Hello from Someone that Definitely needs some Input...Opinions.

[Fingerlakes]

Hello everyone... .

Here is my situation...   I met a great girl 3 years ago (Let's call her Bridgett). Right from the beginning I noticed things were not the same as the other relationships I've had... .and it's really only been two I would call "serious" (I'm in my 40's) and one of the relationships lasted 15 years. I noticed that she would have these "random" anger outbursts that truly caught me off guard. Confusing!

After maybe close to 6-8mo. I backed out of the relationship, never really clearly defining things with her... .just saying... "I was going to do my own thing". We did still see each other on occasion and there was intimacy. I saw another girl also. Of course since we never clearly defined the period when we somewhat split, this presented a problem when the other woman came into the picture. Which was actually AFTER I broke it off with the other woman to give it another try with Bridgette due to me really missing her- since we had a lot in common - she's smart, Ivy League educated and fun!

From the beginning Bridgett was not very forthcoming with family info, especially her Mother. The story was basically that her Mother was not normal and she is embarrassed to introduce her to anyone. The relationship progressed and so did the erratic behavior, she likes to drink and when she drank it usually DID NOT end up well. We would get in a fight over the most minuscule things... most of the time it would end up with her in some sort of rage and telling me to have a nice life and I would go home and she would go home... (She brought out anger in me that I did not think existed) Then in the morning it's like nothing had happened. This still happens. It's a cycle. She will even get pissed at me... .get up and leave... then return in a few minutes and bitch why I didn't come and try to get her back!

 I also have found that she does not have many friends and the ones she has are "fixers"- people with some sort of problem, be it drugs or mental issues. And she is constantly on the phone or texting with them or complaining about them to me. A lot of this behavior has made it hard for me to build any trust with her. It's the most confusing relationship I've been in. Unpredictable... .and since she's constantly on her phone it gets kind of annoying. I want to date a woman, not a phone. As things continued, the topic of that other woman finally arose and I wasn't too forthcoming with info regarding her. She managed to contact this woman, lied to me about where she was going one night and met up with her over drinks. My fault I guess for not using clear and concise wording(Which I find has to be done with her). I found the whole thing with the contacting and meeting with her kind of bizarre and almost obsessive, but that's just me. She also tried to contact another ex of mine via facebook(Who in turn told me to tell her that she doesn't play that sh*t and to grow up). I confronted her on these knowing that she was fishing for info, but she always had some other story concocted. She always now seems to use this one woman as a tool. A gaslighting tool. And she's very good at subtle gaslighting! Ok... Moving forward... .I lived with her for a while, did a ton of work on her home... money time and effort - I'm very generous. Then another "breakup" happened and she hated me. I moved out, but we kept dating - a lot of my things still there and I also pay for her cable. I will come get things once in a while and she always make me feel guilty about it or think it's the end of the world since i'm taking things.

Now I finally got a chance to meet her Mother. And she was definitely mentally ill, but at that point I didn't know the details other than she was very demanding of her daughter, she was not nurturing, basically used her as a slave. She did say that her Mother wasn't always bad, there were some good times. The history of her Mother though was a divorce from Bridgett's father because her mom was constantly paranoid about everything, accused him of cheating all the time, her mom was also an alcoholic. So Bridgett grew up with a single mom, who had a bunch of broken relationships. Her Mother also failed at most things in life due to her narcissism and the inability to hold a job or function in college since she thought she knew more than everyone else. Now keep in mind at this point I have never heard of Borderline yet. And the story Bridgett told me about home life... .Very sad. And I truly don't think she knows how to love or have a relationship. Saddens me soo much.

So now Bridgett and I decide to go to therapy. First two therapists didn't work... .I felt ganged up on with the first one and whenever I would bring up her Mother I was told that I shouldn't do that since she's not her Mother. Second therapist Bridgett didn't like since her called her out on a few things and angered her. So we finally find another therapist that was better at listening and asking the right questions. And at this point I had a feeling about her Mother and the connection to Bridgett's behavior since I've seen similarities. In our first meeting I bring up the Mother again since I thought it was important, and with 5 minutes Borderline came up(Regarding her Mother, not Bridgett). I'm a researcher by trade, so I do my thing and everything fit together like a puzzle. So now I'm 2+ years into the relationship and still trying to make a go of things... And for her, she's frustrated because I don't trust her and I have been getting lots of what I call "red flags" about. She seems to be deceptive in a lot of ways, but since I sort of know her condition, I question that she may not be deceiving me, but maybe me misinterpreting her behavior... She's always been kind of guarded and private about a lot of things. Sometimes lately I get the impression there is another man in the picture... .and she gets uber defensive when I voice my concerns when I bring it up. She asks why I don't trust her and that she's never given me a reason not to... .although I have caught her in a few lies in the past, but I have found not to call her on any lies etc, because she's never wrong even when she is. (Her Mother was a pathological liar). So within this last year I have gotten sort of mentally drained and have backed off a bit. She's noticed and accuses me of having another woman. I told her that is not the case. I always tell her where I am and that she's welcomed to visit or call anytime. What bothers me is her double standard. She is not like that, and she has ghosted on a few evenings of the last 3 years... No contact, no telling me where she's going... .and if I question her like she does to me, the sh*t hits the fan and I get "I don't have to tell you anything". Major double standards. These are things that I've seen her Mother do. So now I've seen so much of the borderline behavior in Bridgett, but it's a subject that is OFF limits to her. You can't bring it up. So lately, since I have been mentally checked out she's been drilling me with questions about my problems and why i'm like this... .EVERYTHING is brought up as a possible cause BUT her behavior. The thing that bothers me the most is within the last 6 months is the feeling that she being deceptive about another man, but swears she loves me and there is no other man and that she is trustworthy and morally sound etc. - Now i'm at my breaking point... .I love her - the good part. And there is a GREAT person in there, but then there is the bad part. I'm not sure what I should do now!   Advice please.

Final note, her Mother recently died and things are actually better in many ways... .but from a overall perspective it's not.

Below I listed the main things I'm dealing with.

- Anger outbursts at the smallest things.
- Appearance of deceptive behavior.
- Constantly texting 24/7 although she knows it bothers me and has been better.
- Needs to know so many details about my whereabouts etc - yet gets mad when I ask them of her.
- Appears to not practice what she preaches.
- Had a Mother with BPD w/narcissistic tendencies. Zero nurturing as a child.
- No father in picture although reconnected later in life. (Her Mother kept the Father away for no apparent reason)
- Bridgett has the narcissism also.
- Constantly tried to end relationship when arguing.
- Always seems to try and shift blame or change subjects when confronted in arguments.
- When asked about texting I sometimes get...   "Well it's private"
- Lots of subtle gas lighting I noticed to try and keep in control.
- Appears to consider normal thing we take for granted as trying to control her.
- When caught in a lie etc... .major rage... .has even turned physical.
- She seems to be obsessed with sex.
- Has trouble saying I love you.
- When she drinks she gets 10 times worse.
- No diagnosis for Bridgett as of yet.
- Has more than one person in her family that's mentally ill.

[PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES]

PLEASE - NO RUN MESSAGES This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members may appear frustrated but they are here for constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[juju2]

Hi,

You are in the right place.

For me, I needed to learn the tools here, and stop making things worse.

Read here, post more, there is healing here.

Sincerely,  j

[pearlsw]

Hi Fingerlakes,

Did or do the two of you live together?

It sounds like you’ve done a lot to get a handle on what you are dealing with. The next step I think is to really understand the behaviors you are seeing. There is a lot on the workshops page to read and make sense of, piece by piece.

Once you feel you understand it, then the next question is how you can try to make things better or at least not make them worse? Her willingness to go to therapy with you at times sounds like a positive effort. Narcissism adds an even more complex component, and requires extra study and care.

What is her sex obsession?

When I look at your list, I think I’d work on improving the anger issues first because reducing that could pay off in other areas in my opinion. How do you respond when anger comes up? What does this look like?

with compassion, pearl.

[SunandMoon]

Hi Fingerlakes and welcome!

From your post, it does sound like you're with someone who has BPD. Everyone here understands how difficult these relationships are, so you are in the right place!

As Pearlsw suggested, learning more about BPD and the ways we can reduce conflict is vital. Have a look to the right of the page and you will see a list of articles and workshops to get started on (there's more at the top of the page under "tools".

Learning about the disorder and then learning appropriate responses can really make a big difference - especially in reducing those terrible rages and getting better communication.

Are you both still going to therapy?

[Fingerlakes]

Hi Fingerlakes,

Did or do the two of you live together?

It sounds like you’ve done a lot to get a handle on what you are dealing with. The next step I think is to really understand the behaviors you are seeing. There is a lot on the workshops page to read and make sense of, piece by piece.

Once you feel you understand it, then the next question is how you can try to make things better or at least not make them worse? Her willingness to go to therapy with you at times sounds like a positive effort. Narcissism adds an even more complex component, and requires extra study and care.

What is her sex obsession?

When I look at your list, I think I’d work on improving the anger issues first because reducing that could pay off in other areas in my opinion. How do you respond when anger comes up? What does this look like?

with compassion, pearl.

We did live together for about a year, but the arguing took a toll and I moved out back to my house... which I'm glad I had. Ironically tonight we decided to go out for dinner and I wanted to talk a bit about things... I tried bringing up her mom and how she acted and how there a similarities in our relationship etc - bad idea. It starts with her shutting down, getting angry and ends with her saying she feels uncomfortable and unsafe and she wants me to take her home. I have never in my life tried to argue with someone that can take a situation and try to twist it and manipulate it in a way to shift blame or turn it to their advantage. It's the most frustrating thing I have ever encountered... .and makes me want to just shut off. It's like a tool that she uses to shut down something that is a threat to her. So I get her home, go inside and try to talk. No progress, just her style of arguing. I got frustrated and told her I had to leave. I left. Eventually telling her how I felt about how she was, we both vented and talked calmly and settled things, although she still tried to push blame on me. We ended up going back out to eat and the evening ended ok. I'm just so frustrated how she just takes anything I say and twists it or manipulates it in a way to use against me. She does though apologize for things, but I've noticed how it's usually on her terms and she will pick and chose how she does it. She has a major issue accepting responsibility for anything when it comes to wrongdoing etc.   UGH! - And as far as the sexual thing... .it seems to be hypersexuality.  All the pieces form a view that makes be unable to trust her. The lying, deceptive behavior, the unstable moods/anger, even the hypersexuality plays into it.  And the whole 3 years not one admission that there may be a connection between her mentally ill mother and her own behavior. Her anger is much better than it was... all since her Mother died(That was a HUGE weight off her shoulders) i've learned lots of her triggers and just stay away from them - also keeping myself calm works to diffuse things. . The anger itself is usually her getting mad and screaming something like "Have a nice life, this is over". Or some subtle gaslighting comment that she knows would bother me. That she's real good at. And does it constantly. I also don't want to rule out the fact that the fact that we are both alpha doesn't help, but I can tell that there is a fragile little girl inside her. Although she does a good job to try and hide that. Today one of her comments... "Sorry the past three years was a waste of your time"...    Ok my rant is over... .thank you for listening!  It feels good to talk about this... .I just wish she could talk about this~!   

Oh, one last thing. She makes me feel so bad for thinking there is another guy... .Is it normal for me after 3 years of this to just not trust her and to think these things?  The amount of blame pushed on me on how this is all my fault really annoys me!

[pearlsw]

Hi Fingerlakes, and hi juju2 and SunAnd Moon!  

The shortest path to any kind of peace of mind is to really, truly, and deeply understand that all of the logic you have isn't going to make sense of this. You really have to shift your own paradigm and see that you are dealing with another being that experiences the world in another way than you do, or may even be able to imagine.

The good news is that there are some basic tools on the site, when if practiced and applied, could bring both of you some relief. The expectations we bring into our situations have a lot to do with how we interact with partners. I know, none of it seems fair, none of it is by the rules you thought existed in life, but if you are to keep involved it might be worth completely adjusting your own thinking about the situation instead of trying to get her to adjust to you. It's not about fair and unfair, it's just about communicating in the ways that have the most potential. Communication can be depersonalized and go a little easier, at least in terms of you feeling better, and maybe her as well.

I hear your frustration, but in fairness to her, she does not need to or have to make a connection between her mental health and her mother. That is your opinion, and you may be spot on, but likely not a fruitful path trying to convince her of that. Fighting to be "right" is never a good idea in any relationship. She too is entitled to her opinions about herself, in fact she has priority over the rest of us. Whether we may agree or not, we cannot force that onto her. To what end? I would gently suggest learning to let that go... .

About "the other guy", is she trying to make you jealous, or is there one as far as you know?

Can you please tell us more about the gaslighting?

It sounds like you do have some good personal skills with remaining calm. That's great. Use that to your advantage as you practice and learn, I imagine that will make a big difference in you having a chance to improve the relationship!

wishing you peace, pearl.

[Fingerlakes]

Hi Fingerlakes, and hi juju2 and SunAnd Moon!  

The shortest path to any kind of peace of mind is to really, truly, and deeply understand that all of the logic you have isn't going to make sense of this. You really have to shift your own paradigm and see that you are dealing with another being that experiences the world in another way than you do, or may even be able to imagine.

The good news is that there are some basic tools on the site, when if practiced and applied, could bring both of you some relief. The expectations we bring into our situations have a lot to do with how we interact with partners. I know, none of it seems fair, none of it is by the rules you thought existed in life, but if you are to keep involved it might be worth completely adjusting your own thinking about the situation instead of trying to get her to adjust to you. It's not about fair and unfair, it's just about communicating in the ways that have the most potential. Communication can be depersonalized and go a little easier, at least in terms of you feeling better, and maybe her as well.

I hear your frustration, but in fairness to her, she does not need to or have to make a connection between her mental health and her mother. That is your opinion, and you may be spot on, but likely not a fruitful path trying to convince her of that. Fighting to be "right" is never a good idea in any relationship. She too is entitled to her opinions about herself, in fact she has priority over the rest of us. Whether we may agree or not, we cannot force that onto her. To what end? I would gently suggest learning to let that go... .

About "the other guy", is she trying to make you jealous, or is there one as far as you know?

Can you please tell us more about the gaslighting?

It sounds like you do have some good personal skills with remaining calm. That's great. Use that to your advantage as you practice and learn, I imagine that will make a big difference in you having a chance to improve the relationship!

wishing you peace, pearl.

A lot of the gaslighting involves her denying things we've talked about... or using things she knows bothers me in subtle ways to beat me down emotionally. She also constantly will berate just about everything I do as being wrong. How I drive, how I act, how I talk. I know what's going on, but it gets tiresome from a mental standpoint. I can see the narcissism, which honestly is more mentally tough to deal with than her anger.

Since I've done my homework on these things I can for the most part see when she's doing these things. What I also notice is that when she appears to think she has gotten control using these techniques, her mood changes to a more less friendly one. More like a angry Mother figure.  It's interesting.

[Fingerlakes]

Another thing that maybe someone can help me understand. We we spoke the other night and I brought up the borderline subject... .(And this has happened in the past, when I had a bullet list of observations I gave the dr. regarding our relationship) Bridgett would lash out and scream this is character assassination, and then threaten to call her lawyer. Oh, threats such as lawyer and calling the police etc. is a HUGE thing with her when she feels she losing a battle. And this was brought up yesterday when she got upset about the borderline talk... I kept saying to her that we should really talk about this stuff with our therapist, but she insists she can talk about it. It ended up with her saying that SHE wants a WITNESS present when talking about borderline stuff. I've actually experienced her Mother in the past use both those words in certain situations. Has anyone experienced the threats? Is the character assassination and witness stuff part of the narcissism?

Thanks for listening.