What do you do when they accuse you of lying?

[JoeBPD81]

I don't know if I'm worn out by everything, and then a small thing can trow me out completely. Or if the thing is not that small.

Everything makes sense when I feel there is some appreciation. When I'm treated like an enemy, everything loses the point, and I feel completelly alone and useless.

OK, the small thing is she telling me I lied. It happens a lot, I'll give you the example of yesterday:

I have to make X hours a month at my job. I did the math and found out I only have to work the minimim for the rest of the month (If I make more hours, no one pays them to me). Good news, right? So I tell my Gf. She had told me that she wanted to go back to bed, but she started doing things and she didn't, so I thought she was awake, and I texted her, I'll copy the whole exchange:

Gf
Well thanks for waking me up when I finally warmed up just to let me know that I have to go. Thanks.
Me
I'm sorry for waking you up.
Gf
I would have appreciated that information earlier because then I would have used my time differently. Right now I just want to leave.
Me
I did the math just now
I'm sorry. I have lunch in the kitchen and you don't have to interact. Or I can go have a walk in the new Mall before I go home, and I give you more time
Gf
No, as soon as I am done with your food I am out. I appreciate the apology but it means nothing to me. I feel nothing and I don't want to be around anyone.
Me
So, when it's a good time to arrive?
…
Gf
And no, I don't buy the "I just did the math". You went off yesterday at 14:30 too- you must think that I am super stupid. I just had to say it.

Thanks for not giving me any more crap excuses, THAT I truly appreciate.
Me
I'll appreciate if you don't give me false accusations
Gf
There's no accusation- it's my opinion.
Based on evidence. The time that you went off yesterday, and the fact that you time your work daily for every minute m I have seen the program myself. So get off the high horse. You don't owe me anything, you're not obligated to let me know anything or to warn me and that's a fact. I took it bad and that's another fact. And you tried to fix it with a bull___ excuse, and that's another fact, of which only the bull___ part is my opinion. That's it.
Me
The fact is that there was nothing to fix. And I just related the facts. It's not my fault you don't like them.
If you are interested in the math. I can tell you, but I don't know on what you are interested.
Gf
What I truly don't like is lies and excuses of which you gave me both. That's it. How I take having to talk to anyone when I am like this is my own fault and my own issue. The need to excuse yourself is all yours.

----

This went on a little bit, and then we didn't talk for some hours, I left to study and to not be there and pay our "fight" with the kids. She texted me that she didn't pitty me and that she wasn't going to come after me and that she wasn't sorry about anything. I only texted her info about when I would be home.

I'm never hungry when we are upset, so I only ate a small portion of what she had fixed. She saw what was left and accused me of not eating anything, she said "I'm done with you, you haven't touched the food". I kept my answers to the minimum, and I managed to be nice to the kids.

We said good night and good morning, and that's it. I have no idea what's on her mind. She threw up this mornig, and I told her that I hope she gets better, and she said she's fine.

---

I know I didn't manage the situation well, I know why she says things. She's OK with me if I arrive home by the time she expects me, but she can't stand that I get there earlier, so she leaves the house when there is a change or the time. That's anoying to me, but it's OK as long as we both know I take it for her. If I take things and also have to be called a liar, that pushes me to the edge.

I don't mind if you point out all the things that I did wrong there.

Lying is "my button", I can be called many things. But I consider myself a normal guy, and my only sure "virtue", is that I don't lie. And I take it very bad when people assume I'm lying. If the other person doesn't believe you, what is the point of communication?

Everytime she thinks I lie, I feel it like there is a line of reality, and another line that deviates from it. In one line I'm there. In the other line there is a version of me that she thinks I am, that did what she thought I did, and then lied about it. From every event, the line goes further appart from the original line. So I feel she is with one person that doesn't exist. Many times, it is a stupid fact like this one, other times they are truths that are very important.

I already have trouble believing she loves me, but even if I do, Who is she loving? A person that did all the things I didn't do and then lied about them? That's not me.

So we argue, and I know we shouldn't, I shouldn't JADE. But I'm left with the feeling that we are strangers. I don't know how to talk to her, or how to let it go. Her family lies all the time, and it is proved, and she knows, but she doesn't have the need to call them liars or to be sarcastic when they wake her up, only I have that "special treatment", when I go out of my way to be nice to her.


Any advice?

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[pearlsw]

Hi JoeBPD81 ,

I understand how this BPD stuff can take a toll on you. Lately I am noticing although things are going relatively well, it is actually me who has a lot of pent up resentment. I'm trying to work on it. 

I have found that whether I have been in a relationship with a non or someone with BPD traits at some point I notice I am treated worse than any other person in their life. I have seen that that is just a part of relationships to one extent or another whether I like it or not. I have managed to bring up this topic without making it accusatory. I think it happens because people tend to let their guard down, take shortcuts, don't try as hard at home as at work, lots of reasons. I think when I deliver it with a bit of understanding that this can happen, but with some hope that awareness might change it, I have seen positive results. What's further - I sure hope I am not acting this way - but we probably all do to one degree or another. So, maybe you sell the idea as "Hey, can we both treat each other better? How can we show each other more appreciation?" And brainstorm strategies to make that happen.

This was a big complaint I had with my partner. I spent years being upset he would rarely say "please" or "thank you" for anything. This made him seem pretty awful to me. I didn't like it at all. He figured he could say it once in awhile, or convey politeness with his tone of voice, and that was enough. For me it isn't. Then he tried attacking me back over it instead of just responding to it.

So, it's only take 6.5 years, but he is now much, much more appreciative. He will stop and consciously thank me for things that he wouldn't have in the past. I think he just got to a point where "making me happy" had real meaning for him and he became willing to do easy things that made me happy whether or not he could relate to my feelings/needs.

If you make showing appreciation a mutual conscious goal, instead of just a charge you make against the other person and expect them to change I think that helps. In my case, it has helped save a damaged relationship.  Now he shows a lot of appreciation and I think he even enjoys it - it creates a stronger bond and much more love which can help heal and prevent other arguments. It helps us both stay in better moods, whereas before I was disappointed, unhappy, and thought he was totally rude (which lowered how I saw/thought of him) and he was defensive/angry.

On your issue, if you didn't lie just stop JADE-ing. That is my advice! If she is name calling you... .calling you a liar when you have not lied, then mentally I'd just swap out that nonsense word for another one. Saying "you are a liar" and "you are a unicorn" would be about the same to me that point. Just nonsense words. I know "liar" can sting, but if you hand that to her as a weapon (by defending against it/showing you are upset) she will keep using it. That is my experience at least. The more it is obvious it bothers you the more it will get used because the goal is often to make you feel the pain she is experiencing and name-calling does that very fast.

I think your best solution here is to find a way to not make this not be such a soft spot for you. I know that is hard! We are trained to think we should defend ourselves against false accusations. But it actually only makes things worse. If you are being falsely accused listen to her feeling instead. Is she upset? Why? Validate the feeling, do not validate the invalid name-calling.

Oh, and do I understand you? She gets mad at you if you come early and will leave if you do? That seems pretty... .odd. Why does that happen?

Wishing you happiness!

[smart_storm26]

Here's is how I would respond

Gf
Well thanks for waking me up when I finally warmed up just to let me know that I have to go. Thanks.

Me: I thought you are awake

Gf
I would have appreciated that information earlier because then I would have used my time differently. Right now I just want to leave.

Me: I did the math just now (same as yours)

Then you went ahead and said
"I'm sorry. I have lunch in the kitchen and you don't have to interact. Or I can go have a walk in the new Mall before I go home, and I give you more time" - Sorry was not needed. What are you sorry for? Validation does not mean being sorry for something you have not done. After saying "I just did the math just now" you should have stopped there
Anyways lets continue... .

Gf
No, as soon as I am done with your food I am out. I appreciate the apology but it means nothing to me. I feel nothing and I don't want to be around anyone.

Remember there was no apology needed. But you gave one and gave her more ammunition for her dysregulation

Gf
And no, I don't buy the "I just did the math". You went off yesterday at 14:30 too- you must think that I am super stupid. I just had to say it.

Thanks for not giving me any more crap excuses, THAT I truly appreciate.

At this point I would stop responding at all. You know these are false accusations. No point trying to explain her. You cutting yourself off and by stop taking to her would have sent a stronger message. Isolate yourself from the negativity. You stayed there and kept taking the shots... .am sure didnt turn out to be healthy for you.

Another thing, even when you are validating, never ever say sorry for something you have not done. When you do that you are not being fair to yourself and will only make you angrier inside with time

[Tattered Heart]

Sorry that you had a rough morning. Looking at your conversation, I see a lot of JADEing by apologizing and explaining right from the beginning. I know it's hard not to respond that way when she starts in on things right away.

To start the conversation it sounds like she was frustrated at having to get up early? Instead of trying to apologize for it next time you could try to validate. "Yeah. It's so hard to get out of bed when you're all warm and cozy."

When she began to talk about not knowing ahead of time that your hours had changed she is saying that she doesn't like to be surprised with a schedule change. You could validate that with something like "Schedule changes can be frustrating because things need rearranged. Is there any way I can help you rearrange things?"

Once the accusations start the best approach is to calmly address the accusation without explaining yourself. Simply stating something like, "I don't like being unjustly accused. Please stop" and ending the conversation. Our workshop on Stop Accusations & Blaming will give further info on how to handle accusations. You know your own truth. You don't have to explain it to her and you may not be able to get her to understand.

[JoeBPD81]

I knew I could count on you, that's excellent advice I'm gonna take to heart and practice.

I would like to know how do you take not being trusted. Emotionally. How do you stay and feel it is worth it to invest in the relationship, when she doesn't know who I am.

The issue with coming home. Well, she has some minutes between when I get home and she has to leave. She forgets things, so when I get there, she loses her concentration and forgets more things. So she prefers to leave early and not see me. Just what you want the love of your life to tell you. We only have ten minutes together alone a day, so I'm gonna leave ten minutes early so we don't have any. I get it, but it sucks. Same way I get she doesn't sleep in my bed, OK... .
I get many things, I relate, but It makes sense while we are on the same team. If what I get in return is name calling, what kind of an idiot I am?

[Tattered Heart]

That's a hard place to be. I struggle with it every few months myself. I shared with a friend my feelings in worrying that my marriage just wasn't going to work out. She told me that she has talked to a lot of couples over the years and she has never seen anyone work so hard at working on the marriage and to not discount the work I had done. And I'd say the same to you.

Our relationships are really hard and we are often so alone. Our partner frequently cannot connect with us even though we want them to. I can imagine how hurtful it is that your W just choses to not see you when she has a little bit of time. Have you had a conversation with her about this, but in a language she can understand.

"I miss you when I don't get to see you during the day. I know the 10 minutes between us leaving can be distracting, but I want to see you, even if it's just for a little while. Could you stick around on Tuesdays and Thursdays so we can have that time together?" (Start small so she doesn't feel overwhelmed with pressure). But she can see that the reason it's important is for the 2 of you to have time together and it allows you to express yourself.

If she agrees, realize that for awhile those 10 minutes might be stressful, so validate a lot and let it be relaxed. This is not a time to begin talking about intense subjects or problems. One easy conversation could just be "Tell me the best part of your day" or "Tell me something exciting about your day." If over time it goes well then try to get another day. Baby steps.

[RolandOfEld]

Hi JoeBPD81, I totally understand the feeling of being worn out by an exchange like this. I had more or less the same one last night and it seems like I'm getting the silent treatment today. I think sometimes we have to try and see the sickness and remember the person we love is still there beneath it. The concept of "dysregulation" has completely upended everything I thought about our relationship, and its clear your SO was dysregulating. I try to remember who I am and that it will end no matter what I say or do.

[isilme]

I hate being accused of lying.  Sigh.  I admit that at this point, I most likely invalidate him while trying to correct him about where his comments are really coming from:

H - you think I am ugly and are ashamed of me
Me - no, YOU think you are ugly and feel I am ashamed of you.  I am not.  That is your anxiety/insecurity/self-consciousness talking.  I think you are attractive and I love you. 

We go through this exchange very often, and mostly it just makes me sad that his mental image of himself is so poor, and that he might actually believe on some level that I am ashamed of him.

False accusations and re-writing history are much more difficult.  I usually weigh whether who said what matters in a conversation before making a statement.  Most of the time, I let it slide because it does not.  Other times I am at a loss, because to challenge it is invalidating, but to let him continue in that vein is wrong. 

[Frankee]

I know how you feel.  I get called a habitual psychopathic liar who can't stop to save my life.  If he feels like something is off, is in a bad mood, something doesn't add up, or he just because confused... then I'm automatically lying.  I've given up even reacting or defending that I'm not.  Waste of my breath.  I just keep carrying on, knowing the truth and having peace of mind that I have a clear conscience.