Do our toxic relatives (my sis) ever lose their obsession with us?

[Our abuse recovery guide]

My BPD / NPD trait sister just never stops lying, gaslighting, projecting, exaggerating stories about our FOO and how she was the "scapegoat". After our molded she focused all her venom on me.  She abused me as a kid she is much older.  Just wondering thoughts on this as her lies continue although as I am told by someone that still communicated with her... .I do not. 

[Pina colada]

My BPD / NPD trait sister just never stops lying, gaslighting, projecting, exaggerating stories about our FOO and how she was the "scapegoat". After our molded she focused all her venom on me.  She abused me as a kid she is much older.  Just wondering thoughts on this as her lies continue although as I am told by someone that still communicated with her... .I do not. 

[HappyChappy]

Hey Pina colada,

My older NPD brother was very violent to me as a child, that stopped when I learnt Judo, but what I didn’t quite pick up straight away was he kept sabotaging my life. I remember a number of people saying his jealously was palpable. Could your sister be jealous of you ? Its a common feather of people with a PD.

The only thing that worked with my NPD bro was to go No Contact, as his sabotage attempts were always over the top, he didn’t hold back. But on the plus side, no one questioned me doing this, in fact friends from school were like "finally!"

If someone with a PD doesn’t get their narcisstic supply from you, they move on eventually and get it somewhere else. That's why medium chill works.  There is no loyalty, they only prefer family as they know how to punch your buttons. Your other option is to weather it, by learning techniques that may reduce it or be less provocative. There are loads of those on this forum.

So how often do you see your sister ? Is she dangerous or just hugely annoying ? Maybe you could talk us through what it is she's doing that has lead to your post.
 

[Pina colada]

HappyChappy I have never posted my entire history because sis does come here and read.  I just don't care if she does.  It is long but I will try and be brief.  My sister is almost 8 years my senior.  We have a brother and he is 2 years older.  As kids, my parents fought had a bad marriage and it took its toll on me and all of us.  On top of that, yes, I feel my sis has always been jealous of me.  She is sick and I was an easy baby, child and (this is not meant to boat) but much cuter than my sister... .ugh I hate writing that but it is something that adds to her jealousy of me.  My sister hated me and abused me (mentally) and tried several times physically.  She made my childhood horrible by taunting and teasing me.  We shared a room.  She kept it messy and gross on purpose, especially if I had friends coming over.  She called me horrible names, teased me relentlessly.  If my brother and I were playing, she would "steal" my brother away from me ( he later told me he was afraid of her) and I was left all alone.  My mom was a wreck from a bad marriage herself and did not have the energy to help me. When I was in my med twenties, after my mom divorced my dad, we became best friends!  I turned away from my family, my sister whom should have looked after me, and I made friends at school.  This was another source of jealousy for her as she had little to no friends.  My memories of childhood are of sis taunting, teasing, hurting me... .every day.  She was horrible.  When you are 5 and your sister is is 13, you are no match for her.  I hated my sister.  My sister got married at 19.  I was 13 and so happy she would be out of our house!  It was then that she came to me and apologized for how mean she was.  She said she wanted to be friends. I was so happy!  We became close.  She encouraged me to tell her all my secrets.  She wanted to know everything about me.  I was not close to our mom or dad back then.  My sister said she would be like "a mother" to me.  I told her EVERYTHING... .every deep dark aspect of my life.  What I didn't know was that she was telling my mom, dad, brother, EVERYONE I did not want to know all my secrets.  She also embellished my actions and left out details.  Here is an example... .I started going to bars when I was 18, the drinking age back then was 19.  I got into bars because SHE GAVE ME HER DRIVER"S LICENSE to get into the bars... .She also bought beer for me and my fiends.  Then she would tell my family that I drank "all the time" which was not true... .I found out she betrayed all my secrets when I was in my early 30"s.  It was after our grandma died.  My sister was close to our grandma but at that time my sister was going through a five year divorce, dating and basically never saw our grandmother.  I wasn't close to our grandmother but I was so upset she was sick, I went to the hospital almost every day until she passed.  It was such a special time.  She so looked forward to my visits and I did too!  We bonded and I will always have that memory.  After she passed, my sister, whom had mental health issues threatened to kill herself, she also stole a lot of things out grandma's apartment that were not for her and her kids.  My mom finally told me how my sister betrayed me for years, how horrible sis had been to mom, only wanting money, threatening to kill her self a lot, calling mom at work with no regard for mom's job etc.  Mind you, my sister is an adult with a child of her own.  After the betrayal I couldn't talk my sister, I was beyond devastated. I wouldn't answer the phone so she called our home phone through the night.  My husband got up at 5:00 A.M. and barely slept.  We changed our phone number so she couldn't call.  When sis found out she came over to my house.  I was terrified.  I saw with a knife, threatening to kill herself.  She also played divide and conquer with my parents... .I didn't want to speak to her.  Sis kept ringing doorbell.  My twins were babies.  Sis left notes in the doors, windows, everywhere.  When she ran out of paper, she took her white gym shoes off and wrote notes on her shoes and through them at my house... .I called her husband, he would not get her.  My mo lived in another state and I couldn't reach her.  My husband works on an exchange floor and was unreachable.  My dad ignored my pleas for help.  I was able to get my girls in their car seats in my car, in my attached garage and when she went to the back of my house I pulled out.  I went to the police as she had been at my house over and hour.  I told them she was mentally ill etc.  When they arrived, my sister was still at my house, in her socks... .they made her leave.  She now tells anyone that will listen I always call the police on her for no reason.  About 10 years later, she threatened to go to my daughters and tell them they need to be concerned because breast cancer runs in our family.  I asked her not not too.  She started emailing my girls whom were 14 or 15.  I called the police. Yep I will call the police to defend my kids and have my crazy sister stay out of my life.  She has sent friend requests to all my friends on Facebook including my boss.  Sent private messages to my my boyfriend... .she has no boundaries.  Believe or not I am leaving out so much.  Most recently, my dad passed in August.  She lives 5 hours way and never visited him when he was so ill these past few years.I saw him every week although I live over an hour away.  I was at the hospital every day until he passed.  My sister only cared about his money.  She did not go to his funeral.  Who does that?  We have been on and off in contact.  I only stayed in touch as my dad was really sad I would not talk to her.  I did it for my dad mom I loved.  My sister is a regular on another chat forum writing lies about our family.  After our mother passed I have been her scapegoat.  No one now in our family has anything to do with her.  I am friendly with everyone!  Mybrother and I are very close too.  He is on to her too but keeps the peace as she is so crazy.  Sis and I were kind of friendly until she cut me off again in December.  I was grocery shopping.  We were on the phone having a regular conversation about work etc.  Then she asked meshy I couldn't walk away from my boyfriend that she thinks is abusive but I could cut her off.  I told sis I was in public and she was comparing apples to oranges.  Anyways she sent me a tirade of texts that she can't have me in her life because I wouldn't tell her I think she is a good person... .yadda yada yada... .something like this.  So We are NC.  It is fine as I don't need toxicity in my life and my kids, job, personal life, all is good...

[HappyChappy]

Hi Pina Colada,

Thank you for sharing that does give us a good idea. All the bad behaviour you describe sounds very BPD and very harrowing. I trust you understand none of this is personal, its simply an aspect of the mental health illness of BPD. Not that that stops it being incredibly damaging and frustrating, but it can help you to heal.

I get the issue with you sister being so much older, my NPD bro was. He would get betray loyalty all the time, encouraging me to do or say things and then telling my BPD mother. Someone with BPD need to know all your inner secrets in order to manipulate you. 

Your sister not going to visit you ill Dad or funeral, basically someone with BPD sees others in a transactional basis. So if someone becomes ill, they don’t perceive they will get anything for visits so often don’t. But that can work for you, if your sister doesn’t think she’ll get narcisstic supply from you, she will lose interest. So your NC will improve with time. Took my BPD 3 years before she stopped trying to charm me back.

You mention a concern about your sister reading these pages, if you are NC why would that matter ? Please note that those with BPD are not allowed to post here. And as they assume there's nothing wrong with them, it would occur to them to come here unless they knew for sure you did. Even then there are thousand posts to read through, so as long as you don't use real names or addresses. I've never ever seen anyone confronted here. A BPD isn't interested in your healing, but I understand your sister seems very good at provoking fear. How are you dealing with the F.O.G. (Fear Obligation and Guilt) dynamic that BPD instil in us ?

I am sorry to hear your parents have both passed on,  but who else that matters to you can be sucked in by your sister's lies ? A BPD needs quiet a bit of exposure to someone to completely fool them. If you’re NC, then does that mean you are in a safer place where you can focus on yourself, focus on healing from all this ? You took quiet a battering.  I know recounting stories on here helped me, to get validation and to deal with the feeling that they somehow got away with it. I found CBT with a Therapist also helped. What do you think you need to put the past to sleep, to get your sister out of your head ?
 

[Panda39]

Hi Pina Colada,

I'm so glad you shared more of your story and so sad too... .so much hurt an betrayal  . You hung in there a long time but sounds like you've come to a place of radical acceptance about your sister.  You know who she is and know that with out a lot of hard work she is not going to change so you have now set a boundary that will protect both you and your family which is what boundaries are all about.

Based on what I have seen with my SO and his daughters I think over time with less contact things can improve.  It sounds like many in your life are on to her so don't believe much of what she says anymore. Anyone believing the distortion campaign isn't anyone you want in your life anyway.

My SO's older daughter has like you gone no contact with her mother.  It isn't easy it isn't the way she wants it but like you has had to in order to protect herself. My SO's younger daughter is low contact with her mother, some texting and phone calls... .she doesn't provide too much personal information so doesn't feed the drama beast.

All of them my SO and his daughters have created boundaries and mom is only let in as much is as comfortable for each person.  Since boundaries are being enforced, she no longer has the hold on anyone the way she once did. She has over time found others to focus on who she has gotten involved with that feed the drama monster and has lost them all with her dysfunctional behaviors.  It is a sad repeating cycle. 

Take Care,
Panda39

[ijustwantpeace]

All you can really do is work on yourself.

You can't change them.


I hate that my BPD/NPD ("fill in the illness) wants to control my life.

She has a crappy personality and does not respect people's NO on anything.

She keeps going until she gets what she wants and it always ends with me yelling and screaming at her.

I am so tired of her, I want nothing to do with her.

We have talked about boundaries over and over.

She is 70 years old and does not understand appropriate vs inappropriate behavior.

I have to accept she is always going to try to screw up my life as long as she lives.

That is just the way she is wired.


Current strategy is to work as many hours as possible, ignore, and not listen when forced to be in her presense.

You really got to want to live and do what is good for you.

YOU MATTER!  YOU MATTER JUST AS MUCH AS YOUR BPD RELATIVE.

If no contact is not an option because they are too "freaking huts", you will have to toughen up your mental game so it does not affect you.

Make yourself bullet proof.

Understand they are crazy and will always be crazy.

Maybe pretending they have another illness like autism or mental retardation will help give you some sympathy for them to get through the current encounter.

An whatever you do, don't wish they will get better.  They won't. 

If you say only if my BPD would get treatment my life would be great!

Stop! Don't do that.  You will just hurt yourself.  They like how they are and will not change no matter what.

Now, learn how to ignore their BS and just get on with life.

[Pina colada]

So many great replies.  Happy Chappy as I mentioned, there is so much I have left out or my post would be a book.  I never knew about BPD and my sister being hospitalized for mental illness was kept from me.  She insisted I not be told.  When she friended me I was so happy I had a "friend and ally".  I shared everything freely and had no idea of her betrayal.  The truth is, I have never gotten over the betrayal.  It actually seems worse to me the childhood abuse as it was so calculating.  As kids, she made no effort to even pretend to be my friend, just constant abuse... .As a teenager and young adult, the abuse was so calculated and evil I am still traumatized.  I never knew she was using my secrets to manipulate me.  As for FOG, my sister often cried to our elderly dad that brother and myself didn't talk to her.  She felt left out.  She hounded my dad whom would then beg me to talk to her.  I relented mostly for dad but it always went poorly.  In recent years we actually talked through "rules of engagement".  I followed them but she always would twist my actions or non actions and send me text after text and they always ended with mobbing blocked and saying she won't read or listen to anything I say.  She doesn't fight fair, never has.  Panda, you sound like you and your family have BPD mom under control.  I was NC with sis for many years after the betrayal and police incident and it was a very peaceful time.  I am okay with NC.  My sister could be funny and sweet when she wanted but it never lasted and I just can't do that any more.  NC is a must... .ijustwantpeace I love your philosophy.  I am working on "ignoring the bs" and of course being here helps.

[Woolspinner2000]

Good for you, Pina Colada, for all the steps you are taking. 

I find it takes a lot of courage to stick with the journey, to keep those boundaries established, and sometimes just to hold on to healthy life. Please don't worry that you haven't figured it all out yet. Would be nice, but this is definitely a process, a gradual learning that it is okay to take time with.

Have you ever investigated the list to the right hand side of our board? That is a great example of the healing taking time. If you haven't read it yet, you may be surprised at how far you already are! Where do you see yourself right now?

 
Wools

[CocoBelle]

Woow - I'm still new here so a lot of these posts blow my mind, mostly because the stories are so similar to my own!

I have a mother and a sister who have BPD. My sister has it a lot worse - her mood will shift by the minute/hour/day, and she will go from super super super nice to calculated evil, but she will also just be plain evil, just scream at you and yell at you, she has also threatened me in the past, screamed her head off at me standing only an inch away from my face and saying things like, "Oh so you think you're grandma's little angel, cos grandma is so f***ing proud of you, well I'll tell you something, you little b****, I know some of the nasty s*** you've done and I'll TELL HER EVERYTHING!"

The good thing about my sister being so nice and SO evil, was that I clued on pretty early that something was wrong there. That meant I always kept my distance from her, and when she tried to suck me into telling her all my secrets, I would often say to her, "You don't actually give a crap, why should I tell you anything?"

However, with my mother, I was not so lucky. She was the one that would charm everything out of me, every. last. bit. Even today I find it hard to resist her - but I've only just started my true healing journey and learning about BPD, so that's helping me set up boundaries - but when my mum is in the mood for listening, she will CHARM the socks off of me and before I know it I'll be in her arms crying my heart out and telling her EVERY. SINGLE. dirty little secret that I've ever had! And she won't use it for a while, but then a few weeks or even months later, it will suddenly come out in a fight, and she'll use it against me, or tell other people (either within or outside of the family) ... .so I can really, really relate to the pain of such betrayal, Pina Colada! Thanks so much for sharing!

[Panda39]

Panda, you sound like you and your family have BPD mom under control.

With a united front we do have the situation under control and things are peaceful, but there is a sadness behind it, a sadness that those girls don't have a functioning mom.

Betrayal... .the death of a thousand cuts.  My SO's uBPDxw is the queen of failed promises, I have been with my SO for eight years and have seen hundreds of them.  And (Capital Letter) BETRAYAL is also what drove my SO's daughters to go NC & LC.  2015 was a fateful year.

Fall 2014 D21 was heading off to college on the east coast.  A private very expensive liberal arts college that mom said her "family trust" would pay for.   This from the woman with no job and 3 evictions over the previous few years    Of course my SO didn't believe it but D21 did, she wanted to believe it, she wanted to go away to college, she saw what she wanted to see. 

So off she went and had a wonderful first semester, new friends, great classes, and honor roll grades.

She came home for Christmas break and received an email informing her that unless she paid the remaining $15,000 dollars owed to the school for the first semester she could not return.  Because of her mother she is in debt (because she was 18 and the student she is financially responsible) to the tune of $15,000... .it is in collections and hanging over her head.

It was a horrible betrayal and a $15,000 lesson, that she sadly had to learn the hard way.  2015 was the year she went NC and moved in with dad full-time. 

The sad beginning of this story is heading to a very successful happy conclusion.  Dad didn't let her sit and wallow, instead told her she had to get into school for the following semester.  She had previously been accepted at our local State University and was able to get started there (and it was affordable!).  She will be graduating next year, is an honor student, she is student teaching and is on her way to being a wonderful teacher.  I think the title of this story should be "Betrayal and Grit".

The second story of D17 might be titled "Betrayal and the One Way Ticket to No Where".  In 2014 mom sent D17 to a fabulous camp in her home state where she went as a girl. We didn't know how the camp stay was paid for but D17 had a wonderful time. 

In our fateful year of 2015, mom was again sending D17 to camp for the summer.  We again didn't know how it was being paid for but we assumed like the previous year she was able to do it. 

D17 went to her mom's and mom put her on the plane and off she went to Camp... .or so we thought.  Four days after she left we got a call from D17 (then 14) advising her dad that she was not in fact at camp but at the home of the elderly parents of a friend of her mother.  She was told by her mother not to tell her dad where she was (nice  ).  The Lady she was staying with had been told D17 would be there briefly and would she drop her off at camp.  Well you guessed it camp wasn't paid for.  So there was no camp.  No way home (she was sent on a one-way ticket).  Fantastic!  Drop your 14 year old kid off with someone she doesn't know thousands of miles away from home, don't tell dad, don't give her a way home and expect an elderly lady to take care of her until you do!  The Camp also found out she was there... .they were not going to take her in why?  Not only had 2015 not been paid for but neither had 2014!  You just can't make this stuff up!

With the help of her Dad, Uncle and Grandfather we got her home.  This is when she moved in with dad full time and went LC with her mom.

Both girls had enough false promises both big and small that they were done.  It takes time to get there, it takes time to radically accept that your mom is incapable of being there in the way most moms are, it takes time to learn about boundaries and setting them when you've been taught not to have any, it takes time to love yourself enough to put yourself first when your whole life all of your love has been given to your mother, to prop her up, and put her first.

As a mother I feel sympathy for their mother... .how incredibly painful it must be to loose your children.  But also as a mother I feel sympathy for those to girls that have had to grow up with such a toxic person in their lives and not have the mother that they needed.

However there are consequences to our actions and sadly their mother is feeling the effects of that and even more sadly is unable to see what the problem is so she can't fix it.

Panda39

[Pina colada]

Panda, I am so sad for for the children... promises broken.  Having grown up with FOO with PD's I can attest we are an easy target.  It's sleazy to believe what they say especially when we "want" to believe and being young the reality of  PD parent is hard to understand.  They are lucky to have you and their father.
Woolspinner I have been in therapy and yes I have looked at the survivors guide... .I read and come here.  Knowledge is power to a degree.  My main problem in sis posts on a conduct disordered forum that she told me about.  About ten years ago she used to send me threads from there, she would copy and paste them and "make fun of the folks problems" and wanted me to see the stories.  I was fascinated with the forum as I am in special ed... .(my job) and started seeing all the stuff she would write about mom, dad, bro, me, uncle etc.  I would ask bro if this stuff was true etc.  We both knew she spinning tales of fiction using some facts.  My sister is actually an epublished author that writes porn/erotica so she is quite well versed asa writer and can story tell very well.  So in this last year I have stayed away from the site because as soon as mom died in 2004 she went after me and admitted it.  Mom cut her out of her will for many reasons.  Bro and I tried to talk mom into not doing that but to no avail.  She blames me when I had nothing to do with moms choices and was never even power of attorney.  She doesn't understand how wills and trusts work I suppose... anyways with sis it has always been about money.  When she came to visit dad as he lay dying in hospice, unconscious she was incoherent with all the meds she takes, slurring words, talking slow etc.  She made up an excuse, skipped out on the funeral which I mentioned before.  She sent me text after text apologizing, berating herself, how horrible she is to skip out on dad etc.  I was very supportive.  She was still depressed and drugged out.  However, once she found out about the inheritance she was totally manic, happy, sounded normal.  I suspect she took extra meds to deal with dads situation.  Yep, always about money.  We all knew this even dad.  I got to spend his last few years with him as his health declined.  We became very close and I loved him dearly and had an actual relationship in person so I feel good about that.  Dad knew I was there as well as my brother.  I am blessed with that and my brother some special folks in my FOO

[CocoBelle]

Again, I'm baffled by the similarities in your stories!

I grew up truly believing that both my mum and sister so hard off, and that life had treated them so unfairly - especially regarding money. I thought that was just how it was. My sister used to make me feel awful for receiving pocket money from my grandparents. Here's the paradox though: my sister always received the exact same amount of money that I did! But of course she burned through it in no time, and then she would make me feel awful for still having my pocket money (because I loved to save it) so I would usually give her all my pocket money, Christmas money, and birthday money. She always promised to pay it back and never did.

When I was 19 I took my driver's license and my mum promised me she would pay for it. She actually paid for the whole thing, but a few months through the training (I was at university and had no money of my own, of course) she suddenly told me that she was so hard up (again - the story of her life) and that I needed to pay her back all the money she'd "lent" me for my driver's license, because she never promised to pay for anything, she just said she would lend me the money. Of course I believed her and had to borrow the money elsewhere to pay her back, and then work hard on paying back my own debts.

This is nothing compared to the money thousands a university costs, I know! But the type of betrayal is similar and it's just so good to know that it wasn't my fault, nor was I ever "ungrateful" as I was always described to be.

[Pina colada]

I am only bringing this back as I just read my original response to HappyChappy.  It has typos and one part where I am explaining how she came to my house and would not leave, after I found out she betrayed all my secrets, she did not bring a knife (that I know of)... .She brought a knife to my grandmas house, after grandma passed and my mom, uncle and I were cleaning the apartment.  Sis threatened to kill herself (which she did not).  Of course as hard as it is to remember all details, I do try and tell stories correctly which is one thing my sister does not do.  Anyways, in case she does find herself here at least I do try and tell things how they are, not write fiction... .On a side note.