She moves out today and is all over the place

[lighthouse9]

Hey good people,

UBPDw moves out today and as sad as I am, I'm really looking forward to some space away from her flailing around. She hadn't told anybody at work about moving out and everyone found out yesterday, which lead to a bunch of meetings with superiors about the separation/(pending divorce?) and then finding out she was assigned to training in another state in about a month, for a period of almost two months. Needless to say, I came home to a very emotionally charged, highly reactive, and super confusing person, all right before she moves out. I tried to be supportive (I was extremely supportive all day) and then last night enforced some boundaries and pulled myself away from her flailing.

Rational minded me saw the training as a good thing - it would allow me to stay in the house a bit longer since she will be out of state, which means I can stay at my job a bit longer and not start working remotely immediately. I made the decision about a week ago that I'll be moving out of state because I don't want to be right down the street from her through this process. Now, knowing that she'll be out of state, it seemed perfectly rational that I might stay here a bit longer. She was sending me texts earlier in the day about it being fine for me to stay longer, and then as soon as I got home and suggested one more month she flipped out on me. Then she started attacking me for the *two* times that I showed some weakness about the affair she had (I mentioned having obtrusive images about her sexually with this person, more to name it myself and give it less power) and she told me I was making it so hard to come home and be around me because I keep reminding her of the affair. This couldn't be further from the truth. I've been supportive in ways that are almost superhuman and have processed my feelings about the affair away from her, because I know she can't handle them. I finally called her out because I had had enough and said "you know I apologized immediately after saying those things out loud, I never attacked you or blamed you, and was just naming something for myself, but even though I've been on my best behavior you still have to find that one time I slipped up to justify hating me." I know I know - JADE... .but seriously folks I hit my limit.

She then went into her new thing, which is that I won't give her what she wants (aka divorce) and I just kind of chuckled and was like seriously just go file if you want it that badly, I'm not holding you back. I requested that she consider a month of counseling before filing, just to get out of crisis, but last night, in her total dysregulation, she had spun it up that I was holding her in the marriage (which I have zero power to actually do. The lease is hers. We live here because of her career. I'm on her health insurance. My world, because of her career, is built around her.)

Mind you, in the morning, she was being sweet and open and even came into my bedroom to hug me and leaned into kiss me, only kissing my cheek right at the last moment. I asked her last night why she keeps throwing so many mixed signals. Closeness and admitting that she's confused and doesn't know what to do, and then the next minute blaming me for keeping her in the marriage and trying to control her. I gave up last night and said enough. Then, she did the "you mean the world to me, you're the last person I wanted to hurt, you should wish you never met me so I couldn't have done this to you" and I responded "ok, but I'm also the person who won't give you a divorce and isn't listening to you. I'm both right now, aren't I? Your hero and your enemy." She just nodded and said "I'm so f-d up and this is why I have to leave." I told her to go. Told her to go figure out whatever it is she needs to figure out and that I'll sign whatever she puts in front of me. I'm done with the back and forth.

This morning, I came downstairs and she had packed up just about nothing in our shared space and barely went through our belongings to determine what was hers and what she was going to take with her. Again, I had had it. I made a pile of her stuff, because she keeps saying "oh I'll be back to go through this stuff" and I really don't want to keep doing this. She rented a truck, but supposedly has no time to actually move everything (it's honestly less than one cargo van - I have the entire 3 bedroom house to go through myself, garage and shed and garden included). She also spent the time she was supposed to be packing while I was out lecturing just tooling around.

I know, I know. This is BPD. This is what it looks like and what did I expect? But wow, I just needed to vent. I told my best friend this last night and it rang really true: "My wife is leaving, and she's not even here." I know she's here, but the last two months of our life have been like living with a completely different person who swings wildly between idealizing me and demonizing me. And yet, through all of it (until last night), I've been able to just be a calm, strong, loving force. Last night I just couldn't do it completely. I didn't blame or shame her. I just pushed back. She kept saying "why don't you hate me. I you should just hate me." I don't hate her. And I told her that she doesn't get to tell me how to feel about her. She's taken everything and burned everything down in the last month. She doesn't get to take my feelings or my hope. I got angry when I said that. I told her that I wasn't going to just demonize her to make things easier, when it's not how I feel. She's struggling right now and I committed to her, for life. So this is not my choice to end the marriage. None of this has been my choice, and no amount of telling me how awful she is will make me just think she's broken or evil. But, I think I've hit my limit for the time being. I can't do this right now. I need her out and I need her to stay out for a bit, and leaving things in the house to keep me tied to her isn't going to work.

This just feels so textbook and it sucks. How do you all do it? She goes away for a training for a week, I'm considering going no contact for the week until she comes back to town.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[pearlsw]

Hey lighthouse9,

Oh, there is so much going on here! I thank you for writing this out for the selfish reason that I may go through a breakup soon too and it is helping me to mentally prepare by reading these kinds of reminders.

It sounds like your breakup is hard because you don't really want it. Is that right? You wanted a lifetime commitment, but you simply can't go on as things are. It sounds like she wants you to hate her? That somehow if you hate her it sort of lets her off the hook a bit, but you aren't hateful so you can't generate hate towards her. I can relate on that point as well, I am not able to feel so hateful towards people, my default tends to be towards understanding as my way to make sense of things.

Your NC idea seems fine. Do you think you'll be able to sustain it? I sense some hesitancy there?

Does she want a divorce? How do you see this playing out over time? Sounds like she's in no hurry to file.

take care, pearl.

[Tattered Heart]

I'm so sorry about all the back and forth between her decision. I can imagine how confusing it is and I hate that it creates a need for you to move so quickly.

I may have missed it, but are you staying until she returns from her 2 months away or are you moving out now? Since her job now knows about the separation does that affect things?

Going NC for the week she is gone may give you some clarity and take some of the charged up emotion out of things.

Do you think she backed off of the divorce threats because your response was that she could follow through on the divorce if she wanted to? So then she had to decide whether to take action or not?

[lighthouse9]

Hey Pearl and Tattered Heart -

Pearl: I'm so sorry you might be going through this soon, too. It felt so out of nowhere, which gave me hope that maybe post-dysregulation she might come back. I definitely didn't want the break up, and really believe I could take on the partner/care-taker role if we get the right support. Things definitely couldn't go on though, the last two months have been awful.

I think she did want me to hate her. Don't BPD folks tend to do that so that they can hate themselves more? Like "look how much I hurt this amazing person, I must be awful" as a form of self harm. I kept reminding her that any hurt I took on was my own process and that I was working towards making it such that her choices were no longer my consequences. I'm not going to bite on the "just hate me" thing. It's not for me, it's for her and I'll decide what I feel.

Re: No contact: I decided to go contact with boundaries. After the move out, I asked her to contact me when she was leaving and then said we would talk again this morning to discuss anything else, but let's take the night off. My rationale for that was that I expected her to subconsciously "plant" things around the house for my return, and I was right. I didn't want to spend the night fighting over text about things she left or things she didn't do that she said she would. She left a bunch of things I know she wants and she also put a bunch of stuff in the donation pile that she knows I might want, so when she texted earlier in the day to say that she would be back on Saturday to make a Goodwill trip, I had a feeling that meant "go check out the goodwill pile - it's going to upset you." Thus, I decided that there was no need for a goodwill trip today nor was there a need for her to stop by (she asked to come by to drop off cat food, another unnecessary thing) and requested that we connect next weekend when she is back in town (she's off to training again).

I then said hey, I'm not abandoning you or running or feeling any hate towards you, but I would like a little bit of space right now to process and get some clarity. Can we go no contact until midweek and check in then with a phone call? She said yes, that's perfect - you know I work well with boundaries and structure. I said yes, me too - we've been having amazing text convos and even been flirty during the week while at work, but I need some space from that for the moment so let's back off for now. She said yes, that's a good idea, because without you putting the boundary up I'll continue to have those fun convos with you and that's not a good idea. Then she said "I respect the sh*t out of you, I hope you know that."

This is why I won't hate her. These moments, where she says things like "I respect you" feel like they're not coming from idealization or demonization. I'm hoping that by modeling self-respect, I am doing my best to invite her into finding it for herself.

My hesitancy with no contact and boundaries is that I miss her, I very much want this to work, so I enjoy the texts and the flirty convos. But, I can't have those and then be told later that I'm preventing her from divorcing me. Thus, no flirty convos for now - even if I'm going to really miss them.

TH:

I'd like to stay here until she returns from training, but she's making it pretty clear that that won't work for her. Now that her job knows about the separation, it could help me - if I wanted to get her supervisors involved - but that would only cause more trouble and I really don't have to stay here, it would just be nice to stay a little longer. Who knows, another few weeks in this place and I might be dying to get out. Just going to sit with the uncertainty for now, while knowing I have a solid exit plan.

I agree - a little bit of NC or boundaries around contact should help us both take a little charge out. I had some really interesting dreams last night. I had three that I remember, where the two of us were trying to spend time together in a less charged way, but each time she would say or do something that pushed a button for me. It was like I was glimpsing what it would look like to rush back into things too quick - and it was what December looked like around here. It felt like I was driving my teenager around town, going to things, and being scared to death what kind of embarrassing thing she might do or what kind of embarrassing thing she might provoke out of me, more so. We always had a problem with going out. She always had me charged up that I was no fun to be around and couldn't connect with her friends, but looking back, she often did something to remind me of that and then provoke me right before going out. I was always on edge and fearful that I was going to screw something up. I'm done doing that, and the dreams felt like those moments.

I have no idea if she's backing off on divorce or not - my sense is that a bit of low contact will turn into her attaching elsewhere and getting up the courage to talk to a divorce lawyer, so I will probably have papers to sign within the month. I do think she's serious about needing out right now. I also think that if she got into a good therapist, DBT focused, she might back off. But, the chance of that happening is dwindling, and this training will make it impossible for her to stay connected to someone. My hunch is that she will no longer reach out for help, now that she's going to be leaving in a month. I won't come back if there's no help, so this will either just seal the deal or prolong things.

She hasn't asked me to stick around - but I'm bracing myself for that. She's pretty impulsive though, and still dysregulating big time, so I would put money on her following through with the divorce sooner rather than later.

My goal through all of this is the following: to just be proud of the person I am in this process, so I can look back and say "look at you, you were strong. You were the lighthouse in the storm." It won't negate the hurt and the loss and the grief, but it will give me something to stand on: integrity.

Thanks for the support, both of you - it's been quite grounding to spend time on here.

[pearlsw]

Hey lighthouse9, 

Add me to the list of people who respect you! I am really impressed you are able to handle your breakup in such a decent and calm way - I long for that myself. Breaking up is not the end of the world, unless you make a giant drama out of it... .and even then... .that is temporary.

So, do you think there will be something between you two later, although you are divorcing? I admire your willpower on avoiding the flirty convos - that sounds fun, but too complicated under the circumstances!

take care, pearl.

[Radcliff]

Hi lighthouse9,

I'm catching up on your story.  I like how you are being diligent to not add fuel to the fire.  It takes hard work to get to that point.  I am sure it was not easy at all.

I especially respected how you made her responsible for any potential divorce.  Good move.  If she wants it, she can make it happen.  It's quite common for our pwBPD to try to get us to jump to do things they are not comfortable doing for themselves.  That can create huge problems.  Big things are a lot of work for a reason, so they are not easy to do.  If we do the heavy lifting on big things for our pwBPD, they can really whip the world around with no effort at all!

WW

[lighthouse9]

Hey WW,

Thanks for checking in - I really appreciate it. Your current story reminds me of one with an ex of mine. Not to the same extent, but boy if we would have stayed together longer I could have seen it going that way. We worked together in a graduate program and I had to get the graduate school involved in a no contact order, because I was too afraid that a restraining order would actually incite her to do more violence. She used to get physically aggressive with me, even assaulting me once after we were intimate, and then would stand there and tempt me to be aggressive back, making note of how the "authorities" would never believe that a sweet little girl like her was the abuser. It was infuriating, because she was right - if I were to fight back, I would probably really hurt her, and then yes, I would probably be the one going to jail. When I went no contact at school, she used to circle my neighborhood and eventually moved into it within a few months with my replacement. Every activity I had, friend group, etc, she tried to infiltrate and usually succeeded. I had to "make myself boring" according to my therapist at the time: become someone so unappealing and uninteresting that she would eventually realize there was nothing fun to kick around and move on. It worked, but in the meantime, there were periods of her sending me pictures of her father's guns as a "Wow, how crazy is my dad that he owns these?" kind of texts, but the subtext was obvious: "I have access to weapons."

I many times broke down and cried in my apartment, just sobbing on the floor, especially when I would catch a glimpse of her car circling the neighborhood. She dated a woman briefly who lived a few blocks away and somehow encouraged her to park her car right in front of my house in a snow storm, as if to mark her territory and make it obvious that she could come around at any moment. It was terrifying and maddening and if it weren't for the domestic violence specific counseling program I was in at the time, I wouldn't have made it. Too many people in my life didn't get it and couldn't understand how someone strong and tough like me could be pushed to the point of holding myself in the fetal position on my bedroom floor sobbing. My dad even used to say "I'd like to see her try to rough you up," with no regard to the consequences if I did. I can't tell you how many times near the end of that relationship that I had to take her aggressive advances and subdue her, wrapping my arms around her and holding her wrists down while holding her close to my body until she calmed down. I'm sure you know that feeling - where a part of you knows that the safest thing you can do is hold her close and soothe her, while the rest of you is revolting and is scared and just wants to either fight back or run away.

Again, not the same as what you're going through - but as someone who is yes, female bodied, I identify more with masculinity and the world identifies me with it, too. Thus, the domestic violence was not something I really thought could happen to me and it's something that a lot of people still struggle to believe me when I get up the courage to tell them about it. Not that feminine women don't go through this, too, but I'm so programmed to fight, rationalize, be the stronger person, that this was just so counter to how I operated.

Thanks for respecting my decisions about divorce and for validating the work I'm doing to not add fuel to the fire. I've had a ton of flashbacks recently to that bad relationship from before, so much so that I've struggled to remember my wife's name and could only hear my ex's name in my head. That's PTSD right? The only good thing about that, is that it reminds me how much work I did to get here, to even be healthy enough to enter a relationship and eventually marry someone. When this all went downhill, I knew what it was immediately and acted immediately. It's not to say that it hasn't been maddening, but I've been working really hard to apply the lessons from before, for myself, and for my wife, who I know is suffering and who I desperately would love to ease that suffering.

I'm trying not to be the white knight here, who walks into the lawyer's office and hands over my sword and my weapon and ends the marriage myself. It's not what I want. I won't let her take that from me, even if it's the last thing I have. She can't take away my desires and feelings. She's done that enough. And if all I'm left with is my grief and my pain, then so be it - they're both MINE - and in time, those two things aren't final emotions - they grow, they transform, and what they turn into will be mine, too. Looking forward to connecting with you more on here - this crap ain't easy but hey, if you're going to go through hell, at least go through it for a reason.

Pearl -

Thank you as well for checking in and for the respect. I really enjoy your insights and promptings on here. I'm not sure if there will be something for us later, even if a divorce goes through. Prior to our relationship, she was pretty good at "out of sight, out of mind" and I wouldn't doubt that that is where she is headed with us, too. Her career makes it easy for her to rationalize that we won't work out, since I'd have to continue to follow her around the country/world in order to make it work. It's not my ideal situation, but I would do it, and have done a lot in the last few years to make my own career portable. Still, she feels really guilty for moving me around, and I think that contributes to her pushing me away. When I get sad about this lifestyle (which any person married to it does at one point or another), she blames herself and paints herself black for taking me away from some magical awesome life she thinks I had before. I did give up a lot to follow her here, but I wanted to leave where I was, regardless of the losses. Also, I'm a family person. I would always choose a life with a partner over my career (to a certain extent) and have been able to make so much meaning in this life/world that I couldn't imagine being who I am without it right now. So, long story short: I can see a way forward, but I'm working on being ok with uncertainty, and that means letting go of the pieces of this that aren't mine. For there to be a way forward, she has to do her work, which would include either interrogating if she really wants this career or dropping the guilt over me following her.

The flirty convos - ugh it sucks. I'm going through serious withdrawal right now and want a hit of her so bad - even dysfunctional her, as I said earlier. One of the things making it easier is remembering how she was able to carry them on and sleep with her affair partner later the same day. We talked about it and she felt awful about it, but it doesn't mean she's going to stop herself. Just this last week, as I think I said, she would carry on the good convos, reassuring me that I would be secure and that I could stay as long as I needed in the house - and then lashed out at me later when I suggested staying another month for my job. I can't do that whiplash. She's not dependable, so I'm an idiot if I stay and depend on her. Flirty conversations only do one thing: seduce me into thinking she's still here. I don't doubt that a piece of her still wants this, but like WW said - she's going to have to do the heavy lifting on that one, too. The way I see it, she made this mess, and there are two ways to clean it up and do the heavy lifting to get out: start the divorce process and follow through on it, or start the reconciliation process, and follow through on it. The in between only serves to frustrate me so I do her dirty work. Not doing it. Picking up my life and everything she's managed to destroy recently is work enough and I'm exhausted.

Sending hugs and thanks to you both,

-L

[Radcliff]

Yes, lighthouse9, you nailed it.  If you are physically more imposing and yet not willing to use physical violence, the tides can get turned on you in a crazymaking way.  There is something especially distressing about being physically capable of defending yourself, and yet not doing it.  A sacrifice of personhood (though that is a result of many different forms of abuse).

One of the things I've been doing to cope with the separation and my many different kinds of feelings about what happened is to get a little more going on in my solo life, volunteering, spending time with friends, etc.  Can you beef things up in any of those areas for yourself?

WW