything we suggest to change the situation makes her act irrationally. We talked about putting my son in daycare and she panicked and told us he would be ignored in a corner and treated terribly... .that daycare children have hollow eyes. We said we would pay for a nanny to come in, part time just to help, and she bizarrely started criticizing this fictitious person in a really specific way. I think she knows she has a place in this house securely so long as she is the childcare provider so she rejects anything that threatens that. But she's also weaving a story where we keep her as an indentured servant. It's so confusing. She has no income. No bank account even, literally no money to her name. She has always sneered at money and people who are concerned with money (we fully financially support her). If we put the kids in daycare, it's going to be really tight paying for daycare, the higher housing costs we incurred moving into a big house to accommodate her (she said her last room was a prison so we moved to a larger house), AND money to support her. My brothers will help too, though, so that's where we are headed. The money doesn't matter, my mental health and my family's mental health is most important. And of course, her health and happiness. If I'm so horrific, I don't understand why she's so petrified of leaving?

I know she needs to leave. Badly. But I'm having such a hard time. Any confronting her about how hurtful her words are to me are met with a rude laugh or sneer and she says something like "ME? You ATTACK me every chance you get! I am just trying to hide from your abuse." It's a non-starter. She also will literally tell a lie. She recently casually mentioned when she first moved in that I used to scream at her and throw things. Never. Not even close. My husband and I don't even yell, we're such muted fighters. So anything I say is met with fiction or immediate accusations.

What you write is really helpful. I want to write more and respond more specifically to what you wrote by a lot of my writing happens when I am hiding in the bathroom from my kids, haha! Probably gallows' humor, but I have been really anxious about how to initiate this conversation about her moving on and my husband just suggested we say "the (our last name) Corportation has decided to take a new direction and you are not involved in that future. We wish you the best of luck in your future endeavors." Ahhhh, if only that easy!

[Harri]

Hi Little Blue. 

Respond when you can, as little or as much as you want.  Posting and replying is not supposed to add more to your plate!

As for your mother living with you?  Well, not to minimize your situation or to one up you, but let me one up you (!)  I lived in my parents house, abuse and all, until my mid to late 30's.  I get how difficult it is to change things.  I had no life of my own, everything revolved around my mother... .I am still trying to break the bonds even 10 years after she died.  I get it.  It takes time and you are in a great place to get support and feedback.

I like what your husband said about your corporation restructuring!  haha 

Again, your mother will push back, say outlandish stuff and lie to you.  Expect it.  Do not base your decisions, about her moving out or anything else, on her reactions to it.  If you wait to find just the right words to say to get her to leave, it will most likely be a very long wait... .and your kids may have moved out already!  Her reactions may be fear based and understanding that may help you take her reactions less personally.  Put her behaviors in the context of the disorder and plan accordingly.  Chances are, no matter what you say or how you say it, she will get upset.  Remember that.  Understanding that can be very freeing.  In no win situations, where the win is dependent upon the responses of a disordered person, the only real option is to do what is best for you and your husband and kids.

With my mother, I found it best to be direct and simply make statements.  For me it was, "I am moving out. '  I gave no explanation other than to say it was time for me to live my own life.  I was accused of being selfish, uncaring, evil, you name it.  I kept repeating it.  My father pushed back as did my brother.  Nothing changed at my end in terms of an outward response.

I don't know if you can do the same with your mom.  Instead of trying to 'get through to her' and have her understand and accept, do you think just making a statement that you have found her an apartment and she will be moving out in a month (2 weeks?  tomorrow?) possible?  Regardles of what you do she will not be happy.

I think you have managed things quite well Little Blue.  Having a husband and two kids while dealing with your mother as she is?  I am impressed.