Do dBPD always change reality to suit their feelings?

[Depression = 72% of members]

Do folks with BPD/NPD always rewrite history, make things up, change reality to suit their disordered thoughts?  Do they really believe their version even when there are no facts to back up their crazy ideas?  My sister LOVES to diagnose me and others and the truth is, she knows very little about me.  Her latest is that she refers to me as "anorexic" which cracks me up.  I am not overweight but am most definitely not anorexic.  I had a physical in June and I am healthy!  She has not seen me in person in probably over a year.    So how can my dBPD sister go around calling me anorexic?  Next, she thinks I am HSP.  I am in therapy and my therapist says I am an empath and although most empaths have HSP traits I am not HSP, usually disordered people are.  My sister says she is HSP.  She also readily diagnoses our deceased mother.  My sister is NOT a doctor.  I am not a doctor.  My sister told me back around 2012(or close to this)  she was diagnosed BPD and now says she does not have BPD.  Does someone you know readily diagnose others without fact?  My sister lies a lot so this doesn't surprise me.  I really don't care what she says as my family which I am very close to as well as my friends and significant other know the truth!

[Pina colada]

Do folks with BPD/NPD always rewrite history, make things up, change reality to suit their disordered thoughts?  Do they really believe their version even when there are no facts to back up their crazy ideas?  My sister LOVES to diagnose me and others and the truth is, she knows very little about me.  Her latest is that she refers to me as "anorexic" which cracks me up.  I am not overweight but am most definitely not anorexic.  I had a physical in June and I am healthy!  She has not seen me in person in probably over a year.    So how can my dBPD sister go around calling me anorexic?  Next, she thinks I am HSP.  I am in therapy and my therapist says I am an empath and although most empaths have HSP traits I am not HSP, usually disordered people are.  My sister says she is HSP.  She also readily diagnoses our deceased mother.  My sister is NOT a doctor.  I am not a doctor.  My sister told me back around 2012(or close to this)  she was diagnosed BPD and now says she does not have BPD.  Does someone you know readily diagnose others without fact?  My sister lies a lot so this doesn't surprise me.  I really don't care what she says as my family which I am very close to as well as my friends and significant other know the truth!

[enlighten me]

Both my exs change reality to suit them. The scary thing is that even though false it becomes their reality and this is one of the reasons they are said to gaslight. They are so convinced that its the truth that we start to doubt our reality as they are so adamant theirs is the truth.

Their reality can also be emotionally based. Depending on how they feel at that moment depends on how their reality forms. For instance if they are in a bad mood then even a great day can be remembered as an awful one so little things can be blown up to match that reality.

[Highlander]

Hi Pina Colada,

I've been with my DH for 11 years and BPD runs rife in his family, so have experienced a few people with BPD, my DH (now recovered), my SIL (now deceased) and my MIL.

For my DH, when he was unwell with BPD, he remembered events precisely and never made up absurd stories to cover up his BPD behaviours.    Even before diagnosis, he owned up to his BPD behaviours (even splitting towards me), but until he was diagnosed, he was confused and he would hate himself for what he had done, leading him to self harm - he was a Low Functioning BPD and did not have NPD traits. 

His T's have all loved his honesty and ownership of his behaviours and loved working with him.  They even found that they could also treat me at the same time without a conflict of interest, because our events in therapy matched perfectly and at times my DH wanted me to go in first to explain events so he didn't have to relive them and he could then get therapy honed in on recent events.  This is likely why and how he recovered so quickly (once diagnosed) and after having accepted diagnosis with enthusiasm and hard work.

So from my experience I cant say that ALL BPD sufferer's make up these lies.  But the statistics show that 75% of pwBPD also either have NPD or plenty of NPD traits and in DH's case, I feel pretty lucky he didn't have any NPD traits whatsoever.

But my uBPD & NPD MIL is a completely different story and although my DH understands that he was once suffering from the same disorder as his mother, a disorder he knows is an inability to deal with emotions effectively and he knows that it is contracted the same way and treated with the same therapy, at times, he can't stand the thought that he once had the same thing as his mother still does and his main reasons he tells me is the extreme lies & manipulation. 

We have both caught my MIL out so many times with lies, manipulation, back stabbing and every time she recreates stories to cover the them.   When either DH or myself do something that she perceives is wrong (perceives is a really big word there), she tells other people total and utter bs to turn people against us and encourages them to either cut us off entirely or if they don't cut us off, to never question us about our side of her stories.  She must be saying things about us and begging them never to discuss them with us in fear we would expose the lies.  My uBPD MIL is High Functioning and doesn't believe she is unwell.

Its been astounding the times when we have caught her out and she will always pause and then either change the conversation completely, manipulate the conversation to say "I wasn't saying that" or hang up/walk away and after having some time to think she will return with a fabricated story or complete lies that fit into the scene, at times ensuring there were no other witnesses to prove the falsities.

Twice, one night, my uBPD MIL told my DH she loved her deceased DD more than him.  My DH became upset with her about it but didn't want to raise it with her (stepping on eggshells) but his distress was getting worse so I told her my DH was upset by her saying that.  She denied it to me, even though I said "I was there, I heard you tell him twice".  Her way out of that one was to tell me that it didn't happen and I must have manipulated my DH's mind and 'put the memory in his head'!  Of course, my jaw dropped and I was absolutely astounded by this obscene accusation and obviously denied it.  MY DH has an impeccable memory, at times, I rely on his over my mine.  Later she accepted she had said it to my DH and apologised for it, but I was never apologised for her insane accusation against me.

In my experience, and it is limited, my recovered LF BPD DH self harmed because he felt pain and remorse from his BPD behaviours and my HF uBPD MIL, whenever her BPD behaviours were exposed she used a different way to approach her emotions and that was to lie and manipulate her way out of it.  My uBPD SIL also showed remorse but at times got caught up in her mother's lies and manipulation and changed events in her mind to suit what her mother was saying.

[Pina colada]

Highlander, very interesting, thank you for sharing.  I am happy your husband is doing well!  I also think maybe you are right in that it is more the BPD with NPD traits that tend to change reality to suit their feelings.  My sister definitely has NPD traits although I am no doctor and she has never told me her doctor diagnosed her NPD traits.  She was diagnosed as BPD.  I just observe any NPD traits. 

[Notwendy]

My mother does this. Her version of what happened may be completely different from what happened.

She has told others that I have emotional issues. In fact, her FOO thinks that I am the reason for the difficulties in our relationship - that I am the one that has "issues" .  Since they live near her and rarely have contact with me, they basically only "know" me through what she tells them.

I have caught my mother in a complete lie and she will swear she "has never lied to me". She also left some really mean messages on my phone and when I spoke to her about them said " I never said that" even though I had it recorded on my phone.

It's hard to know if what she tells me is truth or fabrication. Sometimes I need to fact check with sibs. She will say one thing to me and something different to someone else.

[Pina colada]

What do you do to keep yourself grounded with the lies and smear?  I have come to point where I just laugh it off as I don't care what she thinks.  My sister always includes her kids, for example she'll mention that her son thinks I am disordered one, etc.  As if I are what her kids may or may not think.  My sister is a pathological liar.  About 20 years ago, when my daughters were babies, my sister stalked me to my house.  This was before they had cell phones.  She left so many message on our voice mail, all through the night, my husband and I, (I am divorced now) had to change our number.  Then she came over,  knocked on my door, rang my doorbell, left notes in any crack or crevice she could find, was yelling.  The icing on the cake was when she ran out of paper, she took her white gym shoe off, wrote a note on her shoe, through it at my house.  I was terrified, with two small babies, all alone.  This went on for over an hour.  I ended up sneaking out of the house and I went to the local police station.  I called her husband whom would not help with the issue.  I told the police she was mentally ill and I was nervous as a mother with young kids.  I brought the shoe... .They came to my house and addressed this issue.  She says I called the police "20" times, not true but I will not hesitate to contact authorities when she tramples my boundaries.  Another time she, a hypochondriac was sure she had the BRCA breast cancer gene and got tested.  When the test results were due to come to her she told me I must tell my daughters, whom were about 16 at the time, that they are at risk for breast cancer.  I said I would talk to them when they are older.  You know my sister started emailing one of my daughters and I was concerned.  I am their mom and both my husband and I wanted crazy sis to leave our kids alone.  I called the police.  Both times they helped me and as I said, I would call again if she does anything that tramples on the boundaries of me and my family.  Thanks for allowing me to vent.  It is exhausting

[Notwendy]

At first it was hurtful to think that my relatives on my mother's side thought I was the one with issues. They thought I didn't know that but I found out when they discussed it in a group e mail and accidentally hit "reply all" with my e mail address in it. It really hurt my feelings.

I actually broke contact with them. If they were going to smile at my face, and say this junk to each other - I really didn't want to pursue the relationship. They are enmeshed with my mother and I knew that to try to set the story straight would mean they had to either accept her reality or mine and I knew they would choose her.

I think they've learned a bit over the years. They all rallied to her side after my father passed away and I was painted black to  them. It was both sad to leave people I thought we "family" after all these years but who needs that. They would e mail me and tell me how wonderful my mother is- so they have each other. But I think in time, they have seen the other side of that "wonderful".

I think when it comes to this kind of thing, the truth prevails.



I agree with the boundaries over your children over frightening things like health scares. It isn't appropriate for your sister to share her worries with them. You can block your sister's e mail from your children's emails.

[Highlander]

Hi Pina Colada,

What do you do to keep yourself grounded with the lies and smear?

My DH (and it is his decision to make) has decided to go NC for as long as his mother lives.  Neither of us has spoken to MIL for a year now, but there is one problem, DH still has things that are dear to him stored at her house... .we are dreading the last time we see her... .if she allows him to collect his things... .haven't approached her about that yet... .kind of still don't know how.

Hi Notwendy,

At first it was hurtful to think that my relatives on my mother's side thought I was the one with issues.

They are enmeshed with my mother and I knew that to try to set the story straight would mean they had to either accept her reality or mine and I knew they would choose her.

Yes, even though my MIL's FOO has never witnessed me behave any other way but kind and humble  (been with DH now for over 10 years) and I have spent little time with them (we live a long way away) apparently I am the one with 'issues'. 

They've all been led to believe by my uBPD MIL that I made DH sick with BPD when he was age 30!  It's not my fault my MIL didn't pick up on the fact her son was self harming at age 10!  I did try calling an Aunt once to ask her to read about BPD on the internet so she would realise that her nephew had a childhood disorder and it didn't come from me, but she refused to research it and I was shot down.

I believe there are people in my MIL's life that can see through it.  She works as a domestic, in a mental hospital  and I can only imagine what the mental health nurses she has lunch with think when she says that her DIL gave her son BPD -  can only imagine them thinking "I knew there was something wrong with her... .BPD!"  Ha, ha, she doesn't even know she has been contradicting herself in front of professionals for years!

I have done nothing more than assist a man, damaged from his childhood (from HER), at times whilst exposing myself to horrific experiences, putting my own life on hold while I quit my studies to care for DH full time and we never had children because he was too sick when I was in my 30's and help him through countless T sessions to recover. 

Where many partners leave their BPD spouse's for good, I stuck by his side and my MIL tells people it's my fault for his CHILDHOOD DISORDER and my fault her son almost died once, after I risked my life to save her son's - he tried to take his life after becoming distressed by something SHE said to him over the phone.  Actually all my DH's T's were interested in what she had been saying to people and her 'blame games', they told us it helped them with DH's BPD diagnosis and told us they have no doubt she has BPD herself.

My mother does this. Her version of what happened may be completely different from what happened.

I have caught my mother in a complete lie and she will swear she "has never lied to me". She also left some really mean messages on my phone and when I spoke to her about them said " I never said that" even though I had it recorded on my phone.

A T suggested we record the last conversations we had with Dh's mother.  I am so glad we did.  We replay it often and it really helps DH not to question what was said and he knows we weren't too rough on her. She was on loud speaker and for over an hour she was splitting towards me, blaming me for it all being my fault because I had offered to do heavy labour for her (It doesn't have to make sense does it), yet again, blaming me for making her son sick (I'd heard that one before  ) and literary saying I said things 5 minutes before in the same recorded conversation, which I clearly didn't.

My DH, was also attacked in the recordings for being 'crazy' even though she has sited a medical document that proves he has recovered. 

If only it were legal to reply it to her FOO (but we can't - she would likely sue us) but at least my DH has the recordings because it isn't easy for him to process his deep feelings for his mother (or as he says - cut his umbilical cord) while he is deciding to go through permanent NC with his mother.

The recordings are the best T he has ever had.  Highly, highly recomended 

[Rock Chick]

Do folks with BPD/NPD always rewrite history, make things up, change reality to suit their disordered thoughts?  Do they really believe their version even when there are no facts to back up their crazy ideas? 

I think not all BPDs but some and usually its the ones that are further down the spectrum or scale that are more likely to do so. I know with my bfs malignant BPD etc mother she lives in her own reality or world that she created and it rarely if ever matches up to actual reality. I def. think emotions etc make them rewrite history rather its distant past, recent past or present. They will make things up so as it will match up to what they think reality is. they do so to justify their behaviors/words/etc and they tell their selves these things so much that they believe them and think its reality and then add the being emotionally unstable etc and bam! But thats just my 2 cents and experience.

[Insom]

I have a family member with BPD traits whom I view as an unreliable narrator.  She exaggerates strategically, and makes assumptions about other people's motives to support her point of view.  She seems to view most people - unless she's identified them as friends or supporters - as malicious, stupid jerks who are inexplicably out to get her.  That, or they are evil people.  There's a lot of conflict in her life.  I've learned to take all her stories with a grain of salt. 

[bastapasta]

At first it was hurtful to think that my relatives on my mother's side thought I was the one with issues. They thought I didn't know that but I found out when they discussed it in a group e mail and accidentally hit "reply all" with my e mail address in it. It really hurt my feelings.

I actually broke contact with them. If they were going to smile at my face, and say this junk to each other - I really didn't want to pursue the relationship. They are enmeshed with my mother and I knew that to try to set the story straight would mean they had to either accept her reality or mine and I knew they would choose her.

I think they've learned a bit over the years. They all rallied to her side after my father passed away and I was painted black to  them. It was both sad to leave people I thought we "family" after all these years but who needs that. They would e mail me and tell me how wonderful my mother is- so they have each other. But I think in time, they have seen the other side of that "wonderful".

I think when it comes to this kind of thing, the truth prevails.



I agree with the boundaries over your children over frightening things like health scares. It isn't appropriate for your sister to share her worries with them. You can block your sister's e mail from your children's emails.

Thank you so much for this. Every sentence could read as my family experience - right down to the "reply all" emails. In my case it's my mother's sister.

Distorting reality and accusing the nons of being disordered seems to be the default way to go - I guess because it works for the disordered person, as their enablers want to believe it or know it's out of their control. It's been tough when bad-mouthing and lies get back to me. I want to defend myself but I know that will only make it worse.

[hope2727]

Mine certainly did (and presumably still does). He couldn't face his shame for his own bad acts so he vilified others to make himself feel better. If that involved re-writing history to makes his memory alight with his tumultuous feelings so be it. Its sad really. He has lost so much due to his illness. Yet he can't stop and get the help he needs.

[Pilpel]

Do they really believe their version even when there are no facts to back up their crazy ideas? 

I wonder this, too, Pina Colada.  From what I've heard of my SIL, when she's confronted by someone who is strong willed and has strong boundaries, I know that she's been pushed to admit she was manipulative.  Otherwise she's content that we agree to disagree.   

[Charlie3236]

Yes! My BPD little sis absolutely always does this, and it is SO frustrating! I think she actually really believes the lies she tells herself. Before I knew she was BPD I was so confused and gaslighted by her, my head would just be spinning all the time! Now I know what's going on, so I can separate her disordered "reality" from the actual REAL reality. Honestly having as little contact as possible with her has been the best thing for my sanity!

[Pilpel]

Before I knew she was BPD I was so confused and gaslighted by her, my head would just be spinning all the time!

I had this experience too.  The gaslighting caused anxiety because I tend to give other people's perspectives the benefit of the doubt, and didn't know someone could twist the truth so blatantly.  And the truth becomes a tangled mess.  I had an experience with a compulsive liar when I was in high school, and I think the emotional effect that a compulsive liar has on their object of manipulation is very similar to the effect someone with BPD has. 

[FoxC]

Well, my mother does this. The worst thing is that I don't know for how long? All my life? All her life? This has totally shaken my reallity, because until I reached the adult age I totally believed her. There were, of course, things that didn't match quite well, but she always said to me as a child: "when you'll grow up, you'll understand" or "when you'll grow up, I'll tell you more, because you won't understand now".

When I grew up, I started to question her stories more. I was confused. I remember one time, she accused my father of something very unrealistic (and I was silently skeptic about it). I guess my father didn't know anymore how to take these accusations, so he said "well yeah, yeah, I did it. So what?". At that moment my yaw felt down, because I happen to believe HIM, and for the consequence HER. And I just joined the accusation myself. Poor me.

Couple of years later, I started to notice I got some peace of cake myself: I was accused of things I didn't do or I was told a distorted version of events that I knew was not correct. At that point I knew something was really wrong with my mother, but I couldn't figure out what. As soon as peace regained our relationship, I tended to forget it happened or hope it won't repeat when the stressor will end.

So now I learned about BPD and I witness her never ending distorted stories. This is awful. I don't know anymore whether her stories when I was a child, were true or false. I don't know whether event in her life that she has told me, events, for example, that could be part of the cause of her BPD are true or false. I have to re-question all MY memories now... .I have to figure out if I don't have repressed memories, as it seems that my childhood was actually very messed up, though I didn't realize it... .and it's hard like hell.