URGENT dil screamed an hour ago -- the kids will not be back here again

[grandmag]

   Since aI last posted I have been dealing with a lot of BPD behavior from my dil aimed at me... .11 texts from her on tuesday, arguing with me abut the b'day party I wa giving for my youngest grandson on friday. During the party, she really acted like a 3 year old and was very controlling and rude to me... .she even went outside to complain to a friend of mine who came to the party, saying I was being so rude to HER! My friend told her no, you are the one being rude, why are you doing this? Dil even complained that I "bugged" her, wanting to know if my granddaughter was coming to the party. My friend told her, that is her granddaughter, of course she wants to know.
   A sleepover was planned for after the party, but she changed that at the last minute, to last night. She said she would pick the kids up today at 1:30. She said she had made plans for dinner and a movie for saturday and also had forgotten that the boys both had an activity on saturday morning.
   So today, she got here an hour early, asking if they were ready. I said no, you are an hour early. She said I told you 12:30. I said no, and I had written it in my planner, 1:30. She was getting louder, demanding to know if they had had lunch yet. I said no, because you were early. She said ok, then you want me to wait? I said only if you lower your voice, and chnge your attitude. She really got loud, "Then I am going to my car!" She stormed out. The kids hurried to get ready... .and I made their lunch. She came back to my door after a little bit, banging hard, coming in, "Are they ready yet?"
She was using the "f" word... .loud... .I said "watch your language" She said I don't have to! It's my mouth!" Finally I said, you need to calm it and have some respect for me... .now. Her reply was "No! Get your s___ NOW we are LEAVING! And I am never coming back here, and neither are MY kids!" The youngest boy said please stop yelling at Grandma, you are being mean.She stormed out, slamming the door, hard.
   The kids were upset, and looking scared. I tol dthem just because she said that, doesn't mean that will happen. They didnt get all their things, and did not get lunch. They hugged me, and I said I will see you later. The 12 year old was in the shower when all this happened, with the door shut... .but he said he heard it anyway.
   
   I am sick and tired of her illness in my face, in my house, on my phone, even aimed at my friends!

   I am sick of her acting 3 years old but having an adult body!

   I am REALLY sick of everything she does and doesn't do , aimed at my grandkids. She doesn't care about them, and it is so obvious every day of their lives.

   I am sick of seeing my son becoming an empty shell of a man and a father, being reduced to her puppet. And all her twisted lying to him about what happens between her and me!

   If she convinces him that the kids can't see me, I am cstrongly considering reporting to cps... .they can see the house full of hoarding, the stove's oven not working, the bathtub drain not being able to be used, leaking through their kitchen ceiling,the washing machine not fixed and not working... the boys sleeping on peed mattresses with no sheets,every room overflowing with mess, dirty laundry on the floor all over upstairs, etc. If they see it, she can't lie about it.
   They can get the boys medical care that has been ignored for years. Pooping pants for 7 years... .rotten tooth for over 6 months, hardly eating anything (and being way too small and thin and sick every 3 weeks)... and therapy for the 8 year old for eating problems and frequent raging fits.
   I have even been told they cn order her to be psychiatricaly evaluated and treated.

   My son... .over time, has just let her control him more and more each year. He mostly looks at his phone all the time... and has become harsh, sarcastic, etc with me too. It seems as though he has no thoughts, or needs, or wants of his own any more... .or if he does, has been convinced he is not allowed to express them. He can't even say whether he will come ot my place before he asks her!

   I am not sorry this has happened today... .only that it had to. And that she would hurt the kids to get to me!

   But, I am not backing down, either. I have had it. Twenty years of being bullied by her is 20 years too much!
   Now, it MUST change.

                     grandmag

[Notwendy]

This looks like a typical response to setting boundaries.

It's a similar idea to a 4 year old temper tantrum. The child wants cookies for dinner, you say no, then the tantrum.

My mother acts like a 4 year old. I've heard all kinds of threats from her- and they used to upset me, but I have found in time that they don't pan out. They may for a while. I have been disowned, received horrible phone messages, threatened - to have anything left in her house that is sentimental destroyed. In time she acts as if nothing happened, even denies saying things. My reply: I have it recorded on my phone if you want to hear it.

You stood up to her. You didn't roll over like other people who fear her. Good for you. Sadly though, the payback may be something or someone you care about. Your son has choices too and so far, he has chosen to give in to keep the peace.

But giving in to her doesn't last long to keep the peace does it. It just reinforces her behavior. It isn't working with you now so she is trying harder ( extinction burst). It may get ugly but if you give in now, it just teaches her that her behavior works.

I am sorry about the kids and your son. I would agree with calling CPS if you think it needs to be done. I am so sorry your son made this choice-to allow her to control him,  but it is his choice to give in to her, and only he can change that. You need to take care of you. Not taking care of you-or having boundaries with her won't change the situation for them .

[Pilpel]

Grandmag,

Good for you for standing up for yourself!  I'm familiar with your DIL's methods --twisting facts around, acting as if you've purposely assaulted  or offended her when you asked her mundane questions, having a tantrum over basically nothing.  And I can guarantee that despite the fact that she acted out with so much hostility, she has most likely reimagined the incident in a way where she was the victim and you were the aggressor.  It sounds like your son and DIL are letting some important things slide.  I recall you mentioning before that your grandson has some emotional issues and is in need of counseling.  It may not hurt to consult with someone with CPS.  Though some of those issues you mention show dysfunction, but may not be enough to have the kids removed.  It probably goes without saying that the grandkids don't get a lot of validation at home, but have your grandkids indicated that they feel unsafe or uncared for at home, and that they'd like to live with you? 

[grandmag]

   My son called me, five hours ago... .and right off was trying to argue. I asked him if he knew what DIL did here today... he said no, but said he was supposed to pick up some of the kids things that were left here... .I said then you have talked with her... .suddenly he was at my door, coming in, and yelling at me. He said my dil has been complaining to him for a long time that I don't treat her right. He said I was supposed to not talk to her about anything unless I first considered what her reaction might be to what I was going to say! I said no way, she is responsible for her own behavior, I never was and never will be. I told him everything that happened here with her today, including the kids will not be coming back. He said she has that right! He also said that MY "version" of what happens never matches hers... .and I said well today your children heard and saw it all... and my friend was here too... .are we all imagining things? I asked him outright if he was in agreement with the kids not coming here any more... was he going to do that to them? He said he would do whatever she thought was the right thing to do! He yelled I am trying to HELP you know how to treat her! I said I don't need your help with that, but your kids need you to pay attention and give them what they need... .and that her doing this would only hurt them... .and what she cares about is trying to hurt ME, and she doesn't care what it does to them. So... .I opened my door so he could leave. On his way out, he yelled "You will not be hearing from us for a LONG TIME!"

   I have already "lost" my son and my grandsons. That is clear to me now. And it is not my doing, either.

   My counseler is calling me tomorrow, and I will try to get in to see her before my next scheduled appointment, which isn't for 5 more days. I need support, because I truly believe that if I don't make a report to cps, I will be just as wrong as she (they) alreeady are... .her, for 13 years.

   I feel somehow relieved... .in a weird way... .something WILL change for those kids, who don't and never have deserved this horrible life with their sick mother. And now that their daddy has declared himself, they don't deserve that either.
I need to be brave, and feel confident that this is for the best. Hope I can. In the meantime, I will take no calls from either one. They can text, and it will stay in my phone. If either one shows up here without invitation and gets out of bound, I will warn that they need to stop or I will call the police. (I have to protect me, too). My door will stay locked.

   I pray that the authorities will uncover the truth, and take the kids out and get them what they need.

   I am still wide awake, and my diabetic blood sugar today, 2 hours AFTER my dil left with the kids... .was 271(normal being 70-100). I will take care of me... .and do the only right thing left to do. Need your support here, too!

   grandmag

[Sprinkledinkles]

I am so sorry you and the grandkids had to see her behaviour and that she uses them as pawns to hurt you.  What I'm wondering is why the cps call now? Is it out of necessity or out of anger? For me personally if a call needed to be made then I wouldn't wait for someone to make me angry enough to make the call, I'd just call because they legitimately need some intervention. Right now as it stands it looks like retaliation, a response to her being awful to you. If I were her case worker then I would taken into consideration the timing of the call being the same time as the fallout. It looks like one last ditch effort to get your digs in also known as burning the bridge.

It's also the proverbial nail in the coffin. She wants you to get down to her level, there is an obvious pay off for her, as sick as that is. However, mess with her kids, pawns, whatever they fit into that day, then that's grounds for complete annihilation.  Gloves are off and she wins.

Therapists are mandatory reporters for child abuse/neglect and I'm sure if you haven't already discussed this with your therapist that when you do then they can and will do the reporting for you. If you have discussed every thing and your therapist hasn't reported then either it's not just cause yet or they are not upholding their position.  All I'm saying is play your cards right. She will use your actions against you to the fullest capacity so make sure you are prepared for that.

[grandmag]

to sprinkledinkles:

   I need to report because it s overdue and the kids need solid help.
   Four years ago, a friend from out of state visited me for a week... .and she saw and heard enough to ask me why I was not reporting... .I told her the truth-because I was sure she would lie to the investigators, and then isolate the kids even from me. And I was afraid of that. During her visit, I was in the shower, and my friend took her phone outside and SHE reported. Then she told me.
   The investigation happened quickly... .they even called me, and asked about my fostering the boys if they were removed. My dil of course, let me know very loudly that I would NOT be seeing the kids. My friend even called her and my son and admitted that she had reported. But I did not see the kids for six weeks... my son told me the older boy was crying himself to sleep every night, so she dosed him with chamomile tea so she wouldn't have to hear it.
   Later, the older boy said "Mommy told us that if we told on her, these people would take them away and they would never see her or daddy again" After that, he told me he wished he had been brave enough to tel the truth.
   When he was 9 he asked me to help him get a job, because he had to get his own place to live.
   When he was 10, he said she finally stopped hitting him on the head, he thinking it ws because he was now taller than her.
   The younger boy just turned 8, but he has been questioning his mother lying to him about me.
 Today, he told her to quit yelling ast me, and that she was being mean.
   She is verbally, physically and emotionally abusive. Also neglectful of their health.

   Why report now? There is nothing left to lose, and those kids deserve to be cared for. My counselor has been telling me for 2 years how important it is for the kids to have time with me, safe place, loving person. So, I did not report.

   But as I said, their is nothing to lose now... .and hopefully a lot to be gained for the kids.

   AS for my son, he is already lost to me... .and he has given in to her, and given up.

   I have not!

                grandmag

[Notwendy]

grandmag-

I am sorry that you are experiencing this kind of heartbreak.

Dealing with this situation with my parents, I thought of my father's mother and how hard it must have been for her.

I have thought about how I "lost" my father and the actual reason is that he "lost" himself in his relationship with my mother. This helped me to see the situation with compassion and not make it about me. It isn't about you. How this happened is a result of living with his wife- and adopting her point of view. However, it is also about him- he chose to let go of his values, his version of reality and his boundaries in his relationship with her. With empathy for him- it is difficult to hold on to oneself in these kinds of relationships- but it is also your son's task to begin the process of regaining himself if he so chooses.

You are part of the drama triangle. Your role is also ironically helping to stabilize their relationship. Wife presents you to your son as the persecutor- she takes victim position. Your son goes into rescue mode ( comes over to yell at you). There is an emotional payoff for him. He gets to be the good guy, her knight in shining armor for a moment. Two people can feel more united in a common bond against an external persecutor as it takes the focus off their own issues between them. I observed this with my parents who seemed loving to each other when they were both angry at someone or something else. ( including their grown children in this).

Have you really lost your son? I think somewhere he knows he is betraying his truth yet he isn't able or willing to face that. He is choosing the quick solution to the conflict with his wife.  I also think he is also choosing to preserve the attachment that he is least secure about and the person he is the most worried about- his wife over the one that is the strongest. I suspected that this is what my father was doing with me- I was a grown woman who could stand on my own two feet and he knew that.

One of my goals when I see the drama triangle is how to stay off it. Leaving the triangle does not mean leaving the relationship ( but it may include that if that is the best solution in some cases).  You can not control them putting you in persecutor mode. However, you can control your side of it.  For me, when my mother makes these threats- to disown me, etc, I don't react emotionally. If I beg, or try to change their minds or act upset - or the opposite- get angry at them- it just reinforces the drama. A calm " I understand that is your decision" and leave it to be often results in a cool down period with her then acting like it didn't happen.

You hold some cards here in the game, but it's a game you don't want to play ( drama triangle). They need you. One- as the persecutor in their rescuer-victim roles. The other is for child care. If you weren't an available sitter, they would need to find someone and pay someone- and also - how many sitters would put up with their lifestyle and behavior or sit in their home?  :)on't play the drama game with these cards, but do not underestimate your value to them. My best guess is that in time, they will need a last minute sitter and come to you playing nice. Then it will be your choice of what to do.

I know you love the kids, and they know it too. I don't have the answer to why these innocent children were placed in their situation. For me, I have to trust that it was God who chose my parents. My parents did a lot of good for me, and my mother has also been a challenge. Even as a small child, I felt the sense that a loving God was looking out for me, and I believe that. You can do what you can that is humanly possible- call CPS if you feel you need to, love those kids when you have the chance, but they are under the custody of their parents and there is only so much you can do about that.

[Pilpel]

He said I was supposed to not talk to her about anything unless I first considered what her reaction might be to what I was going to say! I said no way, she is responsible for her own behavior, I never was and never will be.

Good for you for standing up and putting the responsibility for how she acts back on her!  I thought it was interesting, tho, that you're son outright said that you should anticipate and prevent a negative response.  He's basically saying that walking on eggshells around her should be the rule.  And that is so wrong. 

I agree with Notwendy, that you probably have a lot more control in this situation than it seems.  If you do not successfully get custody of them with CPS, they could cut you out.  Though it sounds like the kids are old enough to understand their dysfunctional parents, and it sounds like they're attached to you.  It won't be long before they're old enough to see you if they want. Or like a lot of other BPD stories I've read about here, even if they avoid you for several months, DIL and son may need you enough to re-invent history and invite you back in their lives so you can watch the kids for free again.

Anyhow, I wish you and your grandkids the best outcome.