Being appropriately honest

[Hyacinth Bucket]

About 9 months ago we started setting really stringent boundaries with our dd20. Over the past month or so, particularly after we refused to let her come stay with us when she was at a low point because I had grad school finals, she keeps telling is that we are "breaking up" with her. As an aside, we adopted her when she was 16.

I have been working on being slowly and progressively more open and honest with her about my feelings and where I am at. I suffer from my own mental health issues and while I have become pretty good at setting boundaries with her, just having to do that takes everything out of me some days. It's getting slowly better. I can recover a bit quicker each time. I just want other parents to know that setting boundaries does slowly get easier.

Tonight she called to yell at me about not being a good enough parent. She hung up on me. I texted her and told her that she got a bad deal. She wants to be completely reparented by us, and we aren't capable of it. I told her I thought I could when she was a bit younger but that I saw it wasn't working and that trying and failing was destroying us. I told her that we have to try to work around my inability to give her what she wants (and sometimes needs).

The reality is that she desperately wants to be a kid (when she feels like it) and be taken care of while also doing all the adult things she does. But that part doesn't matter. What's relevant and true is that I really can't give her what she wants. By telling her that I am validating how she feels and setting boundaries for myself. That does not make it easier. I still feel awful that my kid is miserable and feels alone most of the time. I also know, from personal experience, that nothing I say or do will ever be enough to make her feel whole. She has to do that for herself. And it is unfair. It totally sucks. I tell her I wish I could do more and I genuinely do. I wish so much that giving her all the love I have could save her. But it hasn't so far and it won't.

We have a strong bond though and I think it's because I never took her telling me that I was a bad parent for whatever reason personally. I think it's easier because she is adopted. I know she desperately craves love and attention and deals with deep feelings of self hatred.

Tonight she started projecting her own feelings on yo me, which I called out. She was saying that I feel ashamed of her and embarrassed by her. Nope not true. She's trying to explain to herself why I'm not enabling her anymore and going out of my way to bail her out. So I will just keep telling her that I will never leave her but that I either can't or won't do things for her.  

It's all so exhausting. What makes it worse is that she has slept through the last two times we were supposed to hang out and I didn't hear from her until hours later!

PS my husbands and my vacation was amazing and we all survived without too much drama. We were away for 16 days!

Our objective is to better understand the struggles our child faces and to learn the skills to improve our relationship and provide a supportive environment and also improve on our own emotional responses, attitudes and effectiveness as a family leaders

[JustYouWait]

The reality is that she desperately wants to be a kid (when she feels like it) and be taken care of while also doing all the adult things she does.

Hello, darkness, my old friend.  I've come to talk with you again.


I'm sorry that you're going through this, but I'm glad I'm not the only one who is with my kid.  DD 19 positively lives to tell me, "I'm an adult, I'm 19", yet she still wants and feels entitled to: 

free stay at our house
the car we purchased for her use that we pay for
health insurance
car insurance
food
shelter
cable tv
college expenses.

My thought is that she wants to be treated like an adult but taken care of like a child.

Now, don't get me wrong, I think that most, if not all young adults (18-23) struggle with this new independence and sense of self.  Many have the same desires, to be treated like an adult but with some financial backing from their parents, but with OUR kids (with BPD) it's presented with such demand, almost hostility, that it really turns us off. 

I had to have a conversation just last night that living at home with everything being paid for is not actually being an adult.

So, what do we do?  I don't know, I'm currently going through it at the same time you are.  I hope you figure it out, and when you do, let me know what worked, ok?  I'll do the same for you on my side.

[ArleighBurke]

Tonight she started projecting her own feelings on yo me, which I called out. She was saying that I feel ashamed of her and embarrassed by her. Nope not true. She's trying to explain to herself why I'm not enabling her anymore and going out of my way to bail her out. So I will just keep telling her that I will never leave her but that I either can't or won't do things for her. 

Have you read up much on Validating? Because "... .which I called out" and "I will just keep telling her that I will never leave her" don't seem to be validating.

Replace: "She was saying that I feel ashamed of her and embarrassed by her."
       with: "She was saying that IT FEELS LIKE I feel ashamed of her and embarrassed by her."

Would this change your response? She FEELS a yucky feeling, based on some fact that may or may not be true. It doesn't matter whether that fact is true or not - it doesn't change her feeling.

Like a child who is afraid of the monsters in the dark. Telling them there are no monsters doesn't magically make their fear go away!

Her FEELING exists. Yes it's based on bad logic, or even on a lie, but HER FEELING EXISTS!

Validation is not trying to correct her facts. Validation is agreeing with her FEELING. "I'm so sorry you feel that way. It must be horrible thinking that I'm embarrased by you. If I though my parents were embarassed by me I'd feel really crappy too."

[SlyQQ]

I am always honest with Sd ( BPD) but only ever contradict her once to that effect, and do not engage in further ( counter productive and fruitless discussions about such things )

I find validation is often misused and in some cases only prolongs and often reinforces misplaced beliefs, the fact you are listening to what she says and not " arguing" or reflecting ( something they are often oh too aware off ) is often validation enough.

telephone disscusions are terrible with respect to this and engaging in all but peripheral telephone discussions with some one with BPD is something best avoided if at all possible, and an offer to meet to talk about it ( which in and of itself is a means of validation) often worth the effort.

[ArleighBurke]

I find validation is often misused and in some cases only prolongs and often reinforces misplaced beliefs

In a healthy person, beliefs drive emotions. And by changing a person's beliefs, their emotions can follow.
In a BPD person, it is the other way around. Their emotions drive their beliefs. So changing their beliefs does nothing for their emotions.

And it's not just that in their time of emotion they CHOOSE their beliefs that match their emotions - no - this is what a healthy person may do. I tested my BPD wife on this a few times and was totally amazed - in times where she was emotional I completely believe she had ZERO memory or ability to remember anything that didn't support her emotion.

Have you read about the SET (Sympathy Empathy Truth) technique? This is a conversational technique that allows you to validate what she feels, then allows you to "guide her beliefs".  The emotion NEEDS to be dealt with first, before there is any chance she can see a different point of view.

[Scout206]

Dear Arleigh Burke

Thank you. Your post gave me a lot to think about in my own situation.  I appreciate you sharing this insight.

Scout206