Anyone Have or Consider an Affair

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

I am having serious guilt issues over my strong desire to find some outlet for my intimacy and sexual needs (I also just want a woman to be nice to me -- im sure you all know what I mean).  I love my wife, deep down.  Married almost 17 years with 4 kids.  Her BPD has gotten worse and worse over the years and while I don't want to divorce her (because deep down i love her and i DO NOT want to leave my kids) I am craving a real relationship with a woman -- something i don't have.  I feel very guilty about this but I can't deny my feeling this and I don't know what to do. Anyone else dealing with these feelings?  Any advice?  I feel like no one on these boards ever discusses this topic and I can't be the only feeling this way?

[Chalk1]

I am having serious guilt issues over my strong desire to find some outlet for my intimacy and sexual needs (I also just want a woman to be nice to me -- im sure you all know what I mean).  I love my wife, deep down.  Married almost 17 years with 4 kids.  Her BPD has gotten worse and worse over the years and while I don't want to divorce her (because deep down i love her and i DO NOT want to leave my kids) I am craving a real relationship with a woman -- something i don't have.  I feel very guilty about this but I can't deny my feeling this and I don't know what to do. Anyone else dealing with these feelings?  Any advice?  I feel like no one on these boards ever discusses this topic and I can't be the only feeling this way?

[formflier]

You are most certainly not the only one feeling this way and this is an important topic.  Thanks for bringing it up and being vulnerable about your feelings/desires.

Since this is my first time in one of your threads... .I'll push towards the big picture and some "truths".

Having strong feelings (in your case guilt)... .about your feelings.desires is something to look at... .reflect on  and sort out if there is something there for you to change.  Have you ever done therapy?  This kind of task is best done with the help of a skilled therapist.

A healthy goal is that your feelings are valid and something you should be paying close attention to.  Furthermore you should realize if people in your relationships "respect" your feelings or not.  I'm hoping you will respect theirs.

Now... .to the question of whether or not to have an affair.  That's a decision only you can make.  I will tell you it's a generally accepted "truth" that introducing another person into your "intimate life" will create a triangle and will most likely exponentially increase the issues you are paying attention to.

There are lots of "what ifs" to consider... questions to ponder.

Is a "real" relationship possible with an affair partner?

Only you can define what is real... and what you want. 

FF

[BeagleGirl]

Chalk,
I had an affair. It was after 19 years of marriage and, while I had basically given up on my marriage a year before, was not "planned". I can't say it "just happened" because I knew each step of the way what I was walking towards.

My affair started with my affair partner and I agreeing that we had no intention of leaving our marriages.  Like you, we wanted to have our cake and eat it too. Maybe there are some out there who could do that.  We couldn't. It was only a matter of weeks before we started envisioning a life where we could really belong to each other. I started having panic attacks because the life I wanted would destroy two "happy" families. I ended the relationship after 6 weeks, confessed he affair to my husband and tried desperately to rebuild what I had been willing to sacrifice.

That was over 3 years ago. It has taken me this long to reclaim much of what I lost of myself and start to heal from what I chose to do to myself, my husband, my affair partner and his wife and children (my children don't know about the affair but it has still cost them dearly). It has taken me this long to start to see myself as a woman who chose to have an affair rather than as an adulteress. It has taken me this long to start to know, not just believe, that the worst choice of my life will not define me.

But I still hurt every day. I still miss the friend I lost when I chose to enter into an affair with him. I still experience shame and regret when I hear or read his wife's first name. I still ache over the knowledge that I was unfaithful to not only my vows but also to my true self. Not only did I hurt the man I vowed to love, honor, and obey for the rest of my life in the worst possible way, but I handed him a knife that will always cut deep because he holds the truth of what I did. And I still ache for the feeling of being held and loved by someone who I trusted fully even though the very act of holding and loving me when we were not free to do so meant he was not trustworthy.

I still can't bring myself to fully wish that I never experienced that relationship. It brought the beginning of understanding what a relationship with someone who could care more about me than himself could be like. But I do wish that I had respected myself, my husband, my children and the man I would give myself to enough to be free to do so.

I will never again have an affair. I deserve better than a man who would be willing to cuckold another man, much less betray his own wife. I deserve a relationship that doesn't have to be hidden. My children deserve better. They deserve a mother who is honest and faithful. They deserve the honor of being loved by the man who loves their mother. The man I love deserves my fidelity and more than the moments I can steal from those I have pledged them to.

Please know that I definitely understand your feelings. I still struggle with those same desires. I also applaud and appreciate your honesty in expressing them. I think you should keep expressing them.  It's better than denying them until an affair "just happens".  I can definitely give you some "cons" and cautions, but I'm willing to answer questions you may have as honestly as I can.

BeagleGirl

[Notwendy]

When we get married, we don't lose the part of us that can be attracted to people. IMHO ,it is what we do about it that defines our values.

I think it is good that you are aware of this potential, and are honest with yourself. I don't think it is shameful to be aware of the parts of us that make us human- sexual attraction and the desire to connect with people.

I have not had an affair and don't wish to. This doesn't mean I don't have feelings or an attraction mechanism like every one else. I also realize my husband is human too and has to deal with his own human nature. Not having an affair doesn't make me some kind of saint or person without such feelings. In fact, I think it is admitting that we are human that allows us to make choices about it.

I don't think people plan to have an affair. I think they start out quite innocently with a casual friendship that progresses to the point of no return- where the part of us that is human- desire- takes over intention -to honor our marriage. IMHO the way to avoid this is to avoid the friendship in the early stages when we can still keep our head on our shoulders.

I agree with FF, if you are seeking out something that you feel is missing, this is a good topic to explore with a T. One reason not to start an affair if your marriage is unhappy is the nature of dysfunctional relationships. Something about you attracted your wife to you, and you to your wife. This same attractive nature could bring you into an affair with another dysfunctional person. That wouldn't be a solution to your situation.

If you work on yourself, your relationship skills, you may come to a place where your marriage is tolerable, or even better or you choose to to end it-  but whatever your decision, you can make the choice with more clarity. The relationship skills you learn will help you in any relationship. The attention one gives to an affair actually takes attention away from working on yourself. Consider giving this time and attention to working on you, learning self care and relationship skills.

[formflier]

Chalk1,

Do I understand correctly that this is not "just about sex"?  When I read that you want a woman to be nice to you, I'm getting this is "more than sex" or perhaps "not about sex at all".

I get the sense that you feel "limited" in your current marital relationship because of BPD.  Do I have that right?

What would you imagine an affair would be like?  Would their be limits?  Do you think your view of the affair would change over time?

FF

[Hisaccount]

just want a woman to be nice to me

I love it. Exactly what I would have said.

Early on in my marriage I found out she had cheated on me a couple times. I originally thought I was going to get even.
I started shopping () dates and when it came down to it, I could not go through with it. It is just not who I am or who I wanted to be.
But I did have numerous emotional affairs. I didn't understand it as cheating at the time, but it is and it did just as much damage.

Like you said you just want someone to be nice. I started looking for female friends. Friends only. Made it very clear I never wanted to meet. Just someone to talk to.
Where my BPDx and I would email hundreds times a day and always be connected, when she stopped being a part of my life like that I missed it, I wanted it.
So I sought it elsewhere.
I made some pretty good friends.

One day I realized I just didn't have the same desire or patients for my wife as I did. I just didn't care for her because I did have someone in my life that treated me better even though we didn't have a physical relationship.

Think about your end game.
If you want to stay with her and make it work. Don't go looking for something else.

I read somewhere that in a relationship sex is 99% of the problem when you are not having it and 1% when you are.

[oshinko maki]

I understand your situation and feelings. Over 17 years in my case, children, and over 14 years now of celibacy.
I have come to love celibacy, though it was difficult for the first several years, and I am proud that I have never cheated and have stuck to my principles. It depends on your morality outlook though, I admit. I would personally feel worse about myself if I cheated, regardless of my knowledge that everyone I know would say it is justified. Be good to yourself and give celibacy a chance. Missing romance is better than missing your honor.

[pearlsw]

I am having serious guilt issues over my strong desire to find some outlet for my intimacy and sexual needs (I also just want a woman to be nice to me -- im sure you all know what I mean).  I love my wife, deep down.  Married almost 17 years with 4 kids.  Her BPD has gotten worse and worse over the years and while I don't want to divorce her (because deep down i love her and i DO NOT want to leave my kids) I am craving a real relationship with a woman -- something i don't have.  I feel very guilty about this but I can't deny my feeling this and I don't know what to do. Anyone else dealing with these feelings?  Any advice?  I feel like no one on these boards ever discusses this topic and I can't be the only feeling this way?

Just wanted to throw in a few thoughts to the already helpful stuff people have mentioned. If you feel guilty now, just think how guilty you would feel if you followed through with this impulse. It would make the guilt you are feeling now feel like a stone in your shoe compared to the giant boulder crushing your soul/life that an affair would likely become for you.

My advice? If you "love your wife deep down" focus on that and make the best of it... .day after day after day. I get that you are likely not getting all you might want from your partner with BPD. This is a horrible illness and those of us in these relationships function as caretakers and that, frankly, is not sexy or fun a lot of the time. Our emotions and needs are often neglected. It contains a whole lot of disappointment, but we are signed up for this and we have to face the reality of it with as much dignity and grace as we can. An affair will likely take you further away from reality... .not to mention your dignity and sense of self. All that good stuff you have done in your life to this point? Out the window. In an instant.

When you say you are "craving a real relationship with a woman" do you mean sexual needs and/or other forms of intimacy? Is there anything you can possibly do to get more intimacy in your relationship with your wife? At all? I would say the best thing you can do is to have better friendships with male friends. Your feelings/desires would make you very vulnerable if you had any female friends. If I was you I would try to find other ways to find satisfaction and a sense of well-being in life. Take up a new hobby, volunteer, help others in some way, talk to old folks in nursing homes, anything that can give you feelings of human connection.

If you don't want to have an affair don't. Just don't. If this is who you are/what you want then hold tight and stick to this. It will change who are if you have an affair. If you like who you are now, but are missing things in life then find healthy, above board ways to address (to a degree) those needs. Find a way to accept (perhaps with the help of a therapist) that you may not be able to get all your needs met because of your choice to be in this relationship that is apparently missing something for you. Please don't think I am not understanding. If you have no sex life and your life is willing to look the other way and give you a pass then... .that is your mutual choice, with its consequences. But at least it is mutual.

But also be honest with yourself. If you can't go on like this anymore then make a plan and get out of this relationship. There is nothing wrong with wanting to exit a dissatisfying relationship, with rolling the dice and trying to make the kind of life that you want. It is risky. Is that why you don't do it? Are you afraid you won't meet someone new? Are you afraid to start again from zero?  That is all very understandable, but something you can sort out.

Let me assure you... .if you do anything in any way to have an affair of any kind you are hurting your kids -whether they know it or not. You are setting them up for having their own struggles with relationships if you open this pandora's box. It sucks to have a marriage that feels like a prison or has gaping holes in it... .it sucks to feel trapped and stuck. You can talk with us here or with a therapist... .Let your thoughts out... .talk this out. THINK it over. A lot. Look at it from all sides.  

Why do you want this? Can you handle this? Even if you manage to keep it a secret then what? I read once that affairs on average last about 8 months. Then what? Are you prepared for all of the lying, either directly or by omission involved? Are you prepared to add to your life problems instead of possibly solving them? What will you and your affair partner talk about? Your other relationships? Does that sound fun? How about not talking about that and therefore not really being fully open/honest with this new person? How will you feel when you are really not being fully honest with anyone in your life? How would you feel about starting a relationship that is built on a measure of mistrust and therefore means, from the get go, that neither you or the new person can fully trust each other no matter how much you understand/relate to each other? How about if she falls in love with you and wants you to leave your wife or if you want to leave your wife for her? If you want all that, or will at some point, why not just leave your wife now, avoid the lying, and start a fresh relationship without so much baggage?  Are you afraid you will look like the bad guy and your kids would hate you/your future ex would make you out to be the bad guy that broke up the family?

I get it. I had a good friend in college who often had affairs. His last one was devastating. He and his girlfriend didn't live together, lived states apart, their relationship was shaky. He met someone else, started up a little something, his girlfriend back home found out somehow, broke into his emails I think. Anyway... .after that she (and her friends) made sure that his life was hell. She/they wrote anonymous letters to his future employers and tried to get him fired from jobs and ruin his reputation as far and wide as they could. He was a professor and the affair partner was a student, but not his student. His girlfriend assumed otherwise and tried to make that an issue. (This was not against any codes at his workplace.) She wrote/published an article about him slamming him and all he had ever stood for in his life/work that he constantly fears new people in his life will learn about. He lived in fear for years; she followed his every move and made every effort to destroy him. He wanted to quit working, quit doing activism, quit everything. He had loved her, but the relationship was failing, and then he made this choice. Rather then end it he was living in an in-between limbo. I counseled and counseled him for years after this to help him recover. It's been nearly 10 years now and I imagine he still has trauma from all this. He had issues already, personal issues he had to sort out, it was clear, but this only made his life worse. A lot worse.

So, I ask... .what are you prepared to risk or lose? Have you spent your life being a good, honest person? That will be gone. Have you expected others to count on your "good word" and honesty in life? They won't anymore. Do you like people to like you? They will hate you if they ever find out. They will judge you. They won't care how you have suffered, probably terribly, via your wife's illness. They won't care. But you will have a new label. A cheater. A liar. How much are you willing to risk or lose?

[pearlsw]

Oh, and to add... .and even if no one ever finds out... .you will likely be tortured by this. You will feel guilt over your wife and your new partner. You won't even know which one of them you are "cheating" on anymore because you are really "cheating" on both. And if it all blows up in your face are you prepared for wondering if the future former affair partner will be out to get you and destroy your life? Or if she really is wonderful, but you can't be together, but now you have to live with this kind of knowledge... .that there is a great person out there that you love but can't be with... .you will suffer terribly too.

I guess what I am saying is be careful. You may solve one problem short term, a need for sex or intimacy, but the giant range of other problems that can result on top of this... .not worth it most likely. When/if your wife finds out how will she react? How will she handle having a weapon to beat you up with for the rest of your life if your marriage survives this? Few folks outside this board have any knowledge or understanding about this illness and you will be painted as the horrible person. How will she use it go after you in court (whether or not your state has no fault divorce)? It will still be mentioned as far and wide as she sees fit to spread it and since she can't regulate her emotions well how do you think she'll take it? Will she threaten your affair partner? To tell your family, friends, workplace, etc.?

So, my advice is if you want a new relationship do it by the rules. Leave this relationship. Wait a bit. Then try again for a new relationship. It will be a better relationship that you will be able to be proud of even if people are mad at you about it for awhile. If you want this relationship work your best to make improvements and accept its limitations.

If you have a need for intimacy either do it the right way or find another way to broaden/redefine your needs. Hope you don't mind my long reply, just want you to really break this apart. Think this through very, very carefully! Good luck man!

[Notwendy]

The longing for a woman to be nice to you can make you vulnerable. There are genuinely nice people out there- and while we should not be suspicious of everyone, also know that even disordered people can be nice to others initially. Co workers are generally nice to each other too, but this is workplace etiquette, not a prelude to romance. Long term relationships are complicated. The grass can look greener on the other side if we don't know as much about the other person as we know about our spouse.

[formflier]

Perhaps a thoughtful list of the things you are "missing" right now will reveal things that you believe you can "morally solve" outside your marriage, yet not have an affair.

So... ."have a woman be nice to me".  Perhaps you can find or expand current female relationships to accommodate this... somewhat.

"have a woman listen to me".  Perhaps same as above or perhaps you are more comfortable with a female therapist, rather than male.

Anyway... .I would encourage you to start creating the list... .more detail is better.  Then you can be thoughtful about your values and figure out "what is cheating" "what is an affair".

Then... .maybe you find a way to solve a few things.

Thoughts?

FF

[Donalith]

Sometimes I find it helpful to categorize things into "wants" and "needs".

Figure out what you "need". Are you getting it? Is there a possibility to get it? Should you discuss your "needs" with your partner so that they have a "heads-up" that you aren't getting what you've decided you need? Communication is often a great place to start. Things that are decided in a vacuum when you are in a relationship sometimes don't work out as well as we would have hoped.

[Hisaccount]

I am having serious guilt issues over my strong desire to find some outlet for my intimacy and sexual needs

Reading the responses here, there is some really good information.
I can also tell you that I did many of those and it did not help at all.

As for me, I was searching for a feeling. It is not logical. It is a deep burning desire.

It is not just sex and intimacy. It is love. We want to feel loved too.

Do you guys get any time apart? Does she go visit family? or do you? get a few days, or a week apart?
If so then what are things like after?