Isolation from siblings?

[nenarox2]

So,

My mom has BPD and I have been boundary setting with her for some time. However, this last summer, she decided that she hates my brother's new fiance. So much so that she caused a huge family rift. She had everyone up in arms because she is so blatantly rude and unkind to this woman. My sister wanted me to confront my mother and let her have it. However, I just know what that does to her, she gets all "I wished you were all dead, I should have aborted all of you, I am going to kill myself" talk.  I could just see the writing on the wall, as she has been putting me in the white, not black as I am usually the outcast. Yet, when my siblings verbally abused her, I defended her against them. I am now isolated from the family with her being the only source of information and communication.  My issue is, she has been lying to me and pretending that she has nothing to do with my two siblings, but I see that they talk to her everyday. I see that she likes to keep us children pitted against each other, so that she can be the center of attention.  I feel like I understand BPD, but I do not understand why this woman would prefer that her children hate each other and rely on her. I suspect that it is fear of abandonment, but I am still hurting from this exchange. It seems like she is always working to keep each child away from the other, and only she is the person that they speak too. And my siblings are fine with this. They prefer not having a close family that puts the family above their own selfish needs. IDK, it is Christmas and my heart is broken at the lies, the behavior and the fact that I was duped again. She seems to be getting more manipulative, the more that I boundary set.

Nen

[Harri]

Hi nen.

It is not uncommon to have a BPD parent try to keep you isolated from siblings and other relatives.  My mom used to play my brother and I against each other all the time.  Unfortunately it worked for a long time. 

I suspect that it is fear of abandonment, but I am still hurting from this exchange.

This makes sense, the fear of abandonment part I mean.  It was a hurtful exchange. 

My sister wanted me to confront my mother and let her have it.

It is good you were able to recognize this and not involve yourself at your sisters request.  If she wants something said, she can say it herself.  Good job not allowing yourself to be triangulated.

As uncomfortable as it is, allow yourself to feel sad and grieve.  It is sad for everyone.

Your siblings are caught up in the dysfunction.  When things really came to a head between my mom and me, my brother and father were very much in her court.  They took her side and did their best to get me to change.  What helped me was recognizing that they were still caught in the same dysfunction I had been in and that they might never come to the same understanding of her behavior that I did.  It was hard, but I had to let go of the desire for them to see what I saw and to support me.   I am not sure what your feelings are surrounding this, other than sadness and grief, but lets see if we can talk about it if you want.  What are you hoping your siblings will do instead of going along with your mom?

In the meantime, just Be.  It is okay and healthy to grieve.   It is part of healing.  I am glad you reached out here and I hope you continue to do so.

 

[zachira]

It is so painful to be estranged from your family, especially at Christmas time. One of the most painful parts of becoming healthier and setting boundaries, is that certain people will be angry at you for for this, and will do everything to make things go back to the way they were before. Your mother and siblings are not ready to face all the pain they have been avoiding. You are doing this now, and your heart is broken by all the lies and betrayals. Be proud that you have the courage to do this, and others don't. Keep feeling your feelings, and post here. If you do this, with time you will be more at peace with how your family has treated you, though you always be hurt by how your close family members have ganged up on you, when you have done everything in your power to make things better for everyone. Keep us posted on how you are doing, and let us know how we can be the most helpful.

[nenarox2]

Wow, the first two responses reminded me of why I joined the BPD family so many years ago. I know why she isolates, I know that she loves to be the center of attention and I see the way my family is constantly triangulating. I knew my sister and my mother would put me in this situation, they needed the scape goat. I never realized that my sister might have it too. She was super physically abusive to me as a child. When I got too big to beat on, she started mentally abusing me. I just realized that she has major shopping addiction, which is a high risk behavior but there are other signs. I know I am the only one that is aware of and leaving the dysfunction. It just... .I still feel like she is out-manipulating my boundaries. I think the next boundary is no contact for a very long time. Easier said than done. I was her main source of abuse. I just do not allow for that when she tries to play that card... .

[Harri]

I know I am the only one that is aware of and leaving the dysfunction. It just... .I still feel like she is out-manipulating my boundaries. I think the next boundary is no contact for a very long time. Easier said than done. I was her main source of abuse. I just do not allow for that when she tries to play that card... .

What do you mean by her out manipulating your boundaries?

[zachira]

For a long time, I have been aware that both my mother and father and their extended family needed to scapegoat certain siblings and certain children to feel better about themselves. I have only recently become aware that my brother and sister need me to be the scapegoat. It is so painful to unravel the thread of dysfunctional relationships, and yet as we do, we are hopefully more able to see ourselves as amazing survivors that have not allowed ourselves or our lives to be defined by the dysfunctional family narratives.

[nenarox2]

At Harri,

Yesterday, I told her, I cannot have contact because I see that she is pitting my sister and I against each other and she started doing a guilt trip instead of the threatening behavior. When I first started setting boundaries, it was when she still did the ranting behavior, like nonstop yelling and crying and threatening to kill herself and wishing we were all dead and had never been born and constant psycho phone calls... .Now she knows I won't allow for the yelling and screaming. So now, she is using guilt. She knows what my hard boundaries are, but still tries too maintain sole communication with me and not allow me to speak to my siblings. She was saying "I only called and texted to say hello, I did not expect this level of anger from you". Although I have learned to never show anger, or any sort of emotion because she manipulates that too. If I am upset, it becomes about her, "Well I am sorry I effed you up so bad"... .Strange stuff like that. She knows I am willing to stop talking for a very long time.

Nen

[Harri]

Hi again nen.

I know it is hard and annoying and feels like a violation when she is doing those things.  The thing is, she can only manipulate you if you allow it to happen.  She will try to play the guilt card and that is just her being her (I am not saying what she is doing is okay, I'm just putting this in perspective).  This is how she deals with her difficult and uncomfortable feelings.  You/we do not have to be affected by it.

Your mom playing you and your sister against each other is a dysfunctional form of triangulation.  Your sister also tried this when she asked you to step in and say something to your mom rather than saying it herself.  You were smart enough to stay out of it.  You stepped to the neutral part or the center of the triangle.  We have a good article that describes it much better than I can:  Escaping Conflict and the Karpman Drama TriangleThere are different positions we can play on this triangle.  Your mom, when she plays the guilt card, is casting you in the role of persecutor , herself as victim and your sister as the rescuer.  Your sister asking you to say something to your mom was an attempt to put you in the role of rescuer as she saw herself as the victim.

The important thing is that we can choose not to play.  That may look different for different people.  For some it requires more work with boundaries.  For others it may mean limited contact and for others it may mean no contact. 

Does that make sense? 

[nenarox2]

Hey Harri!

It actually really does make sense. I see this triangulation all of the time and I understand what she is doing. Our logical brain does not always rule or hearts... .I am reading the url now. Thank you for sharing!

Nen

[nenarox2]

"He also observed that the participants become drawn in, even seduced, by the energy that the drama generates"- This is my sister and mother. It's like they cannot see that they perpetuate by harping on the situation.

My gosh Harri, you are right. I became the rescuer and my dBPD mother was the victim. Yet she started this whole situation because she dislikes my new SIL. What is hard is that my mother was her friend through work until she started dating my brother. Switching from white to black, she has been positively cruel to this woman. I keep thinking, although I know about BPD, why are her feelings more important than the family? I get that it is to force everyone to change to make her feel comfortable. But it sucks. No matter the situation, she makes it about her?

Another point is that I am always the rescuer. I am always the person with moral superiority until I leave the situation. Last summer, a similar situation happened and I just went to the center and left all of them to deal with each other. They needed a scapegoat and I could read the writing on the wall then... .

"We have felt obligated to do it. We have felt guilty for not doing it"... .<--- this is me... I am there all of the time and I think she realized that I won't feel bad for being a decent human. But I will feel bad if a victim is suffering. I think the solutions are clear and I have practiced them. I don't know why I stepped in again. I know to stay away... .But I think she was going insane because I was actually communicating with my siblings... .I have gone years without them... .

[nenarox2]

My next question... .Why does she have to control who speaks to whom?

[Harri]

I am glad the article helped nen.  That you can see how you have played into the drama is good.  I do not mean that you are a drama queen though.    A lot of us take on the role of rescuer and can alternate all around the triangle too.  I know I have.   It is what we know from how we grew up but you are aware and are actively working to change it!

Changing our role is hard.  We will feel uncomfortable and guilt and be sad and have fear when changing our behaviors.

I am not sure why she feels the need to play you against each other.  Insecurity?  Jealousy?  Fear you will team up against her?  It could be anything.  It has nothing to do with you though.  Her behaviors are driven by fear. 

Did you say she has gotten worse since you started setting boundaries?

How is your relationship with your soon to be SIL and brother?

[nenarox2]

Harri

She seems to have gotten more manipulative. She pretends that she is doing things out of kindness but it is really to be the center of attention. She no longer does the ranting that I grew up with. But she plays the victim a lot more and then slips the digs into conversation if I ever show any emotions. I am robot around her. She has gotten worse since my father died. It is like she has to be the center. When he was alive, she allowed for my siblings and I to speak. But he died in late 2015 and she has been a huge victim and slips in little pieces of information that would make you not want to speak to your sibling. Instead of outright freaking out, she will say, "I don't know why you would be talking to your sister, she says terrible things about you". It is more manipulative. That is all I can say.

My brother and I are on decent terms, but both of my brothers think us sisters are insane and so they avoid us. My dBPD mother says things to them as well.

Nen

[Harri]

Instead of outright freaking out, she will say, "I don't know why you would be talking to your sister, she says terrible things about you". It is more manipulative. That is all I can say.

Oooh!  I hate that.  

My mother became more manipulative as she got older.  She raged less, but this was worse.  It is so hard to not take that kind of statement in but it can be done.  For me it helped to remind myself that my mother would say and do anything to keep her story going, whatever that story happened to be.  She's the victim?  Her statements would fit that.  She is afraid of my soon to be SIL taking my brother away from her?  All of a sudden, my stbSIL is a rotten person who has manipulative and evil parents and she has said nasty things about me.

Knowing how my mom was helped.  You also have to deal with the fact that your sister is buying into this.  Unfortunately there is not much you can do except to stay out of the drama, tend to your own reactions to what your mom says and stay in the center of the triangle.  Your sister has her own process to go through and gets to have her own thoughts, feelings and opinions... .no matter how wrong they may be!    You can't make her see by explaining or defending.  Doing so actually feeds into the drama and escalates it.

It is hard to deal with. 

[zachira]

Being told how others are talking about you and saying bad things can be one of the worst kinds of emotional abuse. I have learned over the years that many of the discussions my mother and siblings with BPD have claimed to have had with others about how terrible I am have not taken place the way they claim. Indeed there are people who actually like me that they claim do not like me at all.

[nenarox2]

I think what really stinks about the manipulative slips about what people think and say about you. I have sought men out that did similar things. I know now, that what others think and say about me is none of my business. But it is abuse and it is a sneaky form that creates insecurity.

Thanks Zachira.

[zachira]

Does it make sense that what others tell us about what was said is never quite accurate? We weren't there and don't really know how the discussion went down, or if there ever was a discussion of the nature described. Maybe one person listened, maybe did not agree, yet kept their mouth shut because it just was not worth saying what they felt because it would not be heard, and the other person would get angry that the other did not agree with them. Your relationship with a person is between you and them, and nobody else. I try to observe how each person interacts with me, and use that to determine how he/she feels about me.