I am miserable because of my irrational guilt

[downheart]

It's been probably 2 months since I last wrote. I separated from my uBPD wife in April. In short, the anxiety was too intense, my daughters and I were in an unsafe environment, and the marriage was sucking all my energy. I couldn't be a good parent. My teenage daughter was seriously suffering. When my wife punched me I decided that it was time for an extended break.
I told her to leave that night, but since then have never demanded that she stay away from the house, but encouraged sharing. Nevertheless, she decided to stay away and kept her sons away as well.
Over the months I've read lots of books and this website about BPD and relationships and I've had excellent time in therapy better understanding myself. I've reconnected with friends and family and gained terrific support.
By contrast, my wife has remained stuck. From her perspective, I abandoned her and left her homeless while she is suffering from severe depression. I can't be trusted. And now she fears for her future, money and sons. She is unable to share responsibility or recognize how her negative projections and threats, including violence and suicide, contributed to the break up.
I once said to her, if there's a massive breach in the hull, would you blame the person who called to abandon ship? And her response was that there was still time to try to patch it, so yes.
We continued couples therapy for a few weeks until she left the area. We continued to email to try to talk things through. Things only worsened for her as time passed. I think as it became clearer to her that our relationship would be different if we got back together - that I had learned about and established personal boundaries - then she felt increasingly wounded by abandonment, depressed and fearful of the future. She's sick and working from a significant deficit. It's awful and I want her to help herself. I empathetically encouraged her to try to rid herself of the victim mentality, but she cannot. She just always returned to the day that I told her to leave as the cause of great pain that she can't put aside.

Finally she broke it off saying that she could no longer talk or email with me and that she was going to focus on "building a new life" for herself and her sons.

But damn it I cannot let go of the guilt. I feel huge guilt that she's blaming me. I feel shame for how she will always characterize our breakup to our friends. I'm sad and angry about how she has pulled her sons into this, painting herself as a victim of their villain step-father. I'm grieving the loss of my step-sons and the dissolution of our family - all the messiness of money and stuff and being in a house that's now far too big. But mostly I'm just racked with guilt!

I know that there is unlikely to ever be closure. I know that the guilt I feel is the same codependent anxiety that kept me in this relationship for 8 years. I understand now my responsibility and role in this toxic relationship. I recognize that my father was distant and my parents' marriage was a mess and that I had vowed to be a better man than my father. I recognize that when my first wife died I was left with a tremendous need to care and save my new partner, which I couldn't do for my first wife. I recognize that my wife's BPD has manipulated me to always want to do more to help her, while her demands, expectations and hurt became ever more extreme to the point where I lost my friends, lost connection with my extended family, failed as a parent and maybe almost killed me. (With no risk conditions I ended up in the hospital last Thanksgiving with a 95% coronary blockage.) I now know so much more about BPD relationships - why and how they fail.

But I cannot shake the guilt and shame!

It is totally irrational. But seemingly inescapable.

[spero]

Hi Downheart,

I'm really sorry that you're feeling this way about yourself. This situation, while not new must really be disheartening. discouraging and really draining for you.
I'm curious about your feelings of guilty about the most recent situation? And would you have any plans to perhaps think through the situation?

You've mentioned that you've gone through couples therapy as well, how did that work out? As much as you know and understand that you wife has "remained stuck", it is unfortunate that where she remains, is still her choice, whether intentionally or unintentionally. You've also raised that, she seems to be attributing her situation very much to you being the problem, or being a trigger source.

I know you very much would like to help her, but downheart, how you'd want to help her, might not always be the most beneficial thing for her at present. If you did step in, what do you think might happen eventually? I am also concerned that you've identified your own need that to step in and "rescue", do you think that is primarily the motivation of your intention to want to help her at this moment?

Downheart, i see that you're trying really hard and somehow your health has also been severely affected at this stage, are you still personally visiting a T at this point? You're not a failure and perhaps it seems that way because, some goals were unattainable or extremely difficult to upkeep especially with your uBPD wife. My uBPDexGF told me "i've set you up for failure even before i made you take the test", was a rather harrowing sentence. She just wanted me to fail, to justify to herself that her actions were correct ... .to perhaps play the victim, or that i wasn't "good enough".

So, downheart, go easy on yourself. Don't beat yourself up too hard.

Yours,
Spero

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hello Downheart,

This situation is tough for sure, and I join Spero in encouraging you to go a little easy on yourself.  I understand because I have been dealing with a lot of guilt around splitting up with my uBPDh. 

Of course we feel guilty.  We are being blamed.  Our partners need us to feel responsibility so they can continue in the victim position.  She says she can't trust you, yet she is the one who you cannot trust.  We want to rescue our partners, and as you say, you wanted to save her because you could not save your first wife.  This is really valuable insight on your part. 

I wanted to "save" my husband, as well.  He suffered abuse as a child.  I struggle with not being able to do that for him.  Despite years of trying, he suffers in many of the ways that you describe your wife suffering.  We must accept that we are not omnipotent and that as much as we tried and wanted it, we were unable to save them.

I know it's difficult, but we have to give up responsibility for them and take responsibility for ourselves, and children in our care.  We can only change our own thinking, not the misguided thoughts of our partners.   Not that we don't care about them, but we are not their saviors.  Does this make sense?

When we give up shame and forgive ourselves, and I am having to consciously do this each day, we can begin to love ourselves and grow as people.  We can begin to let others love us, too.  We don't have to be a pillar of strength every second.  We are human.  Are you willing to try to forgive yourself? 

I am glad you are posting, we care and so many of us have been through or are going through very similar things. 

Peace and blessings, 

Mustbeabetterway

[mama-wolf]

By contrast, my wife has remained stuck. From her perspective, I abandoned her and left her homeless while she is suffering from severe depression. I can't be trusted. And now she fears for her future, money and sons.

She is unable to share responsibility or recognize how her negative projections and threats, including violence and suicide, contributed to the break up.

she felt increasingly wounded by abandonment, depressed and fearful of the future. She's sick and working from a significant deficit. It's awful and I want her to help herself.

downheart, your post really resonated with me.  These pieces especially stand out, as I have already been dealing with some of this in the first month of my separation, and can see this I will be facing it more and more over the coming months.  I really appreciate you sharing here, because it helps to know that someone is going through almost exactly the same things.  It also helps me to see the encouraging responses that I will try to apply to my own situation as well... .

I'm also the one who called to "abandon ship" and my stbx felt so wronged by that decision.  I know I had my own part to play in the marriage and its ultimate failure, but she would only focus on making me see what was wrong with me.  She would acknowledge some of her behaviors, but only as a mechanism to get me to dive into my own shortcomings.  Never really as a sincere effort to change anything she was doing to cause so much damage to me and our relationship.

And now she's on her own, and I'm not there to rescue her anymore.  She has to manage her time to actually get work done and earn a living, control her own impulsive spending, and find a way to be present and nurturing and patient with our two kids when they are with her 50% of the time. 

She has made a point to express on social media how much she has learned about herself and how resilient she is feeling right now as she just recently moved into the townhouse she has rented.  But I see the storm clouds on the horizon as the reality of her new life starts to set in for her.  I know she is going to struggle a great deal--especially on those days when the kids are with me and she is totally alone.  She already blames me for so much, and I can sense more blame, anger, and hurt coming my way in the near future.

But damn it I cannot let go of the guilt. I feel huge guilt that she's blaming me.

I feel shame for how she will always characterize our breakup to our friends.

I'm sad and angry about how she has pulled her sons into this, painting herself as a victim of their villain step-father.

I know that there is unlikely to ever be closure. I know that the guilt I feel is the same codependent anxiety that kept me in this relationship for 8 years.
 
I recognize that my wife's BPD has manipulated me to always want to do more to help her, while her demands, expectations and hurt became ever more extreme to the point where I lost my friends, lost connection with my extended family, failed as a parent and maybe almost killed me.

All of this.  I am with you on all of it... .especially the guilt.   It overshadows any potentially positive experience I have, and prevents me from enjoying much of anything in my life right now.  And otherwise, I don't actually feel much of anything else.  I have posted in other threads about my emotional numbness, but as I read the words you have shared, I identify with them so strongly.  I guess that means the emotions are there for me... .I just haven't been able to connect with the shame, sadness, or anger in order to process them and move on.

I know my stbx is painting herself as the victim to anyone who will listen--especially her family.  I have struggled the most over the past few days with losing that part of the family.  The in-laws and nephews who I love, who now only hear her side of the story.  I don't think I will ever get a chance to tell my side, and ultimately it won't matter.  Their loyalties lie with my stbx, I guess, and it's just so damn unfair.  And ultimately, I worry that my kids will hear some of it and it will affect how they see me and see the world in general.

mw

[downheart]

I'm curious about your feelings of guilty about the most recent situation? And would you have any plans to perhaps think through the situation?

Hi. Thanks Spero. I "think through" this constantly as my mind churns and churns. The best I can say is that my deep aversion to do no harm, my long-time sense of myself as a generous, conscientious, selfless person (which always made me happy in the past), my perfectionist tendency and my wife's continued reminders that she holds me accountable for her pain all combine to cause me to constantly say to myself I could have done better. And that leaves me feeling guilty for how my actions damaged my wife, daughters and step-sons.

Rationally I know this is codependency. I know that my uBPDw is sick. The separation should bring relief knowing that I was slowly pulled into a vortex where my wife's fear of abandonment, self-loathing, and resulting emotional needs could never be fixed. Instead, I think about how I was unable to do enough.   

A friend of mine had an interesting theory that I long ago took on a savior mentality, which I did in part to avoid the guilt of having my own needs. But the guilt was just transferred. Instead I feel guilt when I can't meet other's needs!

You've mentioned that you've gone through couples therapy as well, how did that work out? As much as you know and understand that you wife has "remained stuck", it is unfortunate that where she remains, is still her choice, whether intentionally or unintentionally. You've also raised that, she seems to be attributing her situation very much to you being the problem, or being a trigger source.

I know you very much would like to help her, but downheart, how you'd want to help her, might not always be the most beneficial thing for her at present. If you did step in, what do you think might happen eventually? I am also concerned that you've identified your own need that to step in and "rescue", do you think that is primarily the motivation of your intention to want to help her at this moment?

Yeah, my desire to continue to engage has a lot to do with my needs — trying to get rid of my guilt, trying to help my wife, who I still love, feel better so that I don't feel so bad. My wife is speaking with two voices: the child continues to blame me, but the adult is saying we're done, let's stop trying to repair and remake our lives. I just need to listen to the adult part.

I am still seeing a therapist and it's been really helpful. Thanks.

Downheart, i see that you're trying really hard and somehow your health has also been severely affected at this stage, are you still personally visiting a T at this point? You're not a failure and perhaps it seems that way because, some goals were unattainable or extremely difficult to upkeep especially with your uBPD wife. My uBPDexGF told me "i've set you up for failure even before i made you take the test", was a rather harrowing sentence. She just wanted me to fail, to justify to herself that her actions were correct ... .to perhaps play the victim, or that i wasn't "good enough".

So, downheart, go easy on yourself. Don't beat yourself up too hard.

[downheart]

Thanks mustbe. Yes it does make sense. I'm not her savior. And logically I forgive myself. But the pull between head and heart is painful. I really appreciate your response.

Hello Downheart,

This situation is tough for sure, and I join Spero in encouraging you to go a little easy on yourself.  I understand because I have been dealing with a lot of guilt around splitting up with my uBPDh. 

Of course we feel guilty.  We are being blamed.  Our partners need us to feel responsibility so they can continue in the victim position.  She says she can't trust you, yet she is the one who you cannot trust.  We want to rescue our partners, and as you say, you wanted to save her because you could not save your first wife.  This is really valuable insight on your part. 

I wanted to "save" my husband, as well.  He suffered abuse as a child.  I struggle with not being able to do that for him.  Despite years of trying, he suffers in many of the ways that you describe your wife suffering.  We must accept that we are not omnipotent and that as much as we tried and wanted it, we were unable to save them.

I know it's difficult, but we have to give up responsibility for them and take responsibility for ourselves, and children in our care.  We can only change our own thinking, not the misguided thoughts of our partners.   Not that we don't care about them, but we are not their saviors.  Does this make sense?

When we give up shame and forgive ourselves, and I am having to consciously do this each day, we can begin to love ourselves and grow as people.  We can begin to let others love us, too.  We don't have to be a pillar of strength every second.  We are human.  Are you willing to try to forgive yourself? 

I am glad you are posting, we care and so many of us have been through or are going through very similar things. 

Peace and blessings, 

Mustbeabetterway

[downheart]

downheart, your post really resonated with me.  These pieces especially stand out, as I have already been dealing with some of this in the first month of my separation, and can see this I will be facing it more and more over the coming months.  I really appreciate you sharing here, because it helps to know that someone is going through almost exactly the same things.  It also helps me to see the encouraging responses that I will try to apply to my own situation as well... .

M-W, I've been reading some of your posts elsewhere and it is really helpful to know about others who are suffering similar fates. I'm so grateful to connect here.


I hope I can be the support for others some day.

I'm also the one who called to "abandon ship" and my stbx felt so wronged by that decision.  I know I had my own part to play in the marriage and its ultimate failure, but she would only focus on making me see what was wrong with me.  She would acknowledge some of her behaviors, but only as a mechanism to get me to dive into my own shortcomings.  Never really as a sincere effort to change anything she was doing to cause so much damage to me and our relationship.

This is so familiar. My w is a good woman and we worked really hard for years. She was the one who got us in to CT and she was involved in psychotherapy long before we were together. But I've come to recognize that her BPD makes it really difficult for her to honestly address her own internal turmoil because if she were to truly look then there wouldn't be anything there - only projections. And so her cooperation was primarily a mechanism to try to dig into my problems to fix herself.

And now she's on her own, and I'm not there to rescue her anymore.  She has to manage her time to actually get work done and earn a living, control her own impulsive spending, and find a way to be present and nurturing and patient with our two kids when they are with her 50% of the time. 

She has made a point to express on social media how much she has learned about herself and how resilient she is feeling right now as she just recently moved into the townhouse she has rented.  But I see the storm clouds on the horizon as the reality of her new life starts to set in for her.  I know she is going to struggle a great deal--especially on those days when the kids are with me and she is totally alone.  She already blames me for so much, and I can sense more blame, anger, and hurt coming my way in the near future.

I hear you. I know from experience that when she is alone then all her demons are at their most intense. I'm glad she is moving into her own apartment and says she is committed to creating a new life. She has good friends who are very supportive. But I'm already preparing myself for the rage/shame pattern to worsen. She's currently unemployed and I can't afford to continue to support her. We have the ugliness of divorce and custody issues ahead of us, so a clean break seems impossible. And closure will probably never happen. I envy those in BPD relationships without the entanglements of marriage, kids, money and property.

All of this.  I am with you on all of it... .especially the guilt.   It overshadows any potentially positive experience I have, and prevents me from enjoying much of anything in my life right now.  And otherwise, I don't actually feel much of anything else.  I have posted in other threads about my emotional numbness, but as I read the words you have shared, I identify with them so strongly.  I guess that means the emotions are there for me... .I just haven't been able to connect with the shame, sadness, or anger in order to process them and move on.

I know my stbx is painting herself as the victim to anyone who will listen--especially her family.  I have struggled the most over the past few days with losing that part of the family.  The in-laws and nephews who I love, who now only hear her side of the story.  I don't think I will ever get a chance to tell my side, and ultimately it won't matter.  Their loyalties lie with my stbx, I guess, and it's just so damn unfair.  And ultimately, I worry that my kids will hear some of it and it will affect how they see me and see the world in general.

Re kids, how old are yours? My daughters are 13 and 15. My stepsons are 17 and 19. My friend said to me
"You can't protect them, you know.  You can't control what she says and what they understand and believe.  They need to sort that out themselves." He suggested we watch Kramer Vs Kramer together and then ask together "how do we prevent this from happening?"

Anyone have thoughts about this?

[Lostinthedesert]

As I read all of your posts and see so much of my own situation in them, I try to remind myself that if I was truly healthy, the guilt and blame I feel would not likely be present. In other words, our BPD ex's can use our desire to rescue and help and save them  against us.  Those qualities of compassion and caring in us are the exact vulnerable place they attack.  I just found this course this morning from dailyOm.  It is a course about learning how to be in relationship with others without feeling responsible for their emotions or lives.  I think it will be very helpful for me and maybe some of you may find it helpful.  I hope this link works.  www.dailyom.com/cgi-bin/courses/courseoverview.cgi?cid=447&utm_medium=email&utm_source=spotlight&utm_campaign=447-spotlight-2018-07-23 

When I finally had the courage and wisdom to leave a codependent and unhealthy relationship, I was accused of abandoning my uBPD gf, of being just like all her other jealous, possessive, abusive ex's... .it was such a stab to my heart and hit on every nerve in my body.  I know these words are not true, but that she could even think them was still beyond me.  Again, we are not dealing with rational adults who can look at their part in a failed relationship as well. All we can do it look at our part and get ourselves healthy.  I wish all of us could quickly move on to the day when we are not racked with guilt, but slowly with our own hard work, we will.

[downheart]

I'd be interested to hear how that course works for you. Maybe you could post a reply in a week or so to let us know.

It's so painful to have given so much and to have tried so hard and then be told that you were insufficient, unkind, uncaring. BPDs must project their negative self image on you. They are ill. Whatever you do is never enough. Ironically, if you finally terminate the r/s, as I did, then the "truth" is then borne out. "See. He never truly loved me. I could never trust him and now it's clear I was right... .etc."

It's so easy to feel guilt when you were the caregiver and took on that savior job. It's even easier to feel guilt when you have been brainwashed through persistent shame by your BPD.

As I read all of your posts and see so much of my own situation in them, I try to remind myself that if I was truly healthy, the guilt and blame I feel would not likely be present. In other words, our BPD ex's can use our desire to rescue and help and save them  against us.  Those qualities of compassion and caring in us are the exact vulnerable place they attack.  I just found this course this morning from dailyOm.  It is a course about learning how to be in relationship with others without feeling responsible for their emotions or lives.  I think it will be very helpful for me and maybe some of you may find it helpful.  I hope this link works.  www.dailyom.com/cgi-bin/courses/courseoverview.cgi?cid=447&utm_medium=email&utm_source=spotlight&utm_campaign=447-spotlight-2018-07-23 

When I finally had the courage and wisdom to leave a codependent and unhealthy relationship, I was accused of abandoning my uBPD gf, of being just like all her other jealous, possessive, abusive ex's... .it was such a stab to my heart and hit on every nerve in my body.  I know these words are not true, but that she could even think them was still beyond me.  Again, we are not dealing with rational adults who can look at their part in a failed relationship as well. All we can do it look at our part and get ourselves healthy.  I wish all of us could quickly move on to the day when we are not racked with guilt, but slowly with our own hard work, we will.

[WindofChange]

All of your posts resonate so much with me. Left my (now diagnosed) BPD fiancé and the guilt was overwhelming. I wanted to save the broken little boy inside him, who had been so abused. I thought if I loved him enough, prayed enough, tried hard enough, sacrificed enough, that I could do it. But we all know how that story ends. The guilt over leaving him has been horrible. Thankfully, he told me recently that his T has diagnosed him officially with BPD. I guess that's a step toward the right direction. (He contacted me to let me know I was right in what I had thought, that it was BPD--no surprise to me, sadly.) But he is in treatment, and hopefully is willing to put in the work to get better. I am also seeing a T and am working on my own issues, so hopefully at some point I can be healthy and let go of my own guilt and feeling of responsibility in this. It is encouraging to read that so many others are going through the same feelings, and to read how you're dealing with them. Thanks for posting on this topic, downheart.

[Lady Itone]

Ah, yes, the guilt. I was coming here to post about the guilt and shame of having abandoned someone mentally ill, but y'all beat me to it.

ExBPDgf was the 3rd relationship I've walked out on in the past 5 years. First was my exhusband of 16 years. I have never yet got over of my guilt for breaking my marriage vows, though my spouse still wanted to work on the marriage, though I had good reasons.

And now my poor little waif exBPDgf. I feel triggered because I saw she's been trying to call me (I have her blocked my phone shows me blocked calls.) I feel horrible ignoring her.

Our empathy does us no favors when it comes to feeling guilty. I keep thinking as hard as all this is for me, it's got to be much worse for her. She has less of a support system, less self-knowledge, less resilience. But any kindness from me will just make her push harder to get back to me, my therapist and all my friends remind me.

I guess it's great that we all understand how we got into these situations (our FOO issues) But knowing all this doesn't stop the feelings. I guess it just takes a lot of time.

[Cromwell]

Guilt is probably the strongest residual emotion left that I have to come to terms with.

A lot of rewiring has had to start to occur, ive had to start unravelling why I have this strong need to involve myself in rescuing someone, when it led to a lot of pain, misery and was damaging to myself.

Im happy these days yet cannot embrace it to its full extent, or cannot attain it in its purest form, because of some weird guilt that I shouldnt be allowing myself to feel happy, knowing that my ex has been left to flounder through life without my help. It starks me as a form of disloyalty, or self criticism of abandoning a friend in need. What I had to learn a few key points and really drum them through to myself;

she wasnt a friend as far as my expectation goes

I was just a boyfriend, I have no obligation to her life, I also did the best I could and went beyond the expected call of duty by any normal meaning. (to my continued own detriment).

When you convince yourself that you love someone - it is never going to be straightfoward to cast them out of your life easily. Yet should "self love" be shelved and taken out of that equation? Somewhere in the midst of it all, I forgot that I actually have a life too and subserviated it. why?

If im going to feel any guilt these days, it is why I let myself get kept in that situation and not find enough self respect at all of those junctures to say "this is not right, I want better than this".

I tried to help - I gave it my best - more is simply not possible beyond making myself a proverbial martyr. It took to that level to get a reality check and realise I have nothing to feel guilty about and should not be continuing to neglect my own needs.

Maybe im just an extremely selfish person, I know at least im a much happier one than I was before.

[Lostinthedesert]

 This is a quote from the course I mentioned in my above post.  I think it is very timely to this discussion:

"At some time in my life I got the impression I had the power to make you happy or sad, and that even extended to my believing at times that I could be responsible for your life or death. Way too much for me! I now see my belief was in error. I forgive whoever helped me take that on... .(Thanks Mom and Dad). "

This guilt that I am feeling (and maybe so many of you) comes from old beliefs.  In fact, my Mother was very ill and I was supposed to watch out for her as a very young kid.  Then she did die, and I was only 11.  I realize I have held on to that guilt for years and years.  and now my victim ex blames me for her pain, blames me for abandoning her... .it's no wonder this hits me in the most vulnerable place possible.  But we are all adults now, and we are not responsible for their choices, their happiness.  I agree that we could nearly kill ourselves trying to fill their big old hole of need, but maybe we need to fill our own now.  I know I do.

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi Downheart,

Yes there is a strong pull between head and heart.  I get it!  Reading through our posts here, we all have something in common - we have been trying to use logic to figure out why we feel like we do or why our partners acted like they did.  It’s not logical and no matter how I turn it around and around in my head, I cannot make sense of it.

lostinthedesert. That’s a great quote.  Thanks for sharing.  ladyitone i think you are right that time will help, especially if we spend that time becoming healthier individuals.

Take care everyone.  Peace  and blessings,
Mustbe

[Ysabel]

They are masters aren’t they? They lie and tell us half truths about the situation so that when we retaliate and “hurt them” for standing up for ourselves, they can slink away and play the victim card, the only role they are truely happy in. Try confronting them with the reality of their choices and how they have effected you deeply and WAM, counter attack. We’re looking for some kind of pattern in our interactions and just when we think things are a little predictable ( not so much so that we are bored) and stable, unother betrayal comes in from left field. So we fight back. That makes us the bad guy always so they can them further justify their abuse. Rage at me for 7 hours straight and then tell me I’m the one who is abusive. Yea, right, I don’t think so. But, didn’t you stay and fight back? Didn’t you say mean things? Didn’t you return his blows? Well yes, I did. That admittance is just enough for my brain to use the shame to get me to reconcile the threat. Is it something I’m doing wrong and if so, how can “we” change it so that the threat goes away? This is the only way I have found peace, is to assure my “brain” that the threat is not something I have done wrong (a mistake to avoild, like always falling into the same hole on the way to work), that it does have my attention and I am getting out of this threatening situation.

[Mustbeabetterway]

Ah, yes when things are a little predictable, then comes the monkey wrench, the fly in the ointment and all those other applicable sayings!   

Ysabel confronting my husband wasn't an effective way to have a conversation because the conversation would not stay focused on the issues at hand.  It would take twists and turns, circle back, pick up extra stuff on the way around... .  also he really enjoyed confrontation, so no point because I really hate confrontation.

I am making a mantra of I am not the bad guy... .I made mistakes... .but I am a good person who tried very hard... .

Detaching is difficult, but I am finding that with time and space, the sting is lessening.

Good discussion, people!  On my way to the beach for some communing with nature 

Peace and blessings, Mustbeabetterway

[WindofChange]

Mustbe, hope you enjoyed the beach! I went about a month ago and it was wonderful.

Re: guilt. After reading this thread, I've been thinking more about why I personally had so much guilt, and part of it is that I feel called to help others in any way I can (as most if not all of us do). I feel it's what I'm meant to do. For years I've been considering going back to school to get my MA in counseling (although after this train wreck of a relationship, I wonder if I can make my boundaries strong enough to be any good at it). I have work to do in this area with my T, obviously, but I feel that we as humans should always be willing to help others, even if it involves some sacrifice on our part. The problem is, of course, at what point does it go beyond what is healthy? And can I learn to recognize that? At what point have I done enough and then need to step back? It's really a struggle for me to get my head around. Is giving up and walking away being selfish? I get that I am probably somehow distorting the helping responsibility in my head (and of course, I was crazy in love with my ex, so that was the incentive to stay as well). I've read a lot on here about it, but it's a real mental struggle for me. I do feel less guilty as time goes on, and I recall a lot of ways that I idealized this relationship (but that's another piece of the puzzle that needs to be dealt with). I don't know why it's so damned hard for me to grasp this concept. Like I get logically that the relationship was unhealthy and I put up with far too much... .but then, kind of in the abstract, I think, but we're called to help others, to care about others. Shouldn't we want to alleviate another's suffering if we can?

Obviously many of us have similar issues where we want to help and save others. What is helping you to recognize that it's not your job to do that? Obviously therapy is one big thing that helps... .

[Mustbeabetterway]

Hi windsofchange I did enjoy the beach very much.  I went with one of my besties and we walked, sunned, then did a little shopping in town.  It was wonderful!

In my humble opinion, we should want to help another alleviate their own suffering.  The codependent part comes in when we try to alleviate their suffering all by ourselves   What if we are not able, or we don’t know how? or when someone expects us to help them when they are not helping themselves.  Then we should not feel guilty or ashamed of ourselves.  

I think the problem is when we take over someone’s problems and then feel guilty because we haven’t been able to solve the problems. Does that make sense?  

Recognizing that I am not perfect, or always up to being a tower of strength,   and that it’s ok not to be perfect or strong enough to endure everything thrown at me  is helping me to understand that rescuing is not my job.  Sometimes I am tired, sometimes I am sad, or angry, or hungry and need to take care of myself in order to be healthy.  Taking care of my own needs and consciously not feeling guilty about taking care of myself.  I don’t expect others to take care of me, although it’s nice to have help and support sometimes, it’s not their job, it’s primarily my job.

Mustbe

[WindofChange]

Hi windsofchange I did enjoy the beach very much.  I went with one of my besties and we walked, sunned, then did a little shopping in town.  It was wonderful!

In my humble opinion, we should want to help another alleviate their own suffering.  The codependent part comes in when we try to alleviate their suffering all by ourselves   What if we are not able, or we don’t know how? or when someone expects us to help them when they are not helping themselves.  Then we should not feel guilty or ashamed of ourselves. 

Good! I'm sure that beach day was much needed!

Good points, and thanks for your response. It should be a simple concept to grasp, but it's just a mental hurdle I need to get over. Very good to remember that we can't help someone who isn't willing to help themselves. I think I have been stuck feeling that he was so down that he just couldn't manage it and that I needed to step in and support him more until he was stronger. That point just never really came, so it was time to walk away.

[mama-wolf]

I'm finding guilt to be such a difficult hurdle to overcome.  It absolutely factors into my blaming myself for where we are, and has popped up in other ways, too... .

I am making a mantra of I am not the bad guy... .I made mistakes... .but I am a good person who tried very hard... .

Mustbe, I need to adopt the same mantra.  It's a good one, and exactly what I should be telling myself, too... .

Obviously many of us have similar issues where we want to help and save others. What is helping you to recognize that it's not your job to do that? Obviously therapy is one big thing that helps... .

The codependent part comes in when we try to alleviate their suffering all by ourselves   What if we are not able, or we don’t know how? or when someone expects us to help them when they are not helping themselves.  Then we should not feel guilty or ashamed of ourselves.  

I think I have been stuck feeling that he was so down that he just couldn't manage it and that I needed to step in and support him more until he was stronger.

This exchange is key, I think.  First, the point about our pwBPD needing to help themselves.  Not just being willing to do it in theory, but actually taking the action, holding themselves accountable and taking responsibility... .getting up off their rear ends and doing the work.  And second, the trap of waiting until they're stronger and more able to handle such a tough road.  In my experience with my stbx, there was always one more hurdle that pops up, one more setback, one more health issue, job issue, friend issue, etc. that got in the way.

So, I posted in another thread about going to dinner with my stbx and the kids late last week, and something I didn't address in that discussion was the guilt that I grappled with.  It took me a couple days to figure it out, but I did.

When my stbx brought up finances, I held strong because that has been such a big issue for us and it was glaringly obvious to me that I needed to maintain distance there.  But when she brought up the fact that she still hadn't figured out how to set up wi-fi at her new place yet after being there for a week, it was a major effort for me to refrain from offering to come by and do it for her.  I have typically taken care of that sort of thing for the past 15 years, and I had started to tell myself it would just be a nice thing to do. 

I kept myself from offering then and there, but it came to mind again a couple times in the next day or so, and thanks to this thread I finally realized it was my guilt playing a much more subtle game with me.  I was able to step back and recognize that she has multiple friends and family members to ask for help, that she never would ask for that help before because she insisted on relying on me almost entirely, and that if I were to offer in this case I would be setting myself for more of the same for years to come.

So I think that was more progress made on my part, but it doesn't really make it any easier to deal with this feeling when it comes up... .I definitely have to remind myself on a regular basis that I am not the bad guy.

mw

[Mustbeabetterway]

windsofchange, simple concept but difficult in practice.  I agree, even though I can explain it rationally, it's still difficult for me, too.  But, I am determined to get to a place where I am at peace and not troubled with the type of guilt we have been discussing.

Mama_wolf, good for you taking a step back before jumping in out of obligation or guilt.   It seems like it's in the day to day little victories that we will finally rid ourselves of this unreasonable guilt. 


Mustbeabetterway