Introduction: wildly traumatic events because of her BPD

[theuproar]

I'm not sure if introduction posts are ok, but I couldn't find anything advising against it.  

My romantic partner of over 2 years has (I believe) BPD.  I work in the mental health field and this is the conclusion that I've come to, as well as my therapist.  She refuses to be diagnosed or treated (typical of the disorder, from what I understand, but she also grew up in residential psych care, and it's possible that it's already taken place), so I take all the steps that I possibly can to help her manage her emotions.  

We have been through some wildly traumatic events because of her BPD, and our day-to-day relationship is easily the most difficult thing I've ever had to navigate, far worse than any of the things I've personally been through that might seem worse from the outside looking in.  At this point, I'm very overwhelmed and starting to become bitter.  That underlying venom just feeds into her already-existing negativity and nothing ever feels "right".  The splitting kills me, too.  

I'd like to learn more about things that I can do to improve our relationship, because I love this person more than anyone or anything I've ever had.  If I have to leave for my own safety/sanity at some point, I'd like to at least say that I did everything in my power to make it work.  That said, I look forward to learning from you guys and getting the support I very desperately need.

[RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING]

RELATIONSHIP PROBLEM SOLVING This is a high level discussion board for solving ongoing, day-to-day relationship conflicts. Members are welcomed to express frustration but must seek constructive solutions to problems. This is not a place for relationship "stay" or "leave" discussions. Please read the specific guidelines for this group.

[Ozzie101]

Hello, theuproar!   Welcome!

Introduction posts are absolutely OK. They're even encouraged.

We're a supportive group here and you'll find lots of fellow members who can understand what you're going through and can have tools and advice to help you deal with things. Please feel free to also read and post in other members' threads. That's a great way to learn and support each other.

You say you'd like to learn about things you can do to improve the relationship. There are a lot of tools here that can be helpful. If you had to point to one area of the relationship that's most problematic, that you feel is most in need of being addressed, what would that be?

[once removed]

hi theuproar, id like to join Ozzie101 and say

im glad you reached out!

it sounds like the relationship is taking a toll, and getting harder on you, but that youd like to give it your best shot. experts will tell you that a strong support system is critical, and that the tools here can make a real difference.

what are some of the primary sources of conflict in your relationship right now?

[theuproar]

Thank you so much for responding quickly.

There are layers and layers to this onion, but I think the thing that I´ve had the most trouble with, now and historically, is how she treats me compared to others.  One of the reasons that I fell in love with her is because of how big her heart is and how she treated other partners and friends (we were originally in an open relationship).  After we became more official, though, she started to treat me horribly.  I couldn´t do anything right, she was constantly extremely angry, and the causes for her anger were unpredictable and strange (I mistook slices of bologna for salami, I painted something wrong, there was a spot on a dish, etc... .I mean really bizarre stuff).  

It´s hard to feel like the relationship is solid and healthy when she is sweet, inviting, and open with everyone else and deeply hurtful and disrespectful to me.  But that, of course, is episodic.  After an intense rage episode, where she´ll tear me down for hours, she´ll profess her intense love for me and gaslight me for ever questioning the integrity of our bond.  That is incredibly hard to make sense of, but I think she really, really does cherish me in the way she claims, although it´s interspersed with anger like I´ve never seen.  I grew up in a household with severe mental illness issues, joined a gang in my 20s, and now work with emotionally disturbed high school kids, and I´ve still never seen anything like it.  

This doesn´t include her constant lying, bad-mouthing me, other verbal abuse, physical abuse, irresponsibility with money, not being able to hold a job or work more than a few days a week, etc.  She seems to be self-aware of her condition, on some level, because she has a very clear blueprint on how to deal with her anger (lays it out in steps) and claims that I´m not a special case, insofar that she treats all of her partners like this.

I just want to help her heal and find happiness.  

[Harri]

Hi and welcome.

I think the thing that I´ve had the most trouble with, now and historically, is how she treats me compared to others.

pwBPD (people with BPD) have trouble with emotional regulation in intimate relationships.  The closer or more comfortable the relationship, the more dysfunctional their behavior can become.

I am not excusing what she does, but simply offering an explanation.  Being in your position is very difficult and it hurts. 

When she gets like this, what do you do?  Can you describe a situation for us.  We have many tools and strategies here that can help improve things, at least for you, so a few more details will help.  Improving your relationship is a good goal and we have seen several take a good turn.   

[theuproar]

Well, I've got some anxiety problems, so I usually panic, although that's gotten much better now that I'm being slowly desensitized to her behavior. 

An example would be the other night.  She gets furious when I fall asleep while we are watching a movie, and I fell asleep.  I pointed out that she becomes upset when this happens and she lost it.  Told me to F myself and stay away from her.  I followed her into the bedroom and she verbally abused me over and over.  I didn't apologize for pointing out her behavior, but I did apologize for upsetting her and told her I love her (validation).  This caused things to escalate because she often doesn't like hearing I love you if she didn't initiate the exchange first, especially when she is upset. 

I should have left her alone, I'm assuming, but it is hard to see a loved one so angry with me and not do something about it.

[415]

same here.  my therapist mentioned that i'm further stressed because i'm trying to find rationality in why my wife would behave like this, but her behaviour is not rational so you just go in circles with your thinking.  My wife had back pain so every so often she'd get out of bed to lay on the floor for some relief.  One night while we were watching tv in bed she got out of bed and started laying out a blanket on the floor.  Of course i knew that she was in pain and was just going to lay there for a bit, which is perfectly fine.  She lays down and says "are you mad?".   I said "no... .what would i be mad at?"  She says "well i know that you get mad if i sleep on the floor".  I said "what are you talking about... .i've never been mad... .I know that you are in pain and that you are laying on the floor to get relief".   That's probably been our main source of conflict for 11 years, where she DECIDES what i think, then resents me for thinking it, when i've never thought it.   I've been accused of checking out other woman, when my response is often "who are you even talking about, i'm not looking at anyone?"

[theuproar]

I'm very interested in strategies to manage the everyday friction, because I'm paradoxically much better at handling the real crises.  She's broken my hand in a door and attempted suicide a couple of times, but it's been a long time since stuff like that has occurred. 

[Harri]

Anxiety is a bear to deal with.    Getting a handle on that will help you a lot in terms of being able to respond rather than react when dealing with these day to day events.  

As you said, following her was not the best move.  Generally, once a pwBPD becomes dysregulated, there is little reasoning with them or being heard and the best thing to do is give them space and time to self-soothe.  This is very hard to do when also dealing with our own anxiety so i understand.  It is also common to want to explain and justify ourself but that too is not advised as it often comes across as invalidating.  A lot of times what we say in an effort to validate them comes off the opposite way and only inflames the situation.  

I should have left her alone, I'm assuming, but it is hard to see a loved one so angry with me and not do something about it.

It is hard.  I get the urge to want to straighten things out... .boy do I get that!  What we do instinctively often just makes things worse though.   NOne of this is intuitive so don't worry.  We do have tools that you can use every day that will help.  One of the easiest ones to use is Don't JADE JADE stands for justify, attack, defend, explain.  I will explain something once and then that is it.  Anything after that just escalates the situation and leads to circular arguments.  Also, the more we deny something or try to explain and defend it, the more guilty we look.    

See if this applies to you and we can talk more about it.  We have many more tools listed in the pull down menu at the top of the page too.  

[theuproar]

It is also common to want to explain and justify ourself but that too is not advised as it often comes across as invalidating.  A lot of times what we say in an effort to validate them comes off the opposite way and only inflames the situation. 
It is hard.  I get the urge to want to straighten things out... .boy do I get that!  What we do instinctively often just makes things worse though.   NOne of this is intuitive so don't worry.  We do have tools that you can use every day that will help.  One of the easiest ones to use is Don't JADE JADE stands for justify, attack, defend, explain.  I will explain something once and then that is it.  Anything after that just escalates the situation and leads to circular arguments.  Also, the more we deny something or try to explain and defend it, the more guilty we look.  

This does apply, for sure.  Any time that I try to justify, explain, attack, defend, etc. it´s always seen as invalidating and her anger will skyrocket (don´t know how that´s even possible, but it does).  She will even vocalize ¨you´re invalidating my feelings¨, etc., when that´s not what I´m doing at all.  I´m just trying to defend myself against wildly untrue accusations because they are sometimes extremely hurtful.  I get accused of patently false things and told I did things that I absolutely haven´t almost daily.   

[415]

I´m just trying to defend myself against wildly untrue accusations because they are sometimes extremely hurtful.  I get accused of patently false things and told I did things that I absolutely haven´t almost daily.

That's frustrating.  I had that a lot.  I always said it's like trying to build a sandcastle on the beach and every time you make progress a wave comes in and tears it back down and you have to start again.

[Harri]

She will even vocalize ¨you´re invalidating my feelings¨, etc., when that´s not what I´m doing at all.

 Of course you do not intend to invalidate her feelings.  None of us do.  Our instinct is to explain, defend etc.  Doing that though will just feel the insecurity, anxiety fear or anger of the other person.  pwBPD don't process things the same way and sometimes what we think of as validating is the opposite.  Example:  pwBPD is upset and says "you don't love me" and we, instinctively reply "I do love you"... .what you say may be true and your intention is to reassure but it invalidates her feelings.  A better response would be "it must hurt to think I don't love you.  I would not like feeling like that either."  You are not saying she is correct but rather validating the feeling she is expressing

Validation can be tricky.  Sometimes it is easier to think of it from the other direction:  Don't be invalidating.  Not invalidating combined with Don't Jade can really change things for you and might open a healthier channel to communication.  

I´m just trying to defend myself against wildly untrue accusations because they are sometimes extremely hurtful.

I get it.  Can you see how what she says, even though directed at you, is really about her, her fears, insecurities and anxieties?  I am not saying she is right in saying the things she says because I do not believe that at all.  I do know that BPD is about emotional dysregulation and as such, chances are she is not really even seeing you given her heightened emotions.  

Does that make sense?  Can you think of ways you have unintentionally invalidated her?  Maybe we can look at some examples?

[theuproar]

Does that make sense?  Can you think of ways you have unintentionally invalidated her?  Maybe we can look at some examples?

I can think of a lot.  The whole thought process that gets her there is so distorted, though, that it is hard to provide validation sometimes. 

For example, yesterday I had a tattoo appointment at 12:30 and I have had that appointment for months.  She knew about it for months.  We talked about it.  When the day came, though, she became furiously upset that I was going to this appointment, which I could not cancel, instead of taking her to a dinosaur exhibit for her birthday (keep in mind that her birthday was not for another 5 days, and I spent $2000 to take her on a cruise, throw a surprise party, and meet up with friends for bingo... .  but F me, right?).  She laid in the closet of our old house and cried for 4 hours, fully blaming me.

I offered to fix it by taking her the next day and suggested that she find a friend to go with.  She yelled at me to not attempt to fix it and said some really, really, really horribly hurtful things.  I told her that she was being unfair, in a very calm tone.  I defended myself by reminding her that this appointment had money on the line and I could not ethically (because it is an inconvenience to the artist) cancel, nor could I afford to lose $200.  This, she felt, invalidated her completely bizarre and distorted idea (and I say that with love; she really is the most amazing human I've ever met) that I was choosing something else over her. 

She later messaged me from work and said, "I love you," and that she was sorry she yelled, but still refused to admit that her exaggerated feelings/reaction was just that - exaggerated.

I can see, from a very distorted perspective, how this could be invalidating.  What can I do better next time?  It is so very hard to sit there and take that level of verbal abuse without getting mad myself.  We later had the surprise birthday party for her (she seriously almost fainted because we pulled it off so well) and she just glowed all night.  It warmed my heart!  She told me she loved me 1000 times over the course of the night and was amazingly sweet, but still insisted that I had wronged her earlier.  You could almost literally physically feel the hate in her voice, even though her words were calm and sweet. 

When she got to that point, where she was being kind, I broke down crying and cried all the way home, which upset her all over again.  It was such a nightmare to stomach that level of abuse all day.  I cried because it had finally sort of worked out, but also because it just does not make sense and hurts so much.

[Red5]

I couldn´t do anything right, she was constantly extremely angry, and the causes for her anger were unpredictable and strange (I mistook slices of bologna for salami, I painted something wrong, there was a spot on a dish, etc... .I mean really bizarre stuff).

Oh' Man!

I can sure relate to this!

… never saw it coming, most times ; (

I have said to others in the families (&foo)… "C" and I cannot even change a lightbulb together without getting into a huge argument"... .

Keep Posting theuproar,

Red5

[stolencrumbs]

Hi uproar,

This kind of scene is really familiar for me, especially the accusation that you're choosing something else over her. It's tough. And in the moment, once things have gone downhill, validation doesn't seem to help much. It's a tool better suited for calm times, where you are more likely to be heard. But in reading your story, this struck me as a good target for validation.

This, she felt, invalidated her completely bizarre and distorted idea (and I say that with love; she really is the most amazing human I've ever met) that I was choosing something else over her.

She felt like you were choosing the tattoo over her. You think this is bizarre and distorted and you attempted to defend your decision to keep the appointment. Here's the thing. You did choose to keep that appointment over doing something with her. You have a justification for doing so (a good one, I think), and can explain why you are doing it, but it is true that you are choosing to do that, right? You can validate that. It is true, and it hurts her. You can acknowledge that. If she is like my wife, she feels like some money and a tattoo is more important to you than she is--that she isn't worth that to you. Yes, that is distorted, and that is likely a projection of how she feels about herself, but that feeling is real for her. You don't have to agree that that's an accurate reflection of how you feel, or that you shouldn't have kept the appointment. You can acknowledge the choice you made and how she felt without doing that. I know for me it was really hard to not add in my justification or defense, but that pretty much erased any of the validation for my wife. Anyway, just some thoughts on what you might be able to validate here.

[theuproar]

Hi uproar,

This kind of scene is really familiar for me, especially the accusation that you're choosing something else over her. It's tough. And in the moment, once things have gone downhill, validation doesn't seem to help much. It's a tool better suited for calm times, where you are more likely to be heard. But in reading your story, this struck me as a good target for validation.

She felt like you were choosing the tattoo over her. You think this is bizarre and distorted and you attempted to defend your decision to keep the appointment. Here's the thing. You did choose to keep that appointment over doing something with her. You have a justification for doing so (a good one, I think), and can explain why you are doing it, but it is true that you are choosing to do that, right? You can validate that. It is true, and it hurts her. You can acknowledge that. If she is like my wife, she feels like some money and a tattoo is more important to you than she is--that she isn't worth that to you. Yes, that is distorted, and that is likely a projection of how she feels about herself, but that feeling is real for her. You don't have to agree that that's an accurate reflection of how you feel, or that you shouldn't have kept the appointment. You can acknowledge the choice you made and how she felt without doing that. I know for me it was really hard to not add in my justification or defense, but that pretty much erased any of the validation for my wife. Anyway, just some thoughts on what you might be able to validate here.

I hear what you're saying, of course.  And I understand those to be her feelings and thought processes because I see it almost daily.  However, it's still a distortion.  The truth is that you don't cancel appointments last-minute, especially those that had previously been talked about.  Everyone was aware.  We had time to do any and all of the things that she wanted to do, and I feel massively underappreciated when all of the other things I did for her are ignored.  I swear I'm not being combative; just telling you my opinion and thought process. 

And when someone is screaming at you, insulting you to your core, and doggedly putting you down with no end in sight, how do you justify that with any kind of validation?  Things are not as black-and-white as she thinks they are.  I did NOT choose anything over her, and in fact almost 100% of my life is me choosing her over everything - my son, my job, my hobbies, my friends. 

The constant abuse is so overwhelming.  Just this morning, she asked to borrow the car (which was a massive inconvenience for me) and I said ok.  She said she had some things to do.  So as her partner and someone who loves her and is interested in what she does, I asked her, "What do you have going on today?"  Her response?  "You're so f-ing nosy.  What do I have to do?  How about your mind your f-ing business?"

Then, not even 2 minutes later, she's happy and tells me she loves me "soo much".  How do you deal with that?

[Red5]

… cars,

It was sometime last year, don't remember the exact date right now, I took the day off to help my wife through an out patient surgery… we had a few things to do that morning, so off we went, somewhere in there she became dysregulated, and a fight ensued, she tried to "drop me off" (get out she said)… up town, I said _no_, you will take me back home… so she did, driving erratically, even recklessly… and when I opened the door to get out, she almost backed right over me… ugh ; (

The "car"… a brand new Jeep GC, I purchased _just for her_, .I make the payments, pay the insurance, maintenance etc', so I was "repaid" with behaviors such as this… nice ; (

I do feel your pain, and angst…

I will add, most times, almost everytime… there is _never_ any "talking about it"… working through it, no validation, explanation for the "non"… its never resolved, fixed, or ever spoken of again… as if it never happened… which drives me nuts…

… caveat… if I were to bring 'it' up, for resolution, it will be turned on its head, spun around, and the fault will be placed squarely on my head… so I don't go there,

Red5

[stolencrumbs]

I hear what you're saying, of course.  And I understand those to be her feelings and thought processes because I see it almost daily.  However, it's still a distortion.  The truth is that you don't cancel appointments last-minute, especially those that had previously been talked about.  Everyone was aware.  We had time to do any and all of the things that she wanted to do, and I feel massively underappreciated when all of the other things I did for her are ignored.  I swear I'm not being combative; just telling you my opinion and thought process. 

And when someone is screaming at you, insulting you to your core, and doggedly putting you down with no end in sight, how do you justify that with any kind of validation?  Things are not as black-and-white as she thinks they are.  I did NOT choose anything over her, and in fact almost 100% of my life is me choosing her over everything - my son, my job, my hobbies, my friends. 

The constant abuse is so overwhelming.  Just this morning, she asked to borrow the car (which was a massive inconvenience for me) and I said ok.  She said she had some things to do.  So as her partner and someone who loves her and is interested in what she does, I asked her, "What do you have going on today?"  Her response?  "You're so f-ing nosy.  What do I have to do?  How about your mind your f-ing business?"

Then, not even 2 minutes later, she's happy and tells me she loves me "soo much".  How do you deal with that?

Believe me, I get where you're coming from. I feel the same way. My life is about choosing my wife over other things, and still I get accused of choosing other things over her. It is maddening. And I get feeling underappreciated, and like all of the things you do don't count or don't matter. And the abuse is definitely not okay, and in the middle of that is probably not the best time to try validation.

I understand those to be her feelings and thought processes because I see it almost daily.

Have you told her this? That you understand how she feels, in a way that she feels heard, and then stopped with that? The rest of that first paragraph is an explanation for why she shouldn't feel that way. That is what is likely to be invalidating for her. I don't think you're being combative (and I'm not trying to be combative either, I promise). I think your explanations make perfect sense, and how you feel really resonates with me. I definitely get wanting her to understand your point of view. But what you are explaining is why you chose to do this instead of doing something with her, and why it's okay to do that. And it is okay. It's not wrong to make that choice. You can't and shouldn't make every choice about her. It is perfectly fine to do the thing you were planning on doing. She is not fine with it. Validation is about acknowledging that, without going on to explain to her why she should be fine with it.

I completely get not wanting to do this, and not feeling like doing this, and feeling like it is unfair that you should have to do this. We need validation, too, and that is hard to come by in these relationships. And validation isn't going to fix everything, and it's not excusing or justifying anything she did. And yes, there are lots of distortions and black/white thinking. But there is also the reality of how she feels, and validating that reality can help.

[theuproar]

Have you told her this? That you understand how she feels, in a way that she feels heard, and then stopped with that?

Yes.  It's a mixed bag on how that's received.  I'll either watch her deflate and relax, or she'll accuse me of "just saying that" or being condescending, or perhaps implying that she's crazy.  It's so hard to navigate.  I'm becoming angry and dead inside. 

I spoke with her mom yesterday, and as her mom gets to know me better and trusts me, she is telling me more and more about "I's" childhood.  She was on mandated psych medication at age 7.  If the school (or whatever) found out she wasn't taking the meds, they came to the house to administer it under the threat of her being taken away by CPS.  Her mom gave her up to the state at 12 or 13 because she had become so violent that it was both literally and metaphorically destroying their house.  Something happened to her around age 7, as well, that her mom still won't tell me about but it was apparently frighteningly bad.  I think it has something to do with her biological father, but neither will tell me (and I don't press the issue).  "I" claims to not know or remember her father at all, but her mom said "she remembers him and knows exactly (who the f) he is".  That sounds ominous.  Her mom also explained that a lot of this behavior comes from an intense sense of embarrassment and shame (consistent with the disorder), but the thing is that she doesn't have to be embarrassed of anything around me.  Nothing at all.  Now, all the stories I hear from her about her sister being violent and turning to prostitution at a young age and all this other stuff are starting to sound more like her own story, but she's projecting it onto the sister so she doesn't have to experience the shame.  Just a theory.

In summary, I know these things come from trauma, but I do not deserve trauma in return.  It is wrong.

[stolencrumbs]

Yes.  It's a mixed bag on how that's received.  I'll either watch her deflate and relax, or she'll accuse me of "just saying that" or being condescending, or perhaps implying that she's crazy.  It's so hard to navigate.  I'm becoming angry and dead inside.

This is my experience, too. I am often told I am being patronizing. I struggle with it sounding sincere, and not forced or scripted. There's often a voice in my head that is saying "You really feel like this over this? Really?" I'm sure that comes through. The best I can do is to try to get in touch with times when I've felt anything like what my wife is feeling. So I might think about a time when someone did something that made me feel like I wasn't a priority when I thought I should've been. Then I try to describe how that feels (not the actual situation, just the feeling. Making a comparison usually goes badly. I think of it like method acting. Use your own experience to get in the right state of mind.) and ask if that's how she's feeling. Still, it doesn't always work. But if it works some of the time, that's something.

In summary, I know these things come from trauma, but I do not deserve trauma in return.  It is wrong.

I agree. And your anger is completely understandable. Take care of yourself. Keep posting.

[theuproar]

I did an ok-ish job of validating her feelings this morning, although it was still an illogical nightmare in my head.

I've been feeling incredibly insecure about our relationship lately (I always do on some level, and for obvious reasons) because her behavior has been much, much more cold and cruel than usual.  We recently bought a house together and she has gotten worse since the move.  I've heard that changes in routine can affect a pwBPD, so maybe that's it. 

She woke up and was very sweetly and gently reaching for a kiss, so I kissed her.  It was wonderful.  She was exuding warmth.  I then said "I love you" and she did not respond.  Because I've been anxious about us lately, more than usual, I asked, "Do you love me?"  She instantly shot me cold, angry eyes and said, "What do you think?" and her anger started to visibly elevate.  I told her that I was feeling a little insecure this morning and just wanted some reassurance.  She refused to give me reassurance and started to berate me for asking... .  "I've told you not to do this before and you won't listen".  Rather than argue, though, I said "It must be frustrating for me to do something that you've already asked me not to".  She instantly deflated and started talking about one of our dogs. 

I've also had some fairly well-supported suspicions that she's been unfaithful lately (several people telling me that they thought we were in a non-monogamous relationship, phone calls and texts to other men late at night, gets furious if I ask what she's doing, her male friends acting very bizarre toward me suddenly, etc.), so I asked her, "Hey, am I still the only one?"  She got furious all over again (even though she demands I reassure her for the same thing... .  and I've never even seriously thought about being unfaithful, although I've caught her in very suspect situations many times... .  she even accused me of sleeping with another man on Saturday night because the toothpaste on my mouth apparently looked like semen to her).  She accused me of "ruining every morning" like this, which is not true.  I haven't vocalized my insecurities, out of fear, in months.  I then said, "I'm sorry.  This must be frustrating again."  It calmed her down again pretty quick.

I know I need to work on myself, but did I do ok in validating her feelings, despite the imbalance in support/affection/etc.?