Normalizing the Forbidden

[Insom]

Hi, everyone.  I'm here to process a relationship I had with a diagnosed person with BPD when I was a teen.

The relationship was a forbidden one.  (Parent didn't approve.)  So when we saw each other it was either in secret, or against the rules.   And when I left him I more or less stopped talking about him because that also felt forbidden.

Anyway, I'm in therapy working to process old trauma and one thing that's felt refreshing to me is to break my self-imposed taboo re: talking about my ex.   While I told my therapist his name in our first session, I've had a very hard time using it.  Until today, when I needed to refer to him I'd say, "that past relationship I told you about," or "that person from my past," (like he was Voldemort or something).  Today I used is name in conversation with her.  Weird but empowering.

I think talking about him is helping me process things.  I can't explain why this is working.

Has anyone else had this experience of talking helping you normalize/integrate haunting memories?
 

[Cromwell]

Hi Insom

My feelings are that by having to keep the relationship secret from your parents, it had to be kept secret from quite a wide range of people as well - to ensure that they wouldnt find out via a 3rd party?

So on top of whatever youve went through, this was also an added dimension of stress and having to keep a secret on top of everything.

Maybe your reluctance to use his name was just part of self conditioning you needed to do, it became habitual. Even though its been a long time since, your having to recall the past with your therapist and in doing so recalling having to protect his identity. Eventually came to realisation that you dont have to do that anymore?

It creates a bit of difference from (their name) seeming like they still have a part to play in your life, as opposed to referring to them with a more neutral descriptor.

Maybe a way of creating extra emotional distance but now in therapy your feeling inclined to revisit the past and in doing so recalling the times you were much closer?

[Mutt]

Hi Insom,

Maybe a way of creating extra emotional distance but now in therapy your feeling inclined to revisit the past and in doing so recalling the times you were much closer?

I agree with Cromwell maybe talking about him makes you feel lighter, it sounds like the experience was repressed? Was the connection more with your parents than? What I mean is did you parents cause you a lot of distress so much so you’d rather forget about the whole experience? Can you describe your feelings did he make you feel shame?

I’m glad to hear that you made a breakthrough in therapy.

[Insom]

Thanks for the great observations, guys.  (You've given me food for thought.) 

It creates a bit of difference from (their name) seeming like they still have a part to play in your life, as opposed to referring to them with a more neutral descriptor.

Indeed, Cromwell, this rings true & is something I hadn't thought of before.  It was tough leaving my ex even though the relationship was problematic because it felt addictive.  I had to create distance to do it which for me meant disowning what felt positive about it and focusing on the bad.  It wasn't all bad, though (there was some good in there, too).  I get that intellectually.  Saying his name out loud helps me feel it and integrate. 

It sounds like the experience was repressed? Was the connection more with your parents than? What I mean is did you parents cause you a lot of distress so much so you’d rather forget about the whole experience? Can you describe your feelings did he make you feel shame?

Yes, Mutt!  Definitely repressed.  And complicated.  I met my ex at an age when it was developmentally appropriate to seek independence from my parents though this is something I struggled with because of family issues. One of the things my ex would do was take me out and not bring me home/not let me go/prevent me from calling and so on.  This was, of course, a major boundary violation.  But is was also very . . . interesting.  And the consequences, as the pattern unfolded over time, were also interesting.  He helped me find my independence (albeit in an intense, BPD way) and, on some level, find my voice.  Alas, there were some episodes of abuse and a few years of push/pull, on-again/off-again before I was able to find my independence from him as well.

Awhile later, when I met the man who is my husband and we were chatting about relationship history, when I mentioned "crazy ex-boyfriend"  he said he didn't need the details.  Which was 100% fine with me!  So, I packed them away and we moved on.

Anyway, a couple of years ago this stuff popped up in dreams and memories.  My husband and I are close enough that I was able to let him know I was going through something emotionally related to "that past relationship" but again, no details.  So on some level, this is a forbidden topic in my relationship, and I think I'm fine with that.  Because there may come a time when I decide to reach out to ex for closure.  Or not.  (I'm working through the pros and cons of this with T and it is VERY helpful to consider it as a real, and not forbidden, possibility.)  If I DO decide to do this, it'd be better, don't you think, if husband does not know too many details? 

FWIW, husband and I are able to talk in detail about related, family of origin stuff.




 

[Mutt]

If I DO decide to do this, it'd be better, don't you think, if husband does not know too many details?

I think that it depends Insom Your motivation is to get answers about your past that ties into your FOO. You know your H better than we do but from what you have shared here it sounds like he’s a good guy.

He probably won’t worry about an old boyfriend from your adolescence, he won’t feel threatened by it because he’s your husband. If he’s insecure then that’s something else you’re not having an emotional affair you’re trying to settle something inside of you that’s unresolved then I wouldn’t say anything based on his maturity.

Does your H get jealous?

[Insom]

Does your H get jealous?

No, no, I don't think this isn't about that.  It's more about preserving the sense of safety my husband and I have in our home.  My husband has said in the past that my ex "sounds scary." And I know the more I say, the scarier he sounds.

Back to the word "shame" you raised earlier . . . For a long time I felt terrible guilt whenever I thought or dreamt about my ex.  He didn't always treat me well.  I think I wanted to erase him so I could render the relationship meaningless, not give him credit for mattering to me. Alas, the more I tried to NOT think about him the more charged with tension those memories became.  Part of what "normalizing the forbidden" means to me is un-charging them by talking about them.

Today as an  adult who can handle complexity, I accept that even though Ex doesn't deserve my care he kind of has it because as much as I'd like to deny it, he was an important person in my history who shaped my life in an interesting, beneficial way. 

Does any of this make sense?

[gotbushels]

Insom  

Interesting topic. Perhaps quite challenging because when I read your title I think, how do you normalise something about someone else (or oneself) that you don't actually want. It's easy to normalise sadness, happiness, etc., but what about those forbidden things.  

Today I used is name in conversation with her.  Weird but empowering.

Interesting. I appreciate a bit of what this is like. Sometimes it feels as though some words have special power, and when we use those words--even a person's name--it can feel like we're empowering them (or the situation with them, over us) with whatever it is that is feeding that power. Good on you for feeling confident enough to use the name.

Has anyone else had this experience of talking helping you normalize/integrate haunting memories?

After talking about my ex enough to people, on the board, to myself, it does seem to have a curative and calming effect. I guess psychologically it lets us feel that it's okay to discuss what 'forbidden' or otherwise difficult situations we were in, but from a standing point of greater detachment. From the point it seems you're at--helping yourself to process things--then things don't feel so invested or personal. I think plus point is that's a good climate to do any working through you want to do.  

FWIW, husband and I are able to talk in detail about related, family of origin stuff.

I think this is a good thing. Sometimes talking about FOO is more difficult than talking about an ex.

Today as an  adult who can handle complexity, I accept that even though Ex doesn't deserve my care he kind of has it because as much as I'd like to deny it, he was an important person in my history who shaped my life in an interesting, beneficial way.  

Nice job on going beyond your ex. I want to also hold out the highlighted bit. So let's use the ability to go through the complexity and talk more about what the issue is here.

No, no, I don't think this isn't about that.  It's more about preserving the sense of safety my husband and I have in our home.  My husband has said in the past that my ex "sounds scary." And I know the more I say, the scarier he sounds.

Ok, so to borrow your word, I think you can unpack this. You and your husband seem to be able to talk about difficult things relating to your previous relationships. So why does talking about your ex and his 'scary' behaviour have an effect on the safety of your home? Beyond that, if you want to share this with your husband, I'd consider doing it in a neutral space outside the home--like a quiet cafe or a park.

[Insom]

Interesting. I appreciate a bit of what this is like. Sometimes it feels as though some words have special power, and when we use those words--even a person's name--it can feel like we're empowering them (or the situation with them, over us) with whatever it is that is feeding that power. Good on you for feeling confident enough to use the name.

Thanks for this and the questions, gotbushels.  I appreciate feeling heard. 

So why does talking about your ex and his 'scary' behaviour have an effect on the safety of your home?

OK, here goes . . . (deep breath).

One of the topics I've discussed with my T is closure.  What is closure?  Do I need it?  How to get it?  That sort of thing.  While this is probably something I won't end up doing, it feels helpful to talk about as if it's real.  The conversation has two parts.

1.  What do I have to say to him that I haven't already said?  (Totally unclear, by the way.  Maybe nothing.  And until I'm clear I have no idea what I'm doing.) 

2. What are the potential consequences of contact? 

Thinking out loud here . . . I have so much more to lose now than I did when I knew my ex. He didn't scare me when I was in relationship with him even though he did creepy things. It was only after, when I started to build a saner life for myself that I was able to feel and understand the threat.  I adore the relationship I have with my husband and worry if my ex were to find out I spoke his name he could threaten that by . . . showing up, punishing me by harassing my wonderful guy, trying to humiliate me and so on.  In reality, since he mainly views women as potential sexual partners, my sense is that if he knew I wanted to have a conversation with him that wasn't about getting back together, he'd not be interested in talking.  Fine.  (Not scary, but not satisfying either.)  If I initiated a conversation that disappointed him, he might want to punish me.

Ugh.  (In some ways it'd have been nice to just keep sweeping this stuff under the rug . . .  indefinitely.)

Anyway . . . this is a good illustration of what I'm trying to do here.  Defang fear by talking about it. 

 

[gotbushels]

Anyway . . . this is a good illustration of what I'm trying to do here.  Defang fear by talking about it. 

Well done here. I think it's not easy to do this. I think it takes courage, so good on you.    To share a bit, I think when we understand what makes us afraid, it helps to take some of the anxiety out. I hope that happens for you too. 

One of the topics I've discussed with my T is closure. 

Excellent choice of topic, I think. That's a nice pair of summary questions too.

Thinking out loud here . . . I have so much more to lose now than I did when I knew my ex.

Yes! I think after the relationship if we've gone ahead and built a positive life for ourselves, then we're going to have that seeming feeling of fear of losing something.

He didn't scare me when I was in relationship with him even though he did creepy things.

I definitely relate to this. Me too, I think it's a good sign when there's some anxiety about things after they've happened. My read of this is that you can see great reasons for those things to be 'creepy' that you didn't actually recognise when you were in the relationship. So now you understand threats about those things. If you've got that recognition I think that's growing forward--it doesn't all have to be roses when it comes to our ex's.

. . . showing up, punishing me by harassing my wonderful guy, trying to humiliate me and so on. 

I think this is a great place to look at the being scared of your ex's behaviour and the safety of your home. Without worrying too much about probabilities, I think you can take it further, what is your planning if he shows up? What would your current squeeze do if was harassed? What can he actually do to attempt to humiliate you? For the last one something that might help is remembering that people can only make you feel inferior with your consent. 

If you're concerned about safety here, I encourage you to at least write it down somewhere you can refer to it. It helped me to do something similar to this (my ex knew about the board 4 years ago).

If I initiated a conversation that disappointed him, he might want to punish me.

Does his opinion on what he gets from the conversation matter to you?--remember he's actually less likely to attempt to 'punish' you, given you're out of that 'range' of intimacy today.

Ugh.  (In some ways it'd have been nice to just keep sweeping this stuff under the rug . . .  indefinitely.)

Yes I know this. And at the same time... .does it also feel kind of good that the lego or things under the rug aren't that 'bad' after all? Just curious if I can relate to that part too. 

[Zen606]

Hi Insome, yes I have had similar experiences in therapy and it has felt liberating and empowering to discuss something hidden for so long. I believe that the act of externalizing an issue is a way to heal shame.  Once it's out in the open the issue is off your shoulders, you can confront it more clearly. Bradshaw discusses externalizing in his book "Healing the shame that binds you"
Zen606

[Insom]

Thanks for the recommendation, Zen606.  The topic of shame has interested me for awhile.  (It's a feeling I know all too well.)  By the way, I love how you defined closure in this thread, "What is Closure?"

Closure can be different things to different people. Saying a formal goodbye can be one way, discussing what happened can be another way.

It clarified for me instantly what I want.  A discussion.  Whether one is advisable or even doable is another question.

does it also feel kind of good that the lego or things under the rug aren't that 'bad' after all?

It does, gotbushels.  Thank you.    

What can he actually do to attempt to humiliate you? For the last one something that might help is remembering that people can only make you feel inferior with your consent

Right.  I think the way to handle potential humiliation would be to just talk about it with H in hopes of  inoculating myself.  If I decided to go for a closure conversation with ex then husband and I would have to have a conversation that looks something like this:  "There's something important I need to do.  You are not going to like it.  Here is what could happen."  Not eager to go there, though, unless under duress.

[gotbushels]

It does, gotbushels.  Thank you.    

Right on Insom.   

I think the way to handle potential humiliation would be to just talk about it with H in hopes of  inoculating myself. 

Ok. And what can he actually do to humiliate you? Is there really anything he can say or do that would make you feel ashamed or foolish?