Really learning about BPD

[Depression = 72% of members]

I got some good advice on here to learn everything I can about BPD... .

Found this article and it's really interesting... .we never stood a chance unfortunately... .I'm going to learn as much as I can until my mind starts to think about other things... .I'm also going to learn my part in all this... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=314768

[confusedbloke]

I got some good advice on here to learn everything I can about BPD... .

Found this article and it's really interesting... .we never stood a chance unfortunately... .I'm going to learn as much as I can until my mind starts to think about other things... .I'm also going to learn my part in all this... .

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=314768

[Rose87]

Hi Confused
I just wanted to say thank you for posting this link... i found it really interesting and enlightening and am sure others will too. Best wishes to you.

[sadboi]

learning more helped me be less sad, too; it allowed me to fixate on learning things that made me forgive myself and understand, as opposed to fixating on how hurt and confused I was.

It is good to learn and acknowledge your own mistakes as you mentioned, but if you did your best, please be forgiving to yourself.

Knowing that there was most likely never a true chance for the relationship to be healthy or work also really helped me. It doesn't mean the love wasn't real, but that your ex wasn't capable of maintaining a relationship that you need/tried to foster.

Right now, the pain might be a little consuming, but I promise it will lessen. I have read your posts and I can already see you coming to more of an understanding and acceptance of what you're going through.

[confusedbloke]

Hi Rose - youre welcome... .Its sort of comforting to read I guess.  Best wishes to you also

Hi Sadboi... .I agree.  I know I did my best, I really couldnt have tried anymore... It was just never going to happen.

The thing is, she will repeat the process and she is someone elses problem now.  I suppose I could view it as Ive had a lucky escape.  With her for 2.5 years and if I had have married her, it could have lasted 20 years before divorce happened.  To divorce this woman, I would have lost everything and I honestly think it would have killed me.

I was thinking about what attracted me to her (apart from her looks), and its because I was 6 months out of a stagnant, but friendly marriage.  No passion, no sex, no arguing, just like flat mates really.  When that ended and I met exBPDgf, it was like a fire had been lit in my belly again... .  she got me over my sexual problems, which came from years of being denied sex... .  she was wild and free and just crazy... .  I was hooked.  Utterly hooked... .and I didnt care about all her craziness at the start... .it was just too exciting... .but as time progressed and her behaviours became ridiculous... .it just got too much...

I though she would calm down... and always hoped she would, but she got worse... much worse... .  If I'm going to be honest with myself, I think what Im trying to say is that I wasnt in the right place to have a relationship with someone as I still had baggage from my ex wife, and therefore didnt see / care about the consequences... .She was the polar opposite of my wife... and at that time its what I needed.

And I think in order to move on from this, I need to understand that perhaps she too served a purpose for me, in that I got over my exwife so very quickly after meeting this one... .but I got carried away and became abused and trodden on by someone who I thought cared deeply about me and not just her needs.  I ignored all the emotional torture she gave to me, and just put up with it for a snippet of her love... .  And I do genuinely believe that she loved me, but just in a childish way... .one that I will never truly understand, but as long as I keep researching and understanding the condition, is one that I can accept and come to terms with over time... .!

But I will... .I'm determined to... .  And next time, I want to be ready for a relationship, and perhaps understand myself, have more self-esteem, be aware of how I'm being treated... .But above all just be happy on my own... .  And that's a big one for me.  I need to overcome the fear of being on my own... .

[once removed]

hi confusedbloke,

so what did you learn? how did the article speak to you?

what about BPD are you trying to learn, and why? how we apply our learning really informs our recovery.

and what are you trying to learn as it applies to your part in the relationship?

[confusedbloke]

Hi Once,
Sorry I didn't realise this forum was here... .head has been a little clouded to think straight.  Thanks for moving it.

I feel she feels she did everything she could for the relationship, and blocked out all the BPD traits of hers... .plausible deniability. 
I think this is why she is so happy to move on... ."she did her best" in her head, and I didn't meet her impossible expectations...   They just got more and more ludicrous.  And she said "enough, I cant waste any more time on him and his attitude toward me".

So what am i learning?  And how did it speak to me?
I think the main thing Im learning that it is a severe and damaging mental illness.  Im learning that it is an illness and not someone being horrible on purpose, they just cannot help it, like I cant help breathing.

Because her reality and actual reality are so way off, it in its self is crazy.  Ive never met anyone with a mental illness before, and because there are no obvious physical disabilities, who would have known?  Ive been caught up in the mad crazy world of a pwBPD.  It is a dangerous world for the uninitiated, and I would suspect for those that are. 

But who would possibly know all this at the beginning?  You only know about it once your hooked and you research to find out what the hell is going on... and by then its too late.

Ive also learned about gaslighting.  This is very frightening and I was 100% subject to this; 
She had a tattoo on her stomach with her ex bf's name on it.  I jokingly said one night "oh yeah... .exes name there eh?"  and she said "no its my nieces name, and this is short for it"... .(it was a unisex name, but his was the shorter version).  I laughed as I thought she was joking, but she was serious and in the whole time Id known her, this "niece" that was so important to her in her life, to have a tattoo about, was never ever mentioned again.  Utter fabrication... .!  If the tables were turned I would have said "yeah, embarassing, I really shouldnt have got my exes name tatooed on me"...   like any normal person would.  I could never figure out why she lied about that...
I remember that being a very strong red flag... .but I dismissed it and carried on with sex!  But it was always on my mind.  This gaslighting will knock anyone out of the park if they ignore the flags... .  Ive learned that!

What have I learned... .Hmmm... .to trust my gut instinct... .but at the time I didnt know what it meant.  I knew something wasnt right 12 days in... .Something seemed off, but couldnt work it out... .and tbh I didnt listen anyway, I didnt care, as what was going on was far too exciting to turn away. 

Im paying the price now though.  I think I knew early on that this wasnt sustainable, but I just didnt care.  It was nuts and crazy.  I guess it wasnt me, and I wanted a change from my boring ex marriage.
I just thought that things would settle down... .like a normal relationship... .But they just got progressively terrible... .but then again, I cant even remember what I was thinking

Im trying to learn, because without knowledge I wont recover.  I need to forgive myself for acting the way I did coz what she did was just not right, or normal, or in anyway civilised.  I understand the term "crazy making" now, and Im slowly getting that she is mentally ill... .  and thats a sad thing for her I guess, coz without help shes never going to be happy. 

But for my recovery I cant be caring about her anymore, cant worry if she's ok.  I need to concentrate on me.  Im sure she never set out to do damage,
but she has in a big way because of her illness and warped view of reality.  And the sad thing for me is, that she has no idea what she's done to me and us.
I go through a whole host of emotions and these seem to change every hour, from anger (completely played me), to hurt (Ive lost her), to sorrow (her illness), but the more I read, the more I'll come to terms with the fact that it's an illness, coz as we all know, its still hard to accept it is, and that what we could have done to be different would have saved it... .

Thanks for this forum - without it, I would go more insane :P

[once removed]

hi confusedbloke,

i bumped your post here because while i understand things are fresh and you are grieving, you also seem eager to dig deeper while you grieve. no easy balance, and no pressure to favor one more than the other.

I feel she feels she did everything she could for the relationship, and blocked out all the BPD traits of hers... .plausible deniability. 
I think this is why she is so happy to move on... ."she did her best" in her head, and I didn't meet her impossible expectations...   They just got more and more ludicrous.  And she said "enough, I cant waste any more time on him and his attitude toward me".

one thing i have learned is that two people breaking up are usually on very different pages. its hard to get a good read on how the other person is feeling, whats going on in their head. its also true that usually the person doing the breaking up usually feels justified in doing it, sometimes if theyre feeling conflicted theyll marinate on thoughts that reinforce their decision. so theres probably a lot to that.

So what am i learning?  And how did it speak to me?
I think the main thing Im learning that it is a severe and damaging mental illness.  Im learning that it is an illness and not someone being horrible on purpose, they just cannot help it, like I cant help breathing.

i think this is important to learn about. if we walk away with a narrative that there was a plot to hurt us going on within our relationship, it can be really damaging and frightening, though i can see how it can feel that way. when you put some light on it, it doesnt really hold up. learning about BPD will also help separate what was your "stuff" and what was hers. what was pathological and what wasnt. it fills in a lot of the blanks.

But who would possibly know all this at the beginning?  You only know about it once your hooked and you research to find out what the hell is going on... and by then its too late.

go back to the beginning.

https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/index.php?topic=287569.msg12709041#msg12709041

you describe a lot of early warnings, and how fast things moved in spite of that.

it was never too late to do something. ending it was one option. for most of us, unintentionally, what we did is make things worse. for most of us, once we found ourselves in a relationship that was catching water, we waded deeper into dysfunction. thats part of the baggage we want to let go of and the knowledge/skills we want to gain and take into future relationships.

Ive also learned about gaslighting.

since this is an advanced board, i should tell you that you wont find the term "gaslighting" in most clinical settings. the term derives from the plot of an old movie by the same name where a man deliberately and intentionally conducts a series of events in order to convince a woman that she is insane. its not a realistic picture of what we experienced and in my opinion it obscures the issue. most of the time, its used to describe two people arguing that simply held wildly different perspectives and one or both are particularly insistent upon their version. lets take your example:

She had a tattoo on her stomach with her ex bf's name on it.

... .

she said "no its my nieces name, and this is short for it"

... .
Utter fabrication... .! 

confusedbloke, i think a more fitting term for this would be "my ex lied". why? you touched on it: because she was embarrassed. embarrassment is a common motivator for lying. weve all done it. and a tattoo of an ex is really embarrassing. where BPD might come in is that pwBPD are more sensitive than average to being exposed to embarrassment.

what i think is important to take away was that this made you feel uneasy. you dont trust people that lie about little things. you should gauge how highly you value that and what it may or may not be indicative of. one of my best and closest friends lies to me on a regular basis about his sexual escapades. i dont really know why. doesnt really hurt our friendship, i trust him fully in lots of ways. id probably grade it more harshly within the confines of a romantic relationship.

What have I learned... .Hmmm... .to trust my gut instinct... .but at the time I didnt know what it meant.  I knew something wasnt right 12 days in... .Something seemed off, but couldnt work it out... .and tbh I didnt listen anyway, I didnt care, as what was going on was far too exciting to turn away. 

identify and trust your values. assess your boundaries. and chalk some of it up to "i didnt know what i didnt know". then keep learning 

I understand the term "crazy making" now

can people make us crazy? sometimes i think the term is really more about how we (do or dont) respond to adversity and conflict. think about it this way: if a stranger walked up to you and treated you in the manner your ex did, you would react very differently. ill grant you our exes arent your average adversity or conflict, and thats why i think it matters. because our response was to wade deeper into more adversity and more conflict. we got swallowed up.

I go through a whole host of emotions and these seem to change every hour, from anger (completely played me), to hurt (Ive lost her), to sorrow (her illness), but the more I read, the more I'll come to terms with the fact that it's an illness, coz as we all know, its still hard to accept it is, and that what we could have done to be different would have saved it... .

i think youre right that learning about BPD should not be about feeling sorry for our exes. but its a great tool for informing your recovery and relationship post mortem. its a great tool for better understanding and therefore depersonalizing some really hurtful stuff that was done to us and expressed at us. its a great gate way for learning more about people and psychology which makes for a better vehicle to navigate the world. keep it up  .

[confusedbloke]

Thank you ever so much Once for taking the time to write back.  I really appreciate it.  You seem so at peace (well done for making it!) and its infectious. 
I want to be in that place too.  I don't want to be bitter anymore.

I do want to dig deeper.  I am grieving unbelievably and ruminating a lot.  In order to heal I need to know the why's, who's and where's of what exactly happened.
I don't want to hate her, and truth be told, I don't.  I love her, and will for a long time.  I know she was a loving, caring woman. 
She was just ill, and saw life in a different way to most people.  And that illness killed us, I cant deny that. 

But now after saying what you said, I want to understand my part more... the whole dynamics.  I have spent 2.5 years blaming her for our downfall...
but I too played a major role in this.  I know her faults... .I need to know mine. 

Its time to put the focus on me, and see what I can salvage out of this... .

I'm hot headed!  It stems from being picked on as a child, a dad that I haven't seen in years and a mother that is emotionally stunted,
having to find places to live... ., bringing myself up etc... .
When I became an adult I thought "I aint taking anymore s*** anymore".  And I haven't. And I fought to get where I am today with no help.
So when you have a woman with BPD and my attitude, you can imagine the sparks that flew... . 
Utterly explosive, loving, passionate, fiery, hate filled, frustrated, anger filled, hard-done-to-ness time.  On both sides.

I wanted to be different after me and ex wife split.  And that was my mindset... .I just wanted to be chilled and enjoy life... .I wasnt angry or hot-headed.
But the hot-headedness was just locked away, because I hadnt dealt with it, or to be honest, I didnt realise I had a problem with it until I got thinking after your message.
I found this out being with this woman... .  It was there for sure but my god it came out again 100x stronger with her.  Ive never said things like ive said to her. 
Truly disgusting.  I spouted pure venom.  It was just fear, confusion, frustration and sadness, that turned me so angry. 
I just didnt understand what made this woman tick. Who does unless youre very established on this subject?

I cant feel guilty about that.  Its done now.  I reacted that way because thats all Ive known as an adult and I was in a situation that I was ill-equipped for.
Defenses up, knives out... ."ATTACK"... .due to unknown and unaddressed issues.

So maybe I can look at this relationship as a wake up call to myself... .to not carry on being like this in life... .think before i react... .
I have to see some positives out of this, if only to grow stronger and be more mindful and happier with myself.

I know she will be hurting right now, but to carry on like we did would have killed us both. 
I said that "I aint going to get over you quickly", and she responded "No me neither".  And I do believe that.

This is the real me... .speaking here, but its just not possible to have a conversation / relationship with someone like this with BPD.  It will never happen.
I get that now... .It just took 2.5 painful, wonderful years.

And I know in order for her to heal, she needs to face up to her faults, admit them, and admit her part in this, and indeed her attitude to life.
I hope she does, for her sake, however she does it.  As I said, she is not a bad woman at all, just ill and its sad.

It was sad when we broke up as she said "I loved you and I always will" - and I believe that too.
I think we stayed together for so long, because we knew that each other were nice people, but BPD and my reactions killed us. 
And Im going to allow myself to be sad about it, because I really am.

Thanks so much for this support, I really need it.  I feel like Ive got so much to say... .I hope thats ok

[once removed]

I do want to dig deeper.  I am grieving unbelievably and ruminating a lot.  In order to heal I need to know the why's, who's and where's of what exactly happened.

youll get there. just keep in mind that your narrative may change and be rewritten several times. over six years later, i still learn from my relationship.

But now after saying what you said, I want to understand my part more... the whole dynamics.  I have spent 2.5 years blaming her for our downfall...
but I too played a major role in this.  I know her faults... .I need to know mine. 

learn the lessons and tools to the right of the board. do yourself a real favor, and learn the ones on the Improving and Saving boards, too, like the communication tools. practice this stuff with everyone in your life.

why? like you, i was pretty eager to learn my role, my faults, the lessons. some of that, the bigger picture of how i was navigating my life, became clearer to me long after the relationship. after i made some more bad relationship choices. after i saw myself bumping up against the same kinds of conflict and struggles. for a year or more after the relationship the only real role/fault i saw was doing a lot of the 'donts' when it comes to the 'dos and donts in a BPD relationship'. that did help, but it also helped down the road when i was able to take BPD out of the equation and just see the dysfunction i was bringing to relationships and other areas of my life. in other words, it may take some more experience, and even some failure for things to become clearer. your open mindedness in terms of seeing it will get you everywhere.

When I became an adult I thought "I aint taking anymore s*** anymore".  And I haven't. And I fought to get where I am today with no help.

it sounds like youre a survivor and a strong guy. remember though that it also takes strength to know when to ask others for help.

So when you have a woman with BPD and my attitude, you can imagine the sparks that flew... . 
Utterly explosive, loving, passionate, fiery, hate filled, frustrated, anger filled, hard-done-to-ness time.  On both sides.

my ex and i fought hard and ugly too. it sounds like you dont want that kind of conflict in your life, so make that high on your list of values. while im guessing you may not have that kind of conflict with most folks in your life, theres a lot of high conflict people in the world that we have to navigate, and theyre the ones that will test you. for a lot of us, we find ourselves diving right into the drama and upping the ante and making things worse. learn the tools, and youll be like teflon.

I found this out being with this woman... .  It was there for sure but my god it came out again 100x stronger

it is possible that it will always be there, to some extent. we cant extinguish all of our experiences or necessarily change long ingrained personality traits. i can be indecisive sometimes, and thats always been the case. i probably always will be, but theres always room for improvement with new tools, with these sorts of things. practicing mindfulness for example (https://bpdfamily.com/content/triggering-and-mindfulness-and-wise-mind) will change your life.

I cant feel guilty about that.  Its done now.  I reacted that way because thats all Ive known as an adult and I was in a situation that I was ill-equipped for.

i think this is true for most of us. in some cases we didnt know what we didnt know. in some cases we knew, but couldnt manage.

So maybe I can look at this relationship as a wake up call to myself... .to not carry on being like this in life... .think before i react... .
I have to see some positives out of this, if only to grow stronger and be more mindful and happier with myself.

again, this attitude will carry you far. its the stuff of moving from "survivor" to "thriver" (https://bpdfamily.com/message_board/images/victim_survivor_1.jpg)

It was sad when we broke up as she said "I loved you and I always will" - and I believe that too.
I think we stayed together for so long, because we knew that each other were nice people, but BPD and my reactions killed us. 
And Im going to allow myself to be sad about it, because I really am.

it is sad. one of the hardest lessons ive learned is that two people can love each other very much and not be able to make it work. it sounds like (in spite of mistakes that we all make) you really gave it your all. this part - fully grieving - is important work, too.

[confusedbloke]

Thanks again Once for your wise words... .and the links.

Yes I am grieving... .I feel I've got passed the denial, depression and bargaining stages and have accepted its over (probably helps that I wanted it to be over, even though it was hard to let go).  And also lifes too short to be wasting it on someone that's not willing to accept any responsibility.  Its simply exhausting. 

Theres 3.5 billion woman in the world, and when I'm ready to try again I will this time have values in what I am looking for, some self respect and be with someone that deserves me and I deserve them.  Although I will be continually looking for red flags I would suspect.  I find myself doing that already when I talk to women   

I guess however I do have a bit of anger left now... .No where near as much as what I had when I was with her, by a long shot.  And that feels good, and Im not going to deny myself or be ashamed that I have residual anger.  That will dissipate in time once I no longer think about her. 

Im starting to smile again at work and having fun with the guys.  Ive been very withdrawn for a few months.  My friend said last night that she has noticed a difference in me already in the last 3 weeks, in that I look happier and getting back to my normal self.

Good thing is also I dont feel panicked anymore, or sweating and clammy handed.  My head is starting to clear and am looking forward to enjoying the world again.

Each day I am breaking out of that bubble that I have been a prisoner in.  And that is really how it feels... .  Ive escaped the mental torture of being with a woman with BPD.  On reflection it all seems so bizarre that we put ourselves through this, just because we care about people... .and we weren't emotionally right to begin with.  I feel stronger now already than I did when I met her.  This has taught me all sorts of things about myself and people in general.

These boards have been amazing help and support.  I would not be where I am now without this forum!  Thank you so much!