Taking inventory: In dating, women want to be chased; I want to be met halfway

[How to communicate after a contentious divorce...]

Hey guys. So I'm well over my uBPDx I dated almost 4 years ago (thank god) but I wanted to chat with you guys and kind of take some inventory because that was the first relationship of my life and I think having had my first relationship experience go that horribly has had a profound affect on me and my dating life.

What usually happens nowadays is I meet a girl online, they usually ask me out because I'm pretty passive (and have been caring less and less about meeting people really), then I need to plan the date, pay for it, ask her out again sometime afterward, etc (because they won't). For the most part it feels like work and like they aren't doing their part or putting in much effort. And I think that coming from a relationship where my ex put in TOO MUCH effort makes it seem all the worse. Really I'd want a middle ground, but the fact is most women seem to want to be chased and to me that's really not worth the time or effort. I just want to feel like I'm being met halfway, but most (of the women I find physically attractive) won't do that, or at least not until it's too late and I've already checked out.

Now, soon after my experience with my ex I actually did take part in the stupid chase with a few women for longer than I should have, and ever since I have grown to have a shorter and shorter leash as far as how long I'm willing to pursue a girl who seems to think that she doesn't need to put in any effort. It's about a date or two now, and if I don't see any effort on their part to start conversations, ask me out, plan a date, etc, I'm out. The problem is most of the women I meet seem to think that being chased is their birthright... .

Another thing I wanted to mention was that my friends set me up with a girl a few weeks ago while at a bar and I ended up going home with her (no hookup, just cuddled in the end). While in bed she did things like rest her head on my chest, gave me random kisses on the neck, etc... .and I was kind of repulsed by this to be honest. I think that was in part because it was a red flag that I learned from my ex, but to be honest I don't think I really ever want a girl to act like that towards me (lovey dovey or whatever). I have come to a point where I really don't feel good about romance in that way, what I think I want is basically a monogamous friends with benefits type relationship... .But I'm not sure if that's because maybe I'm afraid of getting hurt if I get emotionally close with anyone.

Anyway, I just kind of wanted to express how I'm feeling and see if you guys might have any advice or might be able to relate... .

[cleverusername]

Hey guys. So I'm well over my uBPDx I dated almost 4 years ago (thank god) but I wanted to chat with you guys and kind of take some inventory because that was the first relationship of my life and I think having had my first relationship experience go that horribly has had a profound affect on me and my dating life.

What usually happens nowadays is I meet a girl online, they usually ask me out because I'm pretty passive (and have been caring less and less about meeting people really), then I need to plan the date, pay for it, ask her out again sometime afterward, etc (because they won't). For the most part it feels like work and like they aren't doing their part or putting in much effort. And I think that coming from a relationship where my ex put in TOO MUCH effort makes it seem all the worse. Really I'd want a middle ground, but the fact is most women seem to want to be chased and to me that's really not worth the time or effort. I just want to feel like I'm being met halfway, but most (of the women I find physically attractive) won't do that, or at least not until it's too late and I've already checked out.

Now, soon after my experience with my ex I actually did take part in the stupid chase with a few women for longer than I should have, and ever since I have grown to have a shorter and shorter leash as far as how long I'm willing to pursue a girl who seems to think that she doesn't need to put in any effort. It's about a date or two now, and if I don't see any effort on their part to start conversations, ask me out, plan a date, etc, I'm out. The problem is most of the women I meet seem to think that being chased is their birthright... .

Another thing I wanted to mention was that my friends set me up with a girl a few weeks ago while at a bar and I ended up going home with her (no hookup, just cuddled in the end). While in bed she did things like rest her head on my chest, gave me random kisses on the neck, etc... .and I was kind of repulsed by this to be honest. I think that was in part because it was a red flag that I learned from my ex, but to be honest I don't think I really ever want a girl to act like that towards me (lovey dovey or whatever). I have come to a point where I really don't feel good about romance in that way, what I think I want is basically a monogamous friends with benefits type relationship... .But I'm not sure if that's because maybe I'm afraid of getting hurt if I get emotionally close with anyone.

Anyway, I just kind of wanted to express how I'm feeling and see if you guys might have any advice or might be able to relate... .

[Jeffree]

Clever,

Man, that sounds like quite the conundrum.

I've been burned big time twice.

I don't even bother with online dating anymore. I tried it once for 6 months and had zero luck, and I don't like that whole setup of having to sweep a woman off her feet instantly or be thrown away. Plus, it lends itself to all sorts of lies and deception.

I'd say I'm a reasonably normal dude, but have had no luck online or in the area in which I live finding someone's company to enjoy. I'm also only moderately interested in being fawned upon like you were on that set-up date. It just seems to put the woman in this place of expectations that I didn't meet with either of my wives, so I am not eager to get into that either.

I can see where FWB could be a thing, but I wouldn't expect it to be monogamous... .nor would I even expert her to agree to those terms. I am also not all that into "just sex." I'm a grown man, had plenty of great sex with my STBx, I need something a lot more than that to truly enjoy a woman's company again.

Sorry I'm not being much help here, but I will say that I can at least relate.

J

[BeagleGirl]

Cleverusername,
This is a great general topic, but I will start with my thoughts on your specific situation.
It's great that you've moved on from your pwBPD.  I personally don't use readiness to date/have a new relationship or level of emotional healing as a measure for how "over" my pwBPD I am.  I think I have plenty of issues to work through, even without the whole pwBPD thing that influence those areas of my life.

A few thoughts crossed my mind as I read your post.  One is that you sound like you might be suffering from some depression.  If your lack of enthusiasm extends beyond dating, it might be something to look into.  Another is that your feelings make a lot of sense when put in the context of someone whose first relationship hurt them deeply.  I think there may be a tendency to define a good relationship as "not what I had before".

I think that we all have expectations of what love will look like that are influenced by the relationships we have observed in movies, books, people around us, FOO, etc.  I think that part of the healing process is to uncover those expectations and examine them.  Some of them are worth keeping.  Some need tweaking.  Some need to be discarded.  My plan is to do a lot of that before I get into another relationship.  I'm in the process of divorcing my dBPDh whom I met and started a relationship with when I was 14.  He was my first relationship, so I can totally relate.

Now for the whole "women expect men to do all the work" topic, which I think has a lot of potential for some good discussion.

I think most women are raised to believe that they should be pursued.  In fact, my hairdresser talked at length last week about a books she's been reading that encourage her to remember that she is "the prize" and  any man who is not willing to work to win her should be dumped immediately.  As someone who is known for my tendency to "over function" in relationships, this is something I am putting some credence in (not the dumping immediately, but it's definitely a red flag if I'm taking charge of moving the relationship forward).  
At the beginning of a relationship we are all trying to put our best foot forward, and women have been told over and over that they can't seem too eager.  

As a woman who may be entering the dating world for the first time at age 42+ (I don't really count the beginning of my first relationship as dating because I wasn't even allowed to date until I was 16), I'm hoping that the men I date will cut me some slack in the beginning as I try to follow the "rules" or have the courage to have an open conversation about these things early on.  I also hope that I will have a pretty good idea of what I am looking for in a relationship, not just looking for the anti-BPDh and not falling back into the same patterns that I had with dBPDstbxh.  

Back to you... .I think it's good that you are talking about how you are feeling.  I personally think that you should take some indication from the feeling that you don't really want to "chase" a woman as a cue to consider whether you're not ready to chase anyone (in which case you can relax and focus back on friendships and your own emotional healing) or whether you've just not met the woman who is worth chasing (here you can focus on knowing what you're looking for so you know when to pursue and find ways to meet and evaluate women, maybe without as much pressure as a bunch of one on one dates).  When you are "evaluating" in a more one on one setting, remember that you still have some wounds that a woman may inadvertently irritate.  It's okay to say "I'm feeling uncomfortable" and maybe take a break until you clear your ex from your mind enough to clearly see the woman in front of you.

Oh, and I definitely expect to be pursued by a man, because I believe we all have a drive to pursue beauty and the pursuit holds its own joy.  I'm not talking about a marathon with unnecessary hurdles.  Just the fun of of the chase with plenty of rewards of catching the beauty along the way. 
BG

[Lucky Jim]

Hey cleverusername,  In my view, it's about getting to know someone and letting the r/s unfold naturally.  I find that trying too hard can have the opposite effect: it seems forced and can turn people off.  Instead, I suggest letting go of the outcome and work on connecting with the person who you find interesting or attractive.  Sure, I'll pursue someone who I find intriguing, but I like to leave the outcome open.

LuckyJim

[ArleighBurke]

I completely agree that there should be "mutual chasing". But just be careful how to actually see it - I think that the right woman will "prompt" you to chase her - if that makes sense. She will show interest, and want you to go further. So she's "asking to be chased" - but has also shown interest. If I'm making all the first contact with her, then I would also think she wasn't actually interested.

If a girl's laying with you kissing you, and it turns you off, then either you really don't like her, or you are still very emotionally closed from your last relationship. You say that you only want FWB, which really makes me think that your heart is closed - you actually haven't healed from your last relationship.

How long were you with your ex?

[byfaith]

Hi Clever

I will throw my 2 cents in... .I have found in my situations with online dating is that there is a level of pursuit mixed with patience. I went on the dating site thinking that there was going to be a woman that would just pop up and we would hit it off right away and feeling would be mutual. No, not happening. I had to slap myself into reality. Step back and think about what I really want.

On line dating is helping me to develop some thicker skin and also realize I don't have to get all involved with someone right out of the gate. This is new thinking for me. I am actually talking with about 4 woman right now and there is a 5th that in the beginning said that she wanted someone that was in a different phase of their dating life, but she has been contacting me. 

The patience thing for me is hard but I am learning just because a woman doesn't want to talk everyday (in the beginning stage) doesn't mean she is not interested. As one woman said to me that online dating is not for the faint of heart.

I like Lucky Jim's thoughts... .let things unfold naturally.

I am having to set boundaries for myself also... .what I won't do and what I won't let someone else do to me.

I am not dating to establish my self worth... .I just think it is enjoyable and fun to have someone to go do things with and know she finds me attractive, nice... .funny, sweet. Never know something may come of one of these but I do not want to push it

I hope you can find what you need within yourself and then after that be able to find that person you want to spend time with and get to know

Byfaith

[Bo123]

Woman who play "Hard to catch", when you do catch them almost always play "Hard to keep".  Never been a good experience.  A woman of any intelligence should be as happy to find you as you are to find her.  History has had the norm of men chasing woman as so romantic,but today it's different.  People moved from bars to dating sites, and even the expensive ones have went from good to very poor in a lot of cases.  Society also accepts ":)isposable dating" where after a few dates you sleep together, and then figure out if you like each other.  Wow.  That's one reason I heard on the radio the other day that ALL STD's went up double digits, roughly 16% in 2016.  I don't sleep with someone until I'm starting to fall in love with them and that's usually 2-3 months.  The majority of women don't have the self-esteem to deal with that.  They complain men use them for sex and when they find a guy who is eventually looking for marriage and wants to go slow, not do nothing but just go slow and really get to know each other, they almost always ask:Are you married, are you gay, are you seeing someone else, do you not find me attractive, I can change the color of my hair if you want, its no big deal to me.  I'm certainly no GQ guy and pretty much all the woman I would date would have good jobs, college degree, no kids and not have a issue finding a date, yet sex seems their priority nowadays more than it does men.  That's not good if you want a serious LT relationship or marriage. We have all seen on TV the Big dating site that announces all the marriages they made through the site, its also the most expensive.  I have a friend who now use that as a pick-up place and he and his friends say it works and the woman play right along just like its a fancy expensive club and if they don't make the move in 4-5 dates, the woman do.  It's a culture shift I think and ":)isposable dating" fits the psych of many men/women. Are there any good sites?  I have not heard of any for those of us are looking for a marriage down the road and are willing to put the time/effort into it to do it right?  And how long do all those marriages last they brag about, got married in 6 months, ok... .a year or 2 later where are they. Psychology's best with all the testing and pre-marital stuff is 80% success for the 1st 5 years then it falls to the national norms.  The dating approach is just a mess, especially the older you get, even churches are places that were once sacred are now slipping.  Sad.

[once removed]

can you say more about what you mean by chasing? what does this entail?

[gotbushels]

can you say more about what you mean by chasing? what does this entail?

^ Interested in this also. 

[stixx44]

Very interesting topic.  I am a gay woman, and have had a few relationships in my life. 

In my experience in 4 serious r/s, this topic has always come up.  All the women told me they wanted to be pursued.  Since I enjoy “the chase,” that’s fine with me.  They gave back so it worked out. 

Well, it’s fine if you’re with normal people.  This last one took the pursuing thing to a whole new level.  Too many breakups and chasing just for the sake of drama and making up is definitely toxic to having a stable union.

[ArleighBurke]

To me: Chasing is simply showing interest and making "the first move".

If *I* am always the one "contacting first" and arranging dates, then I'm chasing her. If she never does this, then I'll get the impression she's not interested. I like arranging dates, I like "moving things forward", but my test is what happens if I stop? If we have a great date, and afterwards I don't contact her - will she contact me?

I'm dating a woman at the moment who is like this. I am always the one arranging to see her. She has even cancelled a date on me, and MY thought is that after cancelling she should "owe" me to try to reschedule - but she doesn't. I can wait a week after a date and she won't contact me. Maybe if I wait a little longer she'll call me? I doubt it. So I feel like I'm the one "chasing".

In a "mutual chasing" relationships, both people should be planning, contacting, arranging. This goes for friendships as well. It's a big indicator of effort/desire/interest.

[ArleighBurke]

AND: even if a woman likes to be chased, she can still "encourage" you to chase her... .I still call this mutual. She can contact you first and say "I'm sitting here all alone... .",  or say in conversation "I'd really love to do X" - she's basically ASKING you to pick up on it and start the chase. But she's still showing interest - a desire to chat to you at the very least.

I was on a first date last night with a woman. Halfway through the date I kissed her. We talked more, then later I kissed her again. Soon afterwards she told me "you knew once I kissed you twice that you could have a second date with me". To me, she's now showed interest. She hasn't just "allowed me" to kiss her - that's being passive. Talking about the next date is subtle, but it's now ACTIVE INTEREST. She's not actually chasing me, but she's showed interest and wants me to chase her.

It's also a huge turn on for me (and most women I think), for her to playfully turn down my second date request, to MAKE me chase her more. This is the thrill. She knows I want a date, I know she wants a date. She wants me to chase her, she wants to play "hard to get", but she also wants to say yes. So how do we have fun in the "chase"? How do I make her comfortable enough to say "no", while really meaning "yes"?  It's all in how I control and lead her! My second date request will be to invite her for something silly, something outrageuous that she will say no to. Then back and forward suggest other silly things - allowing (kinda forcing) her to say no, in a silly, fun, flirty way. She's loving it because she gets attention, and funness, and feels chased. Eventually, I'll suggest something practical and she can say yes. We've both enjoyed the chase!

(I don't expect her to do the same with me. But I do expect her to show interest in me - initiate contact, suggest a date every now and again)

[Bo123]

Chasing in my mind would be courting, the one who always calls, always asks them for a date, think back 50 years, it was the guys who were expected to do all that.  It's radically changed now. The guy use to do all the work, less the girl could be labeled "easy", today the woman have the same freedom as men to be the aggressor and just go for sex if they chose.

[40days_in_desert]

My two cents:

As far as online dating, I agree completely. I have had very little luck outside of meeting a really close friend and a whole lot of education about myself and what I do and do not want. All for the low price of $29.95 per month.

I'm in my mid 40s and more old fashioned than not. I think the man should take the lead but not control. I don't feel that it is wrong for a woman to want to be pursued. Maybe even natural but in a healthy beginning of a potential relationship, she would make it  clear that she wants YOU to pursue her.

Just my opinion. I hope you're able to find the resources to work through what you're seeking to understand about yourself. Excellent topic!